Hey guys, I have a rogue at my table who is dual wielding and likes to huck daggers. They want to take the Sharpshooter feat and while I found out thrown weapons technically only apply to the first two benefits of sharpshooter, the third benefit would not as it specifically says it needs to be an attack WITH a ranged weapon. Regardless I'm going to allow it as I don't see it breaking the game and it'll be fun for the Rogue.
My question is would they be able to apply Sharpshooter to both of the thrown daggers as the second throw would be their bonus action, or does that not matter since it's still an attack..?
Yes, if you allow the third benefit to work for thrown weapons then the bonus action Two-Weapon Fighting attack would be able to benefit from the -5 attack and +10 damage too. It doesn't say it can only be done once per round.
Do you really want to give your Rogue +10 or even +20 more damage every turn, though? Rogues do insane amounts of damage as it is. Might want to consider how that affects your game balance.
Hey guys, I have a rogue at my table who is dual wielding and likes to huck daggers. They want to take the Sharpshooter feat and while I found out thrown weapons technically only apply to the first two benefits of sharpshooter, the third benefit would not as it specifically says it needs to be an attack WITH a ranged weapon. Regardless I'm going to allow it as I don't see it breaking the game and it'll be fun for the Rogue.
My question is would they be able to apply Sharpshooter to both of the thrown daggers as the second throw would be their bonus action, or does that not matter since it's still an attack..?
Thanks!
My reading is that all of the bullets require ranged weapons as opposed to thrown weapons, at least off of here. As such, I don't see a reason that you couldn't rule that all points work as long as you consider the balance. Something that you could say is that only the action attack can benefit for whatever reason that you want (or only on the bonus action attack, the -5 is because of the throwing motion being hampered by the other attack, for instance). Perhaps sneak attack can't work with sharpshooter since -5 is sometimes the number given for disadvantage, which would cancel out the advantage required for sneak attack. Whatever you decide, consider what it will mean for your rogue AND the rest of the party.
My reading is that all of the bullets require ranged weapons as opposed to thrown weapons, at least off of here.
No, they don't. The first two bullets simply say "ranged weapon attack," and you can make a ranged weapon attack with a melee weapon by throwing it. The final point says "make an attack with a ranged weapon" which limits it to ranged weapons.
My reading is that all of the bullets require ranged weapons as opposed to thrown weapons, at least off of here.
No, they don't. The first two bullets simply say "ranged weapon attack," and you can make a ranged weapon attack with a melee weapon by throwing it. The final point says "make an attack with a ranged weapon" which limits it to ranged weapons.
I stand corrected on that point. I'll stand by the analysis, modifying for the correction though.
The +10 damage from Sharpshooter isn't useful to a rogue unless they've already used Sneak Attack and also have advantage on the attack.
Why do you say that? Seems pretty darn useful to me.
The -5 to hit. A rogue generates most of their damage from landing sneak attack. An extra +10 damage is about equal to 3d6. Is it worth it for a rogue to lose out on 3d6, 4d6, 5d6, even 10d6 damage just to add a measly +10 to damage? Generally, in my experience, no. It is much better for the rogue to land their sneak attack first and then use sharpshooter on subsequent shots. I have a level 16 character, 11 rogue, 5 bladelock who took the sharpshooter feat mostly for the range and cover benefits. However, if he lands sneak attack on his first attack then he often uses sharpshooter (-5/+10) on the next one. Sneak attack is worth twice the damage of sharpshooter so it is more important to land that sneak attack than try to boost damage moderately at the cost of possibly missing.
True, but it's generally very easy for a rogue to get advantage which would offset the -5. And if he's throwing daggers, he gets two chances even without advantage; no reason not to take that -5 for a potential extra 10 damage on top of Sneak Attack. With two rolls he still has a very good chance of hitting, and only needs to hit with one of the two attacks.
True, but it's generally very easy for a rogue to get advantage which would offset the -5. And if he's throwing daggers, he gets two chances even without advantage; no reason not to take that -5 for a potential extra 10 damage on top of Sneak Attack. With two rolls he still has a very good chance of hitting, and only needs to hit with one of the two attacks.
Speaking as a rogue who tried this ... missing twice due to trying to use sharpshooter to be greedy with damage is very irritating. Also, in many cases, rogues will only have one attack AND even with advantage the -5 to hit significantly reduces the chances to hit.
Consider needing to roll a 10 to hit - pretty typical number. With advantage the odds of hitting are about 80%. Add sharpshooter, with a -5 and your odds of hitting with advantage just dropped to about 50%.
So lets work out which does more damage if you have a 6d6 sneak attack and a d8 weapon. On average this is 4.5 + 21 = 25.5, with sharpshooter 35.5.
35.5 * 0.5 = 17.75 damage on average
25.5 * 0.8 = 20.4 damage on average
So, in this typical case, NOT using sharpshooter and hitting more often does more damage. The question then becomes what to hit number do I need to make using the -5/+10 from sharpshooter do more damage on average? This happens with a to hit number required of about 8 (with advantage) ... without advantage it is actually down around 2 ... meaning that it NEVER makes sense to use sharpshooter on a rogue with a 6d6 sneak attack riding on it.
In practice, a to hit number of 8 before the -5 from sharpshooter only comes up against lower AC targets. (stat +5, proficiency +6 means a 19AC target in tier 4 to get an 8 to hit ... if you multiclassed fighter or ranger and picked up the archery fighting style this goes up to AC21) .... but that is at tier 4. At lower levels the to hit modifiers are much lower. In tier 2 it is more like +6 to +8 for AC 14 to 16 targets.
Why is this the case for a rogue but not for a battlemaster Xbow expert/sharpshooter? This is because the battlemaster only has a d6 base damage riding on each shot and they will typically have more shots. They have a much better threshold where using sharpshooter makes sense. For a rogue with d8+6d6 damage riding on the attack it almost never makes sense to use the sharpshooter -5/+10. If the rogue has the extra attack feature from multiclassing, or a bonus action attack from Xbow expert then it may make sense to use sharpshooter on the second attack if the sneak attack was already used on the first.
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Hey guys, I have a rogue at my table who is dual wielding and likes to huck daggers. They want to take the Sharpshooter feat and while I found out thrown weapons technically only apply to the first two benefits of sharpshooter, the third benefit would not as it specifically says it needs to be an attack WITH a ranged weapon. Regardless I'm going to allow it as I don't see it breaking the game and it'll be fun for the Rogue.
My question is would they be able to apply Sharpshooter to both of the thrown daggers as the second throw would be their bonus action, or does that not matter since it's still an attack..?
Thanks!
Yes, if you allow the third benefit to work for thrown weapons then the bonus action Two-Weapon Fighting attack would be able to benefit from the -5 attack and +10 damage too. It doesn't say it can only be done once per round.
Do you really want to give your Rogue +10 or even +20 more damage every turn, though? Rogues do insane amounts of damage as it is. Might want to consider how that affects your game balance.
The +10 damage from Sharpshooter isn't useful to a rogue unless they've already used Sneak Attack and also have advantage on the attack.
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Why do you say that? Seems pretty darn useful to me.
My reading is that all of the bullets require ranged weapons as opposed to thrown weapons, at least off of here. As such, I don't see a reason that you couldn't rule that all points work as long as you consider the balance. Something that you could say is that only the action attack can benefit for whatever reason that you want (or only on the bonus action attack, the -5 is because of the throwing motion being hampered by the other attack, for instance). Perhaps sneak attack can't work with sharpshooter since -5 is sometimes the number given for disadvantage, which would cancel out the advantage required for sneak attack. Whatever you decide, consider what it will mean for your rogue AND the rest of the party.
No, they don't. The first two bullets simply say "ranged weapon attack," and you can make a ranged weapon attack with a melee weapon by throwing it. The final point says "make an attack with a ranged weapon" which limits it to ranged weapons.
I stand corrected on that point. I'll stand by the analysis, modifying for the correction though.
The -5 to hit. A rogue generates most of their damage from landing sneak attack. An extra +10 damage is about equal to 3d6. Is it worth it for a rogue to lose out on 3d6, 4d6, 5d6, even 10d6 damage just to add a measly +10 to damage? Generally, in my experience, no. It is much better for the rogue to land their sneak attack first and then use sharpshooter on subsequent shots. I have a level 16 character, 11 rogue, 5 bladelock who took the sharpshooter feat mostly for the range and cover benefits. However, if he lands sneak attack on his first attack then he often uses sharpshooter (-5/+10) on the next one. Sneak attack is worth twice the damage of sharpshooter so it is more important to land that sneak attack than try to boost damage moderately at the cost of possibly missing.
True, but it's generally very easy for a rogue to get advantage which would offset the -5. And if he's throwing daggers, he gets two chances even without advantage; no reason not to take that -5 for a potential extra 10 damage on top of Sneak Attack. With two rolls he still has a very good chance of hitting, and only needs to hit with one of the two attacks.
Speaking as a rogue who tried this ... missing twice due to trying to use sharpshooter to be greedy with damage is very irritating. Also, in many cases, rogues will only have one attack AND even with advantage the -5 to hit significantly reduces the chances to hit.
Consider needing to roll a 10 to hit - pretty typical number. With advantage the odds of hitting are about 80%. Add sharpshooter, with a -5 and your odds of hitting with advantage just dropped to about 50%.
So lets work out which does more damage if you have a 6d6 sneak attack and a d8 weapon. On average this is 4.5 + 21 = 25.5, with sharpshooter 35.5.
35.5 * 0.5 = 17.75 damage on average
25.5 * 0.8 = 20.4 damage on average
So, in this typical case, NOT using sharpshooter and hitting more often does more damage. The question then becomes what to hit number do I need to make using the -5/+10 from sharpshooter do more damage on average? This happens with a to hit number required of about 8 (with advantage) ... without advantage it is actually down around 2 ... meaning that it NEVER makes sense to use sharpshooter on a rogue with a 6d6 sneak attack riding on it.
In practice, a to hit number of 8 before the -5 from sharpshooter only comes up against lower AC targets. (stat +5, proficiency +6 means a 19AC target in tier 4 to get an 8 to hit ... if you multiclassed fighter or ranger and picked up the archery fighting style this goes up to AC21) .... but that is at tier 4. At lower levels the to hit modifiers are much lower. In tier 2 it is more like +6 to +8 for AC 14 to 16 targets.
Why is this the case for a rogue but not for a battlemaster Xbow expert/sharpshooter? This is because the battlemaster only has a d6 base damage riding on each shot and they will typically have more shots. They have a much better threshold where using sharpshooter makes sense. For a rogue with d8+6d6 damage riding on the attack it almost never makes sense to use the sharpshooter -5/+10. If the rogue has the extra attack feature from multiclassing, or a bonus action attack from Xbow expert then it may make sense to use sharpshooter on the second attack if the sneak attack was already used on the first.