Some background: I just started running an Eberron Campaign centered on the mournland and my party is entering it through the thick wall of magical mist that sorrounds it. My idea was to have them be hunted by some mutated worgs with blindsight that stalk them and attack from the mist where the party can't see them, first with hit and run tactics weakening them, maybe soloing out one of them, and then all out attacking with their whole pack. The party will essentially be blind in the mist, all but one: The blind monk with echolocation (daredevil style).
Now my question: How do I run this encounter without giving my players meta knowledge ? Especially using a battlemat ? The monk will probably know where the worgs are at, so she can "see" them. But Im afraid of placing down miniatures on the map for the worgs because it gives the other players meta knowledge. I want them to feel hunted, scared and lost in the mist, feeling like prey, but dont want it to be frustrating. How do I emulate the effect of them not seeing anything in the mist ? (I was even thinking of blindfolding all but the blind player or running the encounter behind the dm screen and only tell them what they see). Any tips ?
(Minor secondary question: How do I better create that feeling of restlessness, rush and fear from them being stalked, hunted and chased by the worgs while blind and lost in a magical dread inducing mist ?)
Addition: They travel on horse back and have some House deneith mercenary NPCs with them. I plan to solo out and kill some of the NPCs and/or horses before the encounter starts.
In my experience, you can't, I ran something like this once but with a type of Wolves that teleport
from a balance standpoint, it's really an unfair encounter. 99% of the party can't use any of their attacks or abilities making it seem like it's set up just for the Monk to show off. The way I did something similar was to make it an Ability check they need to succeed 4-6 checks. make the DC something like 17 where they have to use their heads to come up with a way through. When they fail either they hear worgs But don't tell them what it is just they hear this series of low growling from all around them, By now the Monk should try to use echolocation just describe them without naming them, then if they fail again one gets bit but combat doesn't fully start so they get nervous. Once they make the successes Then have them find a decent size clearing, only to have them attack by leaping in and out of the fog that surrounds them.
Well you could just fall back on the game mechanic that is there that they have disadvantage to hit. That way, it will run like a normal encounter and the monk will just not have that disadvantage. That doesn't set the mood that you are going for though.
You could try a double blind. 2 identical maps, one with everything visible on the battle mat that you and the monk can see. And one with only what the other players see (major terrain features, the relative positioning between themselves, maybe a worg if they are engaged with it. The monk can try to communicate info to the other players...including the bottomless pit that only the monk can see so he is occupied trying to keep the players away from that instead of whacking worgs.
You could try pulsing the player knowledge. The enemies move and attack on their initiative but you only update their position on the battlemat on the monks turn or when they make an attack(don't update the position of anything outside the monks sense radius). Also keep usual blinded condition rules for the combat rolls. That way it's like the monk calling out enemies on their turn but players only stumble on opponents on their turn.
Edit: if they hit and run position them with one space the direction they started running to emulate disappearing in the mist
Make a smaller map and use the center as the monk's starting location, use 'blips' and dots to mark locations he feels/sees do not differ the color for the party from the frogs if the monk cant see the party, as he knows something is there but not what. Make the player keep track of what he should and should not hit, if he fails to do so then clearly in character he isnt focused.
When the worgs are attacking place MORE down than what there are. This is because the PCs who cant see roughly know where they are but not the exact spot, making them roughly guess where the worg is because their meta knowledge isnt extremely helpful except for direction. Inform them that this is the method you are using (aka fake placements) due to their character only having a rough idea.
Want them to feel stalked and hunted? Perhaps the horses start to act out occassionally as an omen. Combine this with wind shifts that bring them a stench a Perception check will let them notice so they know something is there. If they double back perhaps they find only traces of vegetation trampled along their path, along with a few scattered bloodied bones as the Worgs eat animals whilst trailing them.
A difficult to identify creature scurrying far ahead of them (whether a worg or small animal fleeing) which retreats away quickly. Do they chase it? Maybe the person farthest back gets assuaulted if they divide, but only momentarily before they are disengaged from and the Worgs wrap around to their front now, trying to take advantage of them being split. This will help the party be fearful of wildly running towards things as the party will be safer together.
Edit side note: a lot of people are telling you they aren't hidden but keep in mind the creators of DnD encourage tweaking to suit your needs, so if you redefine hidden for the Worgs in this encounter you are 100% in the right. If you say the only way to find them is to roll a d20 and get a 4 then you are in your right. Dont let anyone tell you what you can and can't do at the end of the day, otherwise you lose your creativity to people who cant leave the lines of the rules. The world isn't going to end if you change the results and standards for hiding in one encounter when it makes sense.
You could let the monk use his bonus action to tell the others where an enemy is. Just one per round, and let that negate the disadvantage, but only against that opponent. If they still want to attack a different opponent, they can, just at disadvantage. And the monk can still attack whichever they like. He attacks one, shouts over there, and the rest of the party goes for the over there one.
It ends up putting a pretty big tactical burden on the monk though, so it would probably only work if the player is up to it.
1) RAW, the worgs are not HIDDEN, they have to be both unseen and unheard to be hidden. In this case, most of the characters just can't see them but can hear them. Assuming they aren't moving silently, making stealth checks or trying to hide, then, RAW the characters still know where they are within the 5' squares represented by the battle grid. In this case, play it as normal and just give the players who can't see them disadvantage on the attack rolls and the creatures with blindsight have advantage attacking the players that can't see them. The monk is straight rolls since they can see each other.
2) If you want the worgs to be stealthy and silent, essentially hidden from the other players then RAW, the players don't know where the opponents are and have to guess what square to attack. An attack is made at disadvantage and only hits if something is in the location attacked. This would make the encounter much more challenging since the monk would not likely be able to describe where the worgs are on each turn with sufficient accuracy to enable the other characters to figure out what square to attack. Though, if they want to focus fire, he might be able to describe the location of a primary target and the monk becomes a target caller.
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3) Finally, you could just play it using theatre of the mind. You don't really need minis and battlemaps for this since folks can't see their targets anyway, just hear them, so they can just narrate their actions and you adjudicate what happens.
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One last comment about creating a scenario where the monk shines. I don't think this is a big deal. Vision is a constant part of the game and warlocks with devils sight and darkness or shadows of moil make use of this mechanic all the time. In this case, the monk isn't even getting advantage on attacks, just avoiding disadvantage on his attacks and advantage by the opponents. The Alert feat does much the same in negating the attackers advantage though it doesn't help avoid the disadvantage on the character's attacks.
I agree theatre of the mind is the way to run something like this. Also allow the players to play creatively allow them to use their abilities/resources to solve the problem of the mist. Not allowing them to overcome the mist because its the encounter you designed is RR them. As a DM your job isn't to know the solutions but to present the problems to your players. The onus is on them to find a solution.
This game is all about imagination and creativity the more you allow the use of these the richer your games will become.
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Hi !
Some background: I just started running an Eberron Campaign centered on the mournland and my party is entering it through the thick wall of magical mist that sorrounds it. My idea was to have them be hunted by some mutated worgs with blindsight that stalk them and attack from the mist where the party can't see them, first with hit and run tactics weakening them, maybe soloing out one of them, and then all out attacking with their whole pack. The party will essentially be blind in the mist, all but one: The blind monk with echolocation (daredevil style).
Now my question: How do I run this encounter without giving my players meta knowledge ? Especially using a battlemat ? The monk will probably know where the worgs are at, so she can "see" them. But Im afraid of placing down miniatures on the map for the worgs because it gives the other players meta knowledge. I want them to feel hunted, scared and lost in the mist, feeling like prey, but dont want it to be frustrating. How do I emulate the effect of them not seeing anything in the mist ? (I was even thinking of blindfolding all but the blind player or running the encounter behind the dm screen and only tell them what they see). Any tips ?
(Minor secondary question: How do I better create that feeling of restlessness, rush and fear from them being stalked, hunted and chased by the worgs while blind and lost in a magical dread inducing mist ?)
Addition: They travel on horse back and have some House deneith mercenary NPCs with them. I plan to solo out and kill some of the NPCs and/or horses before the encounter starts.
In my experience, you can't, I ran something like this once but with a type of Wolves that teleport
from a balance standpoint, it's really an unfair encounter. 99% of the party can't use any of their attacks or abilities making it seem like it's set up just for the Monk to show off. The way I did something similar was to make it an Ability check they need to succeed 4-6 checks. make the DC something like 17 where they have to use their heads to come up with a way through. When they fail either they hear worgs But don't tell them what it is just they hear this series of low growling from all around them, By now the Monk should try to use echolocation just describe them without naming them, then if they fail again one gets bit but combat doesn't fully start so they get nervous. Once they make the successes Then have them find a decent size clearing, only to have them attack by leaping in and out of the fog that surrounds them.
Well you could just fall back on the game mechanic that is there that they have disadvantage to hit. That way, it will run like a normal encounter and the monk will just not have that disadvantage. That doesn't set the mood that you are going for though.
You could try a double blind. 2 identical maps, one with everything visible on the battle mat that you and the monk can see. And one with only what the other players see (major terrain features, the relative positioning between themselves, maybe a worg if they are engaged with it. The monk can try to communicate info to the other players...including the bottomless pit that only the monk can see so he is occupied trying to keep the players away from that instead of whacking worgs.
Everyone is the main character of their story
You could try pulsing the player knowledge. The enemies move and attack on their initiative but you only update their position on the battlemat on the monks turn or when they make an attack(don't update the position of anything outside the monks sense radius). Also keep usual blinded condition rules for the combat rolls. That way it's like the monk calling out enemies on their turn but players only stumble on opponents on their turn.
Edit: if they hit and run position them with one space the direction they started running to emulate disappearing in the mist
Make a smaller map and use the center as the monk's starting location, use 'blips' and dots to mark locations he feels/sees do not differ the color for the party from the frogs if the monk cant see the party, as he knows something is there but not what. Make the player keep track of what he should and should not hit, if he fails to do so then clearly in character he isnt focused.
When the worgs are attacking place MORE down than what there are. This is because the PCs who cant see roughly know where they are but not the exact spot, making them roughly guess where the worg is because their meta knowledge isnt extremely helpful except for direction. Inform them that this is the method you are using (aka fake placements) due to their character only having a rough idea.
Want them to feel stalked and hunted? Perhaps the horses start to act out occassionally as an omen. Combine this with wind shifts that bring them a stench a Perception check will let them notice so they know something is there. If they double back perhaps they find only traces of vegetation trampled along their path, along with a few scattered bloodied bones as the Worgs eat animals whilst trailing them.
A difficult to identify creature scurrying far ahead of them (whether a worg or small animal fleeing) which retreats away quickly. Do they chase it? Maybe the person farthest back gets assuaulted if they divide, but only momentarily before they are disengaged from and the Worgs wrap around to their front now, trying to take advantage of them being split. This will help the party be fearful of wildly running towards things as the party will be safer together.
Edit side note: a lot of people are telling you they aren't hidden but keep in mind the creators of DnD encourage tweaking to suit your needs, so if you redefine hidden for the Worgs in this encounter you are 100% in the right. If you say the only way to find them is to roll a d20 and get a 4 then you are in your right. Dont let anyone tell you what you can and can't do at the end of the day, otherwise you lose your creativity to people who cant leave the lines of the rules. The world isn't going to end if you change the results and standards for hiding in one encounter when it makes sense.
You could let the monk use his bonus action to tell the others where an enemy is. Just one per round, and let that negate the disadvantage, but only against that opponent. If they still want to attack a different opponent, they can, just at disadvantage. And the monk can still attack whichever they like. He attacks one, shouts over there, and the rest of the party goes for the over there one.
It ends up putting a pretty big tactical burden on the monk though, so it would probably only work if the player is up to it.
There are a few ways to look at it ...
1) RAW, the worgs are not HIDDEN, they have to be both unseen and unheard to be hidden. In this case, most of the characters just can't see them but can hear them. Assuming they aren't moving silently, making stealth checks or trying to hide, then, RAW the characters still know where they are within the 5' squares represented by the battle grid. In this case, play it as normal and just give the players who can't see them disadvantage on the attack rolls and the creatures with blindsight have advantage attacking the players that can't see them. The monk is straight rolls since they can see each other.
2) If you want the worgs to be stealthy and silent, essentially hidden from the other players then RAW, the players don't know where the opponents are and have to guess what square to attack. An attack is made at disadvantage and only hits if something is in the location attacked. This would make the encounter much more challenging since the monk would not likely be able to describe where the worgs are on each turn with sufficient accuracy to enable the other characters to figure out what square to attack. Though, if they want to focus fire, he might be able to describe the location of a primary target and the monk becomes a target caller.
-----
3) Finally, you could just play it using theatre of the mind. You don't really need minis and battlemaps for this since folks can't see their targets anyway, just hear them, so they can just narrate their actions and you adjudicate what happens.
-----
One last comment about creating a scenario where the monk shines. I don't think this is a big deal. Vision is a constant part of the game and warlocks with devils sight and darkness or shadows of moil make use of this mechanic all the time. In this case, the monk isn't even getting advantage on attacks, just avoiding disadvantage on his attacks and advantage by the opponents. The Alert feat does much the same in negating the attackers advantage though it doesn't help avoid the disadvantage on the character's attacks.
I agree theatre of the mind is the way to run something like this. Also allow the players to play creatively allow them to use their abilities/resources to solve the problem of the mist. Not allowing them to overcome the mist because its the encounter you designed is RR them. As a DM your job isn't to know the solutions but to present the problems to your players. The onus is on them to find a solution.
This game is all about imagination and creativity the more you allow the use of these the richer your games will become.