...with side jaunts in Traveller, Shadowrun, and a brief stint with The Morrow Project ).
Aaah.... 1e shadowrun. the lovely halcyon memories. :) I had one player, George, die 6 times in the same campaign - he was a meme before memes. Each death more ridiculous than the last, one of the most unlucky dice rollers I've ever met. I did the completely idiotic thing and swapped 400 progs (issues) (all in sequence, no missing issues) of 2000AD comic books for a full suite of SR books (they really did splat books well). I was entranced by the world building, and I remember absolutely loving their totally innovative damage system, although we immediately house ruled grenades to make them actually deadly.
I read the current rules are terrible... shrug, but its fine, there's more than enough good to engage with (tales from the loop, symbaroum, mouseguard, mutant year zero, and good ol' 5e d&d). Thanks for the memberries. ;)
Side conversation:
Want to talk about broken mechanics? Spell resist DC was the magic rating of the caster. Simple enough. But the DC to cast the spell was based on the level. So a mage with a 6 magic attribute could cast level 1 spells that were infinitely easier to cast than level 6 but were JUST as effective. I think there was one exception to these rules but no one took those spells.
One of my highschool buddies was forbidden from playing DnD. He could play ANYother RPG but his mother asked he not touch "that game". So rather than being warriors and mages in a fantasy setting, we were guns for hire, contract killers, and hackers in a cyberpunk one....
So... I’ll address the elephant in the room that someone let in:
”Hobby”
at what point is a hobby no longer a hobby? At the point you get PAID to do it: At that point it’s no longer a hobby. And, believe it or not, there are more people that get paid to play/DM D&D than just seen on the CR show.
many reasons for divides, arguments, people “needing to be right” is because the levels of game played by everyone varies, tables vary, experience levels vary, homebrews vary, etc etc etc.
obvious easy fix for that is for DnDBeyond to divide up the forums slightly, into categories of “newer players”, “intermediate players”, and “experienced players” and that will alleviate SOME of this.
at what point is a hobby no longer a hobby? At the point you get PAID to do it: At that point it’s no longer a hobby. And, believe it or not, there are more people that get paid to play/DM D&D than just seen on the CR show.
many reasons for divides, arguments, people “needing to be right” is because the levels of game played by everyone varies, tables vary, experience levels vary, homebrews vary, etc etc etc.
Two thoughts:
You can get paid for a Hobby and it still be a "hobby". I think it remains a Hobby until you are making enough money that having to give it up will impact your lifestyle. I get paid, for example, to manage a DnD club at a local teen center and while I am paid for my time, I consider it still a "hobby" in that it's not something that if I lost it I would see appreciable changes to my lifestyle. Mostly the money gets reinvested into DND stuffs.
Similarly I think that if I were to start up a DND night at a local pub, I would still consider it a "hobby" up to the point where I quit my day job because I was working enough nights of the week/ hours that my living expenses were covered. I'd still take it seriously; I'd approach it like a job (be on time, be respectful, follow up professionally). But it'd be a hobby. I've had friends do the same with Historical Re-enacting. It's a "Hobby" but they'll happily take money if you want them come put on a presentation at a historical society or library or school.
On the subject of splitting the forums, I think it's wiser to keep us grouped in the DM forum. There will always be varying levels of experience and commitment and I think as we banter around ideas of fixing problems with our players, or our plotlines or our game mechanics there is value in range of voices. A DM with a younger player group might benefit from others who are "relatively new" vs those of us who might have been playing with the same guys and gals since we were in our own teens. That is to say "For the last thirty years". I think of it much like the lunch table in the teacher's lounge: You've got people in their 60's breaking bread with those in their 20's. And we all perspectives on what works for our students.
Oh yes. By all means, let's split up the forums into "experience tiers".
Let's make the elitism, rampant self-importance, and unwarranted self-assumed authority worse. Let's separate out the people with the experience from the people trying to figure it out.
Say nothing of the fact that you're falling into the fallacy of more experience = better player/GM. While there is a tendency to that being true, there are howlingly obvious counter examples of that littering the forum, where people with self-proclaimed decades of experience spout blatant nonsense ( this is not unique to D&D ). There might be strong correlation, but there clearly isn't causality here.
Pile on the fact that there is no "right", beyond "right for your table". Tables vary by all the factors you mention, but the central divide is different gaming groups are trying to build different kinds of games. This is the byproduct of D&D ( most RPGs really ) not being one game, but being a general toolkit by which you can create many different kinds of games.
That's the annoying thing about the contingent which is "needing to be right": not that they want to build a particular style of game (great, go for it, if that's what works for your table), but the insistence that everyone else must comply with that style. Unless you've all agreed to play a particular style, in a particular way by social contract ( Adventurers League for example ), stop telling me how I should be running my table, and stop trying to strong-arm newer players into converting to the "one true way". By all means, tell us that, in your games ( which you run in such-and-such manner ), you've found that when you do X you get Y results. That's useful shared information which may be applicable to my table, and - who knows - maybe eventually people will naturally come around to your way of thinking if they see that your table is working well, and it's a style they think they'd enjoy. Lead by example, but get off the $!@$$ soapbox, and stop telling people how they should be running their game, because to do it any other way than your way is not "real" D&D.
Even in the professional "paid" circles, styles vary wildly. Is Critical Role the same as The Chain of Acheron the same as Acquisitions Incorporated? Is there a "professional standard" which needs to be reinforced, and the streams which don't adhere to it are not "real" D&D? I think an individual's response to that question tells you more about them that the "true" state of D&D.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Don't call for a roll if you aren't prepared for the consequences. You set up the insta-kill lava, you put the kid on the floating rock. You dangled the prospect of rescuing the kid in front of them.
Oh yes. By all means, let's split up the forums into "experience tiers".
Let's make the elitism, rampant self-importance, and unwarranted self-assumed authority worse. Let's separate out the people with the experience from the people trying to figure it out.
Say nothing of the fact that you're falling into the fallacy of more experience = better player/GM. While there is a tendency to that being true, there are howlingly obvious counter examples of that littering the forum, where people with self-proclaimed decades of experience spout blatant nonsense ( this is not unique to D&D ). There might be strong correlation, but there clearly isn't causality here.
Pile on the fact that there is no "right", beyond "right for your table". Tables vary by all the factors you mention, but the central divide is different gaming groups are trying to build different kinds of games. This is the byproduct of D&D ( most RPGs really ) not being one game, but being a general toolkit by which you can create many different kinds of games.
That's the annoying thing about the contingent which is "needing to be right": not that they want to build a particular style of game (great, go for it, if that's what works for your table), but the insistence that everyone else must comply with that style. Unless you've all agreed to play a particular style, in a particular way by social contract ( Adventurers League for example ), stop telling me how I should be running my table, and stop trying to strong-arm newer players into converting to the "one true way". By all means, tell us that, in your games ( which you run in such-and-such manner ), you've found that when you do X you get Y results. That's useful shared information which may be applicable to my table, and - who knows - maybe eventually people will naturally come around to your way of thinking if they see that your table is working well, and it's a style they think they'd enjoy. Lead by example, but get off the $!@$$ soapbox, and stop telling people how they should be running their game, because to do it any other way than your way is not "real" D&D.
Even in the professional "paid" circles, styles vary wildly. Is Critical Role the same as The Chain of Acheron the same as Acquisitions Incorporated? Is there a "professional standard" which needs to be reinforced, and the streams which don't adhere to it are not "real" D&D? I think an individual's response to that question tells you more about them that the "true" state of D&D.
There’s a lot of anger in here....
show me where I am on a soapbox telling you how to play?
So, while I’m “on this soapbox here” guess what. You can
still divide the forums... and SHOCKER people can still PICK AND CHOOSE... which forums they read. Post in. Etc.
WOW! It’s almost like... it’s optional... like... a “guideline” rather than rules.
This thread has gotten more and more derailed... I suspect it may be time to make some new threads about the specific sub-topics. Like a thread about "should we divide the forums?" and a thread about "which version of D&D is your favorite and why?" and so on...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Side conversation:
Want to talk about broken mechanics? Spell resist DC was the magic rating of the caster. Simple enough. But the DC to cast the spell was based on the level. So a mage with a 6 magic attribute could cast level 1 spells that were infinitely easier to cast than level 6 but were JUST as effective. I think there was one exception to these rules but no one took those spells.
One of my highschool buddies was forbidden from playing DnD. He could play ANYother RPG but his mother asked he not touch "that game". So rather than being warriors and mages in a fantasy setting, we were guns for hire, contract killers, and hackers in a cyberpunk one....
Not sure his mom came out ahead on that...
"Teller of tales, dreamer of dreams"
Tips, Tricks, Maps: Lantern Noir Presents
**Streams hosted at at twitch.tv/LaternNoir
So... I’ll address the elephant in the room that someone let in:
”Hobby”
at what point is a hobby no longer a hobby? At the point you get PAID to do it: At that point it’s no longer a hobby. And, believe it or not, there are more people that get paid to play/DM D&D than just seen on the CR show.
many reasons for divides, arguments, people “needing to be right” is because the levels of game played by everyone varies, tables vary, experience levels vary, homebrews vary, etc etc etc.
obvious easy fix for that is for DnDBeyond to divide up the forums slightly, into categories of “newer players”, “intermediate players”, and “experienced players” and that will alleviate SOME of this.
Blank
Two thoughts:
You can get paid for a Hobby and it still be a "hobby". I think it remains a Hobby until you are making enough money that having to give it up will impact your lifestyle. I get paid, for example, to manage a DnD club at a local teen center and while I am paid for my time, I consider it still a "hobby" in that it's not something that if I lost it I would see appreciable changes to my lifestyle. Mostly the money gets reinvested into DND stuffs.
Similarly I think that if I were to start up a DND night at a local pub, I would still consider it a "hobby" up to the point where I quit my day job because I was working enough nights of the week/ hours that my living expenses were covered. I'd still take it seriously; I'd approach it like a job (be on time, be respectful, follow up professionally). But it'd be a hobby. I've had friends do the same with Historical Re-enacting. It's a "Hobby" but they'll happily take money if you want them come put on a presentation at a historical society or library or school.
On the subject of splitting the forums, I think it's wiser to keep us grouped in the DM forum. There will always be varying levels of experience and commitment and I think as we banter around ideas of fixing problems with our players, or our plotlines or our game mechanics there is value in range of voices. A DM with a younger player group might benefit from others who are "relatively new" vs those of us who might have been playing with the same guys and gals since we were in our own teens. That is to say "For the last thirty years". I think of it much like the lunch table in the teacher's lounge: You've got people in their 60's breaking bread with those in their 20's. And we all perspectives on what works for our students.
"Teller of tales, dreamer of dreams"
Tips, Tricks, Maps: Lantern Noir Presents
**Streams hosted at at twitch.tv/LaternNoir
Oh yes. By all means, let's split up the forums into "experience tiers".
Let's make the elitism, rampant self-importance, and unwarranted self-assumed authority worse. Let's separate out the people with the experience from the people trying to figure it out.
Say nothing of the fact that you're falling into the fallacy of more experience = better player/GM. While there is a tendency to that being true, there are howlingly obvious counter examples of that littering the forum, where people with self-proclaimed decades of experience spout blatant nonsense ( this is not unique to D&D ). There might be strong correlation, but there clearly isn't causality here.
Pile on the fact that there is no "right", beyond "right for your table". Tables vary by all the factors you mention, but the central divide is different gaming groups are trying to build different kinds of games. This is the byproduct of D&D ( most RPGs really ) not being one game, but being a general toolkit by which you can create many different kinds of games.
That's the annoying thing about the contingent which is "needing to be right": not that they want to build a particular style of game (great, go for it, if that's what works for your table), but the insistence that everyone else must comply with that style. Unless you've all agreed to play a particular style, in a particular way by social contract ( Adventurers League for example ), stop telling me how I should be running my table, and stop trying to strong-arm newer players into converting to the "one true way". By all means, tell us that, in your games ( which you run in such-and-such manner ), you've found that when you do X you get Y results. That's useful shared information which may be applicable to my table, and - who knows - maybe eventually people will naturally come around to your way of thinking if they see that your table is working well, and it's a style they think they'd enjoy. Lead by example, but get off the $!@$$ soapbox, and stop telling people how they should be running their game, because to do it any other way than your way is not "real" D&D.
Even in the professional "paid" circles, styles vary wildly. Is Critical Role the same as The Chain of Acheron the same as Acquisitions Incorporated? Is there a "professional standard" which needs to be reinforced, and the streams which don't adhere to it are not "real" D&D? I think an individual's response to that question tells you more about them that the "true" state of D&D.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Don't call for a roll if you aren't prepared for the consequences. You set up the insta-kill lava, you put the kid on the floating rock. You dangled the prospect of rescuing the kid in front of them.
There’s a lot of anger in here....
show me where I am on a soapbox telling you how to play?
So, while I’m “on this soapbox here” guess what. You can
still divide the forums... and SHOCKER people can still PICK AND CHOOSE... which forums they read. Post in. Etc.
WOW! It’s almost like... it’s optional... like... a “guideline” rather than rules.
hypocrite.
Blank
This thread has gotten more and more derailed... I suspect it may be time to make some new threads about the specific sub-topics. Like a thread about "should we divide the forums?" and a thread about "which version of D&D is your favorite and why?" and so on...
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.