So, my party is mostly a bunch of teenagers and they keep on inviting other people. We finnaly said that we can't have any more people, but last time we got 1.5 conversations done with NCPs in 2 hours. My original plan is to split the party(one of the players can DM the other group) but the will want to stay together.
Anything over 6 is just unmanageable, IMO... especially if you are dealing with teenagers who are not grown-ups yet and lack (due to age, this is not an insult) adult maturity. I would split them and not give them a choice about whether they "want to stay" or not.
If you need leverage, you could always say, "Either we split or I stop DMing completely." I'd use that as a last resort though.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I don't think it will work in your case, but the usual approach is to pick a player who seems invested and you think could help corral the other players. Known as a 'caller', this player helps the group come to decisions and then tells you what they are doing. This helps reduce the chaos of everyone trying to talk to you at once.
Also, during combat definitely go with average hit points and damage for the monsters to reduce the amount of time spent rolling and keep things moving faster. Tell the players they can do the same for their damage rolls if they wish.
I sounds like you have two groups - one that just wants to fight with their characters, and they other that wants to roleplay. If you can, run two different sessions with for these two groups. If you're not interested in that, then speak to the 'just want to fight' players one-on-one and tell them you need them to change how they're playing or you'll have to drop them.
Well, one of the other players kinda wants to DM another group, and then I could play as a player. My main problem is how to bring it up to the players. I do have 2 callers, but one quite often joins in the inter-party fights.
The best bet with any of these things is to be open with everyone. Maybe leave some time at the end of a session and tell the players that you're not enjoying DMing a game with so much player fighting and ask them what they want to do about it. The bottom line for you should be that you will not continue DMing if it continues.
One thing to find out from the inter-party fighting players is to ask them if there is something they're really like in the game that doesn't involve fighting the other player. Like maybe there is an opportunity to participate in a gladitorial-type arena combat. I've had my players join in one in a town controlled by an NPC villain and it was a lot of fun. Or possibly, they'd like a game where the party is evil and working for a big bad. There's still a lot of roleplaying in that but also the players get to feel bad-ass.
Perhaps talk to the player who wants to DM to see if splitting would be something he's open to. Definitely offer to have him play in your game and you in his.
Just say pvp disabled. I currently DM a fairly large group and they love beating each other up. As soon as fights break out, I yell pvp disabled and they stop.
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Just say pvp disabled. I currently DM a fairly large group and they love beating each other up. As soon as fights break out, I yell pvp disabled and they stop.
This. I also have some ground rules for players. Mainly that they are a team, they are heroic, and that killing regular people in game has similar consequences to doing it in a real life medieval europe - namely, a hanging.
Alternatively, for the players who want to beat each other up you could provide an arena for them, either as something for them to do on the side or as the focus of a separate campaign.
It's less about being a skilled GM and more about managing expectations, especially your own. Did you walk into this expecting to run such a large group? Did people join your group expecting to be able to play with their friends? What other expectations could your players have when it comes to playing?
It's also about managing people. I had to look for tools and tips to get my players more focused. I put up name tents on my screen with each PC's name to track initiative, and I've started using a customer service bell (think hotel desk bell) and a sandglass timer with 1-, 3-, and 5-minute timers. If they start going off-game (or if someone does something that's about to start a battle), I ding the bell. If someone is taking too long for their turn, I pull out the sand timer and say, "You have a minute to choose a course of action." There are plenty of other tips and tricks on various articles all over the internet (combining dice rolls, etc.), but the overall idea is to get your players' attention and not let go.
Thats to many. I would split the group into two sessions. I prefer 4-5 players in a session with 6 being my absolute max. I have run larger games in the past long ago but it takes far to long for stuff to happen. I like a well paced game. My current game is at 4 players and seems to be the ideal amount for it. The group is consistent and I rarely have any cancels.
Splitting the group is a good option and I've done it a couple of ways. If someone will step up with the other group you and the other DM can work together with the 2 player groups: mix players back and forth, separate and reintegrate them, etc.
I've played some other systems with groups this large and having it be pvp intensive is an option. I even got to the point where 3 or 4 characters were going at it and I said, you guys go roll it out and I had NPC conversations with the rest of the group.
Perma-death is another option. It works best when that is the goal because the people who are "out" are still interested and come hang out (and distract people, but at least the story moves)
Vehicles. Put them on a ship where everyone needs to do a job. It works with ships where they are the whole crew, or officers leading teams. Also, a wagon train with possibly not enough food or supplies to keep moving so everyone needs to pitch in with different tasks. This option allows for battles, mostly outside and modest dungeon crawls.
quasi pvp, but how about having some of your players become the NPC's? one of the challenges I've had is playing complex NPC's as a DM, just because there's so much other DM stuff to worry about. After many fights, I've reflected and thought 'oh man, if i had thought to do this..or that...or whatever'.
...even if that works out for you though, the group is probably just too big....unless their goal is to really just sit around and B.S....nothing wrong with that.
like they said, just split the group...i'd even think about making 2 of them DM's and you be the Controller. I haven't played any epic AL sessions, but something like that - where the whole room is running one grand campaign and each table has a different task - all working towards the same goal.
Splitting the party isn't always possible for whatever reason. But I'm glad you were able to work it out.
In this case of large groups, I support the no PvP rule. Teens sometime let the bitterness of a loss carry over.
What I usually do is get rid of initiative. The monsters have their turn whenever I think it will be appropriate. Everybody else is whoever is on my left or right and then move to the next person in order. On the next encounter I start with the person that would have gone next in the last encounter.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
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So, my party is mostly a bunch of teenagers and they keep on inviting other people. We finnaly said that we can't have any more people, but last time we got 1.5 conversations done with NCPs in 2 hours. My original plan is to split the party(one of the players can DM the other group) but the will want to stay together.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
Anything over 6 is just unmanageable, IMO... especially if you are dealing with teenagers who are not grown-ups yet and lack (due to age, this is not an insult) adult maturity. I would split them and not give them a choice about whether they "want to stay" or not.
If you need leverage, you could always say, "Either we split or I stop DMing completely." I'd use that as a last resort though.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Yea, I had hoped that I could control them, but all they really want to do is beat up on each other in game.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
And I love DMing a lot, so that could be a problem with the last resort.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
You could always run a PvP campaign :)
I could, but some players do actually want to play the story. But I could do that if it got to out of control.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
Survival of the fittest.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
I don't think it will work in your case, but the usual approach is to pick a player who seems invested and you think could help corral the other players. Known as a 'caller', this player helps the group come to decisions and then tells you what they are doing. This helps reduce the chaos of everyone trying to talk to you at once.
Also, during combat definitely go with average hit points and damage for the monsters to reduce the amount of time spent rolling and keep things moving faster. Tell the players they can do the same for their damage rolls if they wish.
I sounds like you have two groups - one that just wants to fight with their characters, and they other that wants to roleplay. If you can, run two different sessions with for these two groups. If you're not interested in that, then speak to the 'just want to fight' players one-on-one and tell them you need them to change how they're playing or you'll have to drop them.
Well, one of the other players kinda wants to DM another group, and then I could play as a player. My main problem is how to bring it up to the players. I do have 2 callers, but one quite often joins in the inter-party fights.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
The best bet with any of these things is to be open with everyone. Maybe leave some time at the end of a session and tell the players that you're not enjoying DMing a game with so much player fighting and ask them what they want to do about it. The bottom line for you should be that you will not continue DMing if it continues.
One thing to find out from the inter-party fighting players is to ask them if there is something they're really like in the game that doesn't involve fighting the other player. Like maybe there is an opportunity to participate in a gladitorial-type arena combat. I've had my players join in one in a town controlled by an NPC villain and it was a lot of fun. Or possibly, they'd like a game where the party is evil and working for a big bad. There's still a lot of roleplaying in that but also the players get to feel bad-ass.
Perhaps talk to the player who wants to DM to see if splitting would be something he's open to. Definitely offer to have him play in your game and you in his.
Thank everyone, I just needed to see if skilled GM's would do the same thing.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
Just say pvp disabled. I currently DM a fairly large group and they love beating each other up. As soon as fights break out, I yell pvp disabled and they stop.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
- Litany Against Fear, Frank Herbert
This. I also have some ground rules for players. Mainly that they are a team, they are heroic, and that killing regular people in game has similar consequences to doing it in a real life medieval europe - namely, a hanging.
Alternatively, for the players who want to beat each other up you could provide an arena for them, either as something for them to do on the side or as the focus of a separate campaign.
It's less about being a skilled GM and more about managing expectations, especially your own. Did you walk into this expecting to run such a large group? Did people join your group expecting to be able to play with their friends? What other expectations could your players have when it comes to playing?
It's also about managing people. I had to look for tools and tips to get my players more focused. I put up name tents on my screen with each PC's name to track initiative, and I've started using a customer service bell (think hotel desk bell) and a sandglass timer with 1-, 3-, and 5-minute timers. If they start going off-game (or if someone does something that's about to start a battle), I ding the bell. If someone is taking too long for their turn, I pull out the sand timer and say, "You have a minute to choose a course of action." There are plenty of other tips and tricks on various articles all over the internet (combining dice rolls, etc.), but the overall idea is to get your players' attention and not let go.
Carrion
Thats to many. I would split the group into two sessions. I prefer 4-5 players in a session with 6 being my absolute max. I have run larger games in the past long ago but it takes far to long for stuff to happen. I like a well paced game. My current game is at 4 players and seems to be the ideal amount for it. The group is consistent and I rarely have any cancels.
Great suggestions here.
Splitting the group is a good option and I've done it a couple of ways. If someone will step up with the other group you and the other DM can work together with the 2 player groups: mix players back and forth, separate and reintegrate them, etc.
I've played some other systems with groups this large and having it be pvp intensive is an option. I even got to the point where 3 or 4 characters were going at it and I said, you guys go roll it out and I had NPC conversations with the rest of the group.
Perma-death is another option. It works best when that is the goal because the people who are "out" are still interested and come hang out (and distract people, but at least the story moves)
Vehicles. Put them on a ship where everyone needs to do a job. It works with ships where they are the whole crew, or officers leading teams. Also, a wagon train with possibly not enough food or supplies to keep moving so everyone needs to pitch in with different tasks. This option allows for battles, mostly outside and modest dungeon crawls.
Everyone is the main character of their story
quasi pvp, but how about having some of your players become the NPC's? one of the challenges I've had is playing complex NPC's as a DM, just because there's so much other DM stuff to worry about. After many fights, I've reflected and thought 'oh man, if i had thought to do this..or that...or whatever'.
...even if that works out for you though, the group is probably just too big....unless their goal is to really just sit around and B.S....nothing wrong with that.
like they said, just split the group...i'd even think about making 2 of them DM's and you be the Controller. I haven't played any epic AL sessions, but something like that - where the whole room is running one grand campaign and each table has a different task - all working towards the same goal.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Ok, so we split the party and everyone is fine with it. Thanks everyone!
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
Splitting the party isn't always possible for whatever reason. But I'm glad you were able to work it out.
In this case of large groups, I support the no PvP rule. Teens sometime let the bitterness of a loss carry over.
What I usually do is get rid of initiative. The monsters have their turn whenever I think it will be appropriate. Everybody else is whoever is on my left or right and then move to the next person in order. On the next encounter I start with the person that would have gone next in the last encounter.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale