Ravenloft campaign; post Curse of Strahd. - Spoilers if you haven't beaten/played it I guess?
The party is 11th-level, and have defeated Strahd but I thought a Ravenloft campaign as a spin-off would be super fun, so here we are. A year has passed since they beat Strahd, and they get a letter from a man in Harmonia (Kartakass domain) called Vasili von Holtz who has expressed an interest in their tales of besting Strahd that he exclaims has spread across Ravenloft to the other domains.
The party never encountered Vasili during CoS, so I figured this could be a lot of fun. I made him the Meistersinger and proprietor of a local amphitheatre in the village where he asked the party to meet him to explain his research on freeing individuals from Ravenloft from the grips of the Dark Powers.
They agree to head back to his mansion in Harmonia to discuss these plans further, and the party settle down in his home and meet his two associates (the players who perished rolled new characters for this spin-off campaign) who will be accompanying the surviving two-members of the party from CoS on this journey. They're being sent into the mountains to a monastery that had once been the site of a collection of clerics who worshipped the Dark Powers themselves, and Vasili believes that would be the place to go looking.
During dinner, Vasili believed he needed trust to be sent both ways, and revealed himself to be Strahd von Zarovich, brought back to life by the Dark Powers, as his curse.
---
Kind of a weird thing here, one of the party members before this spin-off found the Luck Blade in the crypts of Castle Ravenloft, and essentially wished to cure Strahd before they slew him. However, upon slaying him the Dark Powers arrived as wispy shadows and promised to grant whatever wish the party desired, one each. They proclaimed Barovia always needs a Dark Lord, and party member who offered to take up the mantle is now Dark Lord of Barovia and Castle Ravenloft, so that's fun. That character obviously was retired, while the others asked to stay around for their own personal reasons, some of which I don't even know. I felt like they didn't want to owe anything to the Dark Powers.
ANYWAYS, I kind of ruled that this "wish" spell, seemed to fail in the moment, but upon his revival from the Dark Powers, he felt changed and sickened by his actions in murdering his own brother, and whatever else he caused while Dark Lord of Barovia.
Now, he's not fully "redeemed" and I'm still keeping most of his motivations close to his chest. The core motivation is to end his torment at the hands of the Dark Powers and find a way to free him from his curse.
I just kind of like the idea of Strahd being a morally grey anti-hero, with a much bigger antagonistic threat in the spin-off campaign.
Either way, back to the actual post. I thought this would be good clarification?
---
The two original party members reluctantly agreed to help Strahd, but said they were very keen on killing him, of which he said he understood but would be pointless because he'd just come back again, and again and again. Forever.
The left towards the monastery known as the Chapel of the Night (total homebrewed location) and began their adventure inside. Tonight; I had them find a tome regarding tons of knowledge regarding the Dark Powers (that was protected by an Atropal, and contained their true names mostly, and re-iterating there's no way to destroy them nor defeat them) but I want my players to feel like they won and accomplished something against these unknown, powerful entities.
Thoughts, ideas? I don't want to tell them that their goal is folly and impossible. That's not fun. I want them to discover at-least a possible to "win" against the Dark Powers.
---
Tl;DR: Is there any fun ideas/ways/thoughts anyone else has on how my party could triumph over the Dark Powers and gain a sense that they won?
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DM/Founder for Mimics & Monstrosities, a D&D network.
Sounds actually like an interesting campaign, although I wouldn't allow for the destruction of the dark powers in my game. They are far too integral to Ravenloft, and all but omnipotent within it (hell, they don't even appear in person. At most NPCs might refer to them or a pc is cursed by them)
So what if... They discover that fully destroying the Dark Powers would be... Impractical. The Dark Powers are responsible for maintaining the demiplane of dread, and destroying them would cause the whole shebang to dissolve into nothing. Instead, what if they need to find some way to imprison them? It's not a permanent solution, but it will at least temporarily free the domains from their malign influence, maybe until a more permanent solution can be found?
Assuming the Amber Temple was the same in your game as in the book, maybe the players can use it to re-imprison the Powers? With some time shenanigans, you could even reveal that the players are actually the wizards who originally built the temple and imprisoned the Powers there?
For me I agree that "defeating" or "destroying" the essence of Evil or Dread is pretty much not gonna happen. It can be beat back, it can be contained. You can limit their influence or better still release some kind of balancing factor. Maybe rather than freeing Strahd by destroying his tormentors, they could get him release by finding and empowering a counter-agent. An essence of Hope perhaps.
I would go back to the roots of the Ravenloft setting: Strahd's dark bargain stuck so he could have the immortality of youth and with it the love of his Tatyanna. I know that in some of the later books there's something where Ireena (who in some early versions is Tatyanna re-incarnated) goes on to become queen of Ravenloft with Strahd, but I'm not sure where that sits with all the campaign settings. It's definitely a fun plot twist.
But perhaps the key to Strahd's release from the torment of evil isn't so much destroying the evil as it is resetting the clock on the bargain itself. How could Strahd earn back his freedom from the darkness and how can the PC's help create that chain of events. Maybe they need to find the means of attonement and somehow trick Strahd into it. This could actually lead to a full release of the land from Darkness and severely limit the plane of Dread's influence there.
The dark powers are integral to the Ravenloft setting, but there's nothing saying you can't destroy a setting in your own private game. I might be tempted to resurrect some old Planescape concepts and make it so the demiplane is currently attached to the Nine Hells, but capable of migration, and the key is probably restoration of the Light Powers (I don't remember exactly what they're called and my CoS isn't with me).
Sounds actually like an interesting campaign, although I wouldn't allow for the destruction of the dark powers in my game. They are far too integral to Ravenloft, and all but omnipotent within it (hell, they don't even appear in person. At most NPCs might refer to them or a pc is cursed by them)
So what if... They discover that fully destroying the Dark Powers would be... Impractical. The Dark Powers are responsible for maintaining the demiplane of dread, and destroying them would cause the whole shebang to dissolve into nothing. Instead, what if they need to find some way to imprison them? It's not a permanent solution, but it will at least temporarily free the domains from their malign influence, maybe until a more permanent solution can be found?
Assuming the Amber Temple was the same in your game as in the book, maybe the players can use it to re-imprison the Powers? With some time shenanigans, you could even reveal that the players are actually the wizards who originally built the temple and imprisoned the Powers there?
I really like the time-travel shenanigans. Like, Ireena/Tatyana the party could be the reincarnated Wizards. I really really like that idea.
For me I agree that "defeating" or "destroying" the essence of Evil or Dread is pretty much not gonna happen. It can be beat back, it can be contained. You can limit their influence or better still release some kind of balancing factor. Maybe rather than freeing Strahd by destroying his tormentors, they could get him release by finding and empowering a counter-agent. An essence of Hope perhaps.
I would go back to the roots of the Ravenloft setting: Strahd's dark bargain stuck so he could have the immortality of youth and with it the love of his Tatyanna. I know that in some of the later books there's something where Ireena (who in some early versions is Tatyanna re-incarnated) goes on to become queen of Ravenloft with Strahd, but I'm not sure where that sits with all the campaign settings. It's definitely a fun plot twist.
But perhaps the key to Strahd's release from the torment of evil isn't so much destroying the evil as it is resetting the clock on the bargain itself. How could Strahd earn back his freedom from the darkness and how can the PC's help create that chain of events. Maybe they need to find the means of attonement and somehow trick Strahd into it. This could actually lead to a full release of the land from Darkness and severely limit the plane of Dread's influence there.
Yeah, I don't necessarily want to destroy the Dark Powers in this setting, I want them to still be mysterious, and horrific and terrifying and I feel that an evil, unknown, omnipotent presence is far more terrifying than a vampire you can run a stake through.
I do like some form of atonement for Strahd; which I'm kind of playing with based on a player using the Luck Blade to use the wish spell to wish his "curse" to end. Kind of messing with it didn't have an effect until after the Dark Powers resurrected Strahd, and has now set him down this path of seeking freedom from the Powers and Ravenloft and the ultimate key there would be his own redemption and atonement for all the evil he's caused.
I like the idea of a balance though between evil and hope. Thanks!
The dark powers are integral to the Ravenloft setting, but there's nothing saying you can't destroy a setting in your own private game. I might be tempted to resurrect some old Planescape concepts and make it so the demiplane is currently attached to the Nine Hells, but capable of migration, and the key is probably restoration of the Light Powers (I don't remember exactly what they're called and my CoS isn't with me).
I don't want to destroy Ravenloft, it's my favourite setting! But, I think somehow weaking the grip the Dark Powers have on the plane for a time would be a fun goal, and possibly a way to free ALL the lost souls trapped there by the Dark Powers.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM/Founder for Mimics & Monstrosities, a D&D network.
I don't want to destroy Ravenloft, it's my favourite setting! But, I think somehow weaking the grip the Dark Powers have on the plane for a time would be a fun goal, and possibly a way to free ALL the lost souls trapped there by the Dark Powers.
Something to muse on....
You've got these players/ characters with a LOT of miles under them. Maybe you *should* destroy Ravenloft.
Hear me out, that is a great way to end a campaign. They set out on their mission, they achieve it eventually, and then.... it's end credits. Game over. Rock on. Stay to see if there's some cool scene after the credits.
One of the biggest challenges of any DND game is knowing when to end that story. you can all sit down after, have a good talk about "the next game" and then say "do we want to go back to Ravenloft? Maybe a new game in a new universe?" Or "do we want to try a different RPG?" or even "who wants a turn as DM for a few months?
Ravenloft campaign; post Curse of Strahd. - Spoilers if you haven't beaten/played it I guess?
Tl;DR: Is there any fun ideas/ways/thoughts anyone else has on how my party could triumph over the Dark Powers and gain a sense that they won?
Their goal is to free their buddy from Barovia? Strahd's goal is to free himself from Barovia? The Dark Powers goal is to have either your buddy or Strahd on the throne of Barovia? If your guys try to free their buddy by replacing him with Strahd, that brings them head to head not only with Strahd but with Madame Eva, whose goal is also to free Strahd from Barovia, even though Strahd doesn't know it.
Would it be fun for them to outplay and outmaneuver everyone so that Eva is forced to take the throne somehow? You haven't cut the Dark Powers up, but you've forced them to accept an outcome that they didn't want, which is pretty good against an omnipotent foe.
Alternatively, if your group was evil-ish and you use different 2e Ravenloft settings, I'd engineer a confrontation between the Dark Powers and the Illithid God-Brain in Bluetspur. It's by far the most powerful entity in Ravenloft after the DPs. Gothic horror is pretty humanocentric, Cthulhu horror is absolutely not. What would happen if it fought them? Would everyone be wiped out? What if your players have to stop the deposed, but still cursed Strahd from trying to wake the God-Brain and end his torment by annihilating the whole place?
Ravenloft campaign; post Curse of Strahd. - Spoilers if you haven't beaten/played it I guess?
Tl;DR: Is there any fun ideas/ways/thoughts anyone else has on how my party could triumph over the Dark Powers and gain a sense that they won?
Their goal is to free their buddy from Barovia? Strahd's goal is to free himself from Barovia? The Dark Powers goal is to have either your buddy or Strahd on the throne of Barovia? If your guys try to free their buddy by replacing him with Strahd, that brings them head to head not only with Strahd but with Madame Eva, whose goal is also to free Strahd from Barovia, even though Strahd doesn't know it.
Would it be fun for them to outplay and outmaneuver everyone so that Eva is forced to take the throne somehow? You haven't cut the Dark Powers up, but you've forced them to accept an outcome that they didn't want, which is pretty good against an omnipotent foe.
Alternatively, if your group was evil-ish and you use different 2e Ravenloft settings, I'd engineer a confrontation between the Dark Powers and the Illithid God-Brain in Bluetspur. It's by far the most powerful entity in Ravenloft after the DPs. Gothic horror is pretty humanocentric, Cthulhu horror is absolutely not. What would happen if it fought them? Would everyone be wiped out? What if your players have to stop the deposed, but still cursed Strahd from trying to wake the God-Brain and end his torment by annihilating the whole place?
Gah, all of these suggestions are great.
I've been doing some research into the other domains in Ravenloft and dang does Bluetspur interest me as someone who loves the horror that is possible with Illithid, especially if there's a God Brain involved.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM/Founder for Mimics & Monstrosities, a D&D network.
Ravenloft campaign; post Curse of Strahd. - Spoilers if you haven't beaten/played it I guess?
The party is 11th-level, and have defeated Strahd but I thought a Ravenloft campaign as a spin-off would be super fun, so here we are. A year has passed since they beat Strahd, and they get a letter from a man in Harmonia (Kartakass domain) called Vasili von Holtz who has expressed an interest in their tales of besting Strahd that he exclaims has spread across Ravenloft to the other domains.
The party never encountered Vasili during CoS, so I figured this could be a lot of fun. I made him the Meistersinger and proprietor of a local amphitheatre in the village where he asked the party to meet him to explain his research on freeing individuals from Ravenloft from the grips of the Dark Powers.
They agree to head back to his mansion in Harmonia to discuss these plans further, and the party settle down in his home and meet his two associates (the players who perished rolled new characters for this spin-off campaign) who will be accompanying the surviving two-members of the party from CoS on this journey. They're being sent into the mountains to a monastery that had once been the site of a collection of clerics who worshipped the Dark Powers themselves, and Vasili believes that would be the place to go looking.
During dinner, Vasili believed he needed trust to be sent both ways, and revealed himself to be Strahd von Zarovich, brought back to life by the Dark Powers, as his curse.
---
Kind of a weird thing here, one of the party members before this spin-off found the Luck Blade in the crypts of Castle Ravenloft, and essentially wished to cure Strahd before they slew him. However, upon slaying him the Dark Powers arrived as wispy shadows and promised to grant whatever wish the party desired, one each. They proclaimed Barovia always needs a Dark Lord, and party member who offered to take up the mantle is now Dark Lord of Barovia and Castle Ravenloft, so that's fun. That character obviously was retired, while the others asked to stay around for their own personal reasons, some of which I don't even know. I felt like they didn't want to owe anything to the Dark Powers.
ANYWAYS, I kind of ruled that this "wish" spell, seemed to fail in the moment, but upon his revival from the Dark Powers, he felt changed and sickened by his actions in murdering his own brother, and whatever else he caused while Dark Lord of Barovia.
Now, he's not fully "redeemed" and I'm still keeping most of his motivations close to his chest. The core motivation is to end his torment at the hands of the Dark Powers and find a way to free him from his curse.
I just kind of like the idea of Strahd being a morally grey anti-hero, with a much bigger antagonistic threat in the spin-off campaign.
Either way, back to the actual post. I thought this would be good clarification?
---
The two original party members reluctantly agreed to help Strahd, but said they were very keen on killing him, of which he said he understood but would be pointless because he'd just come back again, and again and again. Forever.
The left towards the monastery known as the Chapel of the Night (total homebrewed location) and began their adventure inside. Tonight; I had them find a tome regarding tons of knowledge regarding the Dark Powers (that was protected by an Atropal, and contained their true names mostly, and re-iterating there's no way to destroy them nor defeat them) but I want my players to feel like they won and accomplished something against these unknown, powerful entities.
Thoughts, ideas? I don't want to tell them that their goal is folly and impossible. That's not fun. I want them to discover at-least a possible to "win" against the Dark Powers.
---
Tl;DR: Is there any fun ideas/ways/thoughts anyone else has on how my party could triumph over the Dark Powers and gain a sense that they won?
DM/Founder for Mimics & Monstrosities, a D&D network.
Mimics & Monstrosities Youtube
Mimics & Monstrosities Twitch
Occasional DM's Guild Content Creator
Sounds actually like an interesting campaign, although I wouldn't allow for the destruction of the dark powers in my game. They are far too integral to Ravenloft, and all but omnipotent within it (hell, they don't even appear in person. At most NPCs might refer to them or a pc is cursed by them)
So what if... They discover that fully destroying the Dark Powers would be... Impractical. The Dark Powers are responsible for maintaining the demiplane of dread, and destroying them would cause the whole shebang to dissolve into nothing. Instead, what if they need to find some way to imprison them? It's not a permanent solution, but it will at least temporarily free the domains from their malign influence, maybe until a more permanent solution can be found?
Assuming the Amber Temple was the same in your game as in the book, maybe the players can use it to re-imprison the Powers? With some time shenanigans, you could even reveal that the players are actually the wizards who originally built the temple and imprisoned the Powers there?
Hmm.. lots of possibilities here to unpack.
For me I agree that "defeating" or "destroying" the essence of Evil or Dread is pretty much not gonna happen. It can be beat back, it can be contained. You can limit their influence or better still release some kind of balancing factor. Maybe rather than freeing Strahd by destroying his tormentors, they could get him release by finding and empowering a counter-agent. An essence of Hope perhaps.
I would go back to the roots of the Ravenloft setting: Strahd's dark bargain stuck so he could have the immortality of youth and with it the love of his Tatyanna. I know that in some of the later books there's something where Ireena (who in some early versions is Tatyanna re-incarnated) goes on to become queen of Ravenloft with Strahd, but I'm not sure where that sits with all the campaign settings. It's definitely a fun plot twist.
But perhaps the key to Strahd's release from the torment of evil isn't so much destroying the evil as it is resetting the clock on the bargain itself. How could Strahd earn back his freedom from the darkness and how can the PC's help create that chain of events. Maybe they need to find the means of attonement and somehow trick Strahd into it. This could actually lead to a full release of the land from Darkness and severely limit the plane of Dread's influence there.
"Teller of tales, dreamer of dreams"
Tips, Tricks, Maps: Lantern Noir Presents
**Streams hosted at at twitch.tv/LaternNoir
The dark powers are integral to the Ravenloft setting, but there's nothing saying you can't destroy a setting in your own private game. I might be tempted to resurrect some old Planescape concepts and make it so the demiplane is currently attached to the Nine Hells, but capable of migration, and the key is probably restoration of the Light Powers (I don't remember exactly what they're called and my CoS isn't with me).
I really like the time-travel shenanigans. Like, Ireena/Tatyana the party could be the reincarnated Wizards. I really really like that idea.
Yeah, I don't necessarily want to destroy the Dark Powers in this setting, I want them to still be mysterious, and horrific and terrifying and I feel that an evil, unknown, omnipotent presence is far more terrifying than a vampire you can run a stake through.
I do like some form of atonement for Strahd; which I'm kind of playing with based on a player using the Luck Blade to use the wish spell to wish his "curse" to end. Kind of messing with it didn't have an effect until after the Dark Powers resurrected Strahd, and has now set him down this path of seeking freedom from the Powers and Ravenloft and the ultimate key there would be his own redemption and atonement for all the evil he's caused.
I like the idea of a balance though between evil and hope. Thanks!
I don't want to destroy Ravenloft, it's my favourite setting! But, I think somehow weaking the grip the Dark Powers have on the plane for a time would be a fun goal, and possibly a way to free ALL the lost souls trapped there by the Dark Powers.
DM/Founder for Mimics & Monstrosities, a D&D network.
Mimics & Monstrosities Youtube
Mimics & Monstrosities Twitch
Occasional DM's Guild Content Creator
Something to muse on....
You've got these players/ characters with a LOT of miles under them. Maybe you *should* destroy Ravenloft.
Hear me out, that is a great way to end a campaign. They set out on their mission, they achieve it eventually, and then.... it's end credits. Game over. Rock on. Stay to see if there's some cool scene after the credits.
One of the biggest challenges of any DND game is knowing when to end that story. you can all sit down after, have a good talk about "the next game" and then say "do we want to go back to Ravenloft? Maybe a new game in a new universe?" Or "do we want to try a different RPG?" or even "who wants a turn as DM for a few months?
"Teller of tales, dreamer of dreams"
Tips, Tricks, Maps: Lantern Noir Presents
**Streams hosted at at twitch.tv/LaternNoir
Their goal is to free their buddy from Barovia? Strahd's goal is to free himself from Barovia? The Dark Powers goal is to have either your buddy or Strahd on the throne of Barovia? If your guys try to free their buddy by replacing him with Strahd, that brings them head to head not only with Strahd but with Madame Eva, whose goal is also to free Strahd from Barovia, even though Strahd doesn't know it.
Would it be fun for them to outplay and outmaneuver everyone so that Eva is forced to take the throne somehow? You haven't cut the Dark Powers up, but you've forced them to accept an outcome that they didn't want, which is pretty good against an omnipotent foe.
Alternatively, if your group was evil-ish and you use different 2e Ravenloft settings, I'd engineer a confrontation between the Dark Powers and the Illithid God-Brain in Bluetspur. It's by far the most powerful entity in Ravenloft after the DPs. Gothic horror is pretty humanocentric, Cthulhu horror is absolutely not. What would happen if it fought them? Would everyone be wiped out? What if your players have to stop the deposed, but still cursed Strahd from trying to wake the God-Brain and end his torment by annihilating the whole place?
Gah, all of these suggestions are great.
I've been doing some research into the other domains in Ravenloft and dang does Bluetspur interest me as someone who loves the horror that is possible with Illithid, especially if there's a God Brain involved.
DM/Founder for Mimics & Monstrosities, a D&D network.
Mimics & Monstrosities Youtube
Mimics & Monstrosities Twitch
Occasional DM's Guild Content Creator