I want to make an encounter where a Hag will tell the future (in vague rhymes off course), for the price of the players darkvision. The players can choose between the bargain or a fight with the hag. Is this a good or bad idea? Or do you have any idea on how to improve the encounter?
Playing STK, with a Half-Elf Rogue, A Tiefling Warlock and a dwarf cleric.
I want to make an encounter where a Hag will tell the future (in vague rhymes off course), for the price of the players darkvision. The players can choose between the bargain or a fight with the hag. Is this a good or bad idea? Or do you have any idea on how to improve the encounter?
Playing STK, with a Half-Elf Rogue, A Tiefling Warlock and a dwarf cleric.
If you rely only on dark vision. You leave yourselves susceptible to being murdered horrible by Gloomstalkers.
Based on the topic title, I thought you meant just while in the vision. I can think of logical and mechanical reasons that could be fine. But as a permanent trade for a vision of the future, I’d never do it as a player. It seems unnecessarily messy to deal with. But you do you, and if your players are good with it, cool.
Thank you for the input! Never thought of it from a players perspective, and what ypu say makes sense. Maybe its better to take away something narrative instead of mechanical.
Giving up forever something that always works for vague hints and clues about what may happen at some time in the future? I'm not sure anyone sane would take that deal.
Now... if the future is potentially dangerous and knowledge of that future would be critical for survival, and if the Darkvision is lost not forever, but for some period of time (say, a couple of weeks or a month), then I might consider the deal.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Another thought: depends on if you (as DM) consider time as incorruptible. That is, even if the future is foretold in vague terms, that it nonetheless WILL happen no matter what steps or actions are taken to change or influence the outcome; or, is the 'future' something that can be manipulated or altered by actions/inactions taken by the characters in the present. It's a bit of a thought experiment, but a player may feel hosed by giving up something, to find out about the future, and not have any real Player agency to influence or change the future. (And, what does the Hag gain or benefit from such an exchange? Does she suddenly have the darkvision?)
Another thought: depends on if you (as DM) consider time as incorruptible. That is, even if the future is foretold in vague terms, that it nonetheless WILL happen no matter what steps or actions are taken to change or influence the outcome; or, is the 'future' something that can be manipulated or altered by actions/inactions taken by the characters in the present. It's a bit of a thought experiment, but a player may feel hosed by giving up something, to find out about the future, and not have any real Player agency to influence or change the future. (And, what does the Hag gain or benefit from such an exchange? Does she suddenly have the darkvision?)
Good Point! Im running Storm Kings thunder, and the future the Hag will predict is in chapter 4. This chapter are unavoidable for the players, and therefore bound to happen. But I dont want this encounter make them feel railroaded. An example: My cleric got a Hammer from the giants long ago, and this hammer is a long lost key to the All Fathers Eye in STK. The hag will tell him he holds the key, but not to where the key fits.
Giving up forever something that always works for vague hints and clues about what may happen at some time in the future? I'm not sure anyone sane would take that deal.
Now... if the future is potentially dangerous and knowledge of that future would be critical for survival, and if the Darkvision is lost not forever, but for some period of time (say, a couple of weeks or a month), then I might consider the deal.
I get the point! Will take away something more narratively important (like a tooth, a family hairloom or something like that). And not a ability (like darkvision)
First, you are off to a good start by putting a lot of hooks in early in SKT to try to give characters some knowledge of what's going on. That module needs a lot of work by the DM.
As to your encounter, consider what purpose you want the encounter to serve, and that will help you determine what type encounter it should be. I view hags as devious, cunning and strategic, so that informs my opinion on the following scenarios -- these are just some suggestions for thought :)
Do the characters know she is a hag? If so, do they know they are actually seeing her, and not just talking to a person under possession/compulsion by the hag?
If the purpose is mainly to provide information, use this as an RP encounter. Let the hag tease that she has knowledge/information that is useful, get the characters interested in that. When she gets to the stakes, you could start with darkvision, and either bargain down, or perhaps have the characters perform some other task for her. That task could lead also lead to some knowledge about the world.
Resorting to combat early should be a bad idea, particularly if this is in the hag's lair, unless you really want this to be mainly a combat encounter. Hags need minions, escape routes, and misdirections, they won't go toe-to-toe in a melee brawl. She could escape and then hound the characters for some time after, causing trouble when it's most appropriate.
For exploration, the hag can point the characters in many different directions, perhaps even alluding to some of the goings on in the world. Of course one or two of these should be false or misleading in a way that would be beneficial to the hag. IE: she saw a floating tower, and knows that the ruler of the small town nearby spoke with the cloud giants in it. She could then shape the narrative in a way that would influence the characters to kill/neutralize the town ruler (so the hag can get more influence) even though the ruler was merely trying to protect his town from the giants and doesn't really know anything more.
Hope that helps!
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
First, you are off to a good start by putting a lot of hooks in early in SKT to try to give characters some knowledge of what's going on. That module needs a lot of work by the DM.
As to your encounter, consider what purpose you want the encounter to serve, and that will help you determine what type encounter it should be. I view hags as devious, cunning and strategic, so that informs my opinion on the following scenarios -- these are just some suggestions for thought :)
Do the characters know she is a hag? If so, do they know they are actually seeing her, and not just talking to a person under possession/compulsion by the hag?
If the purpose is mainly to provide information, use this as an RP encounter. Let the hag tease that she has knowledge/information that is useful, get the characters interested in that. When she gets to the stakes, you could start with darkvision, and either bargain down, or perhaps have the characters perform some other task for her. That task could lead also lead to some knowledge about the world.
Resorting to combat early should be a bad idea, particularly if this is in the hag's lair, unless you really want this to be mainly a combat encounter. Hags need minions, escape routes, and misdirections, they won't go toe-to-toe in a melee brawl. She could escape and then hound the characters for some time after, causing trouble when it's most appropriate.
For exploration, the hag can point the characters in many different directions, perhaps even alluding to some of the goings on in the world. Of course one or two of these should be false or misleading in a way that would be beneficial to the hag. IE: she saw a floating tower, and knows that the ruler of the small town nearby spoke with the cloud giants in it. She could then shape the narrative in a way that would influence the characters to kill/neutralize the town ruler (so the hag can get more influence) even though the ruler was merely trying to protect his town from the giants and doesn't really know anything more.
Hope that helps!
Awesome! This helps alot! Thank you! My main goal is to leave hooks for the players, so i'm running it as an RP encounter as suggested. At least until the players decide otherwise and do something aggressive. Then i'll have the combat as a means of the hag getting away. She's gonna lure them to her coven with illusions of enemies of the past, and when they arrive try to tease that she has information. Maybe she can predict their future in exchange for a murder or kidnapping of a baby. That could work instead of the darkvision.
Thanks again for your input! It was really valuable!
Ask for "something precious" and then let the player decide what that means to them. Give them Inspiration along with the vision. And if they give something too important, let them get it back through some manner, perhaps changed.
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I want to make an encounter where a Hag will tell the future (in vague rhymes off course), for the price of the players darkvision. The players can choose between the bargain or a fight with the hag. Is this a good or bad idea? Or do you have any idea on how to improve the encounter?
Playing STK, with a Half-Elf Rogue, A Tiefling Warlock and a dwarf cleric.
If you rely only on dark vision. You leave yourselves susceptible to being murdered horrible by Gloomstalkers.
Blank
Based on the topic title, I thought you meant just while in the vision. I can think of logical and mechanical reasons that could be fine. But as a permanent trade for a vision of the future, I’d never do it as a player. It seems unnecessarily messy to deal with. But you do you, and if your players are good with it, cool.
Thank you for the input! Never thought of it from a players perspective, and what ypu say makes sense. Maybe its better to take away something narrative instead of mechanical.
Giving up forever something that always works for vague hints and clues about what may happen at some time in the future? I'm not sure anyone sane would take that deal.
Now... if the future is potentially dangerous and knowledge of that future would be critical for survival, and if the Darkvision is lost not forever, but for some period of time (say, a couple of weeks or a month), then I might consider the deal.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Another thought: depends on if you (as DM) consider time as incorruptible. That is, even if the future is foretold in vague terms, that it nonetheless WILL happen no matter what steps or actions are taken to change or influence the outcome; or, is the 'future' something that can be manipulated or altered by actions/inactions taken by the characters in the present. It's a bit of a thought experiment, but a player may feel hosed by giving up something, to find out about the future, and not have any real Player agency to influence or change the future. (And, what does the Hag gain or benefit from such an exchange? Does she suddenly have the darkvision?)
Boldly go
Kind of like what John said, how could you know the future for the players unless you’re railroading them?
Good Point! Im running Storm Kings thunder, and the future the Hag will predict is in chapter 4. This chapter are unavoidable for the players, and therefore bound to happen. But I dont want this encounter make them feel railroaded. An example: My cleric got a Hammer from the giants long ago, and this hammer is a long lost key to the All Fathers Eye in STK. The hag will tell him he holds the key, but not to where the key fits.
I get the point! Will take away something more narratively important (like a tooth, a family hairloom or something like that). And not a ability (like darkvision)
First, you are off to a good start by putting a lot of hooks in early in SKT to try to give characters some knowledge of what's going on. That module needs a lot of work by the DM.
As to your encounter, consider what purpose you want the encounter to serve, and that will help you determine what type encounter it should be. I view hags as devious, cunning and strategic, so that informs my opinion on the following scenarios -- these are just some suggestions for thought :)
Hope that helps!
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Awesome! This helps alot! Thank you! My main goal is to leave hooks for the players, so i'm running it as an RP encounter as suggested. At least until the players decide otherwise and do something aggressive. Then i'll have the combat as a means of the hag getting away. She's gonna lure them to her coven with illusions of enemies of the past, and when they arrive try to tease that she has information. Maybe she can predict their future in exchange for a murder or kidnapping of a baby. That could work instead of the darkvision.
Thanks again for your input! It was really valuable!
Ask for "something precious" and then let the player decide what that means to them. Give them Inspiration along with the vision. And if they give something too important, let them get it back through some manner, perhaps changed.