A little over a year ago I decided to get back into DMing and running a campaign. I started DnD way back with the original Chainmail game that would become Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. When I picked up a copy of the 5e Player's Handbook and DMG I was hooked. This was the way the game should have always been. Then I found this wonderful resource of D&D Beyond and realized my nerd hobby had gone mainstream. Man was I surprised.
So I got up to speed with the new rules and crafted a campaign that was in-depth had lots of political intrigue and of course creatures to fight and dungeons to explore. All of the pillars of the game were in place. And since I have a talent for not only writing and art I can do voices so the NPC's would come to life for the players and were more three dimensional. I had a large group at first of seven players but soon two dropped out due to other commitments and we were down to a core group of five dedicated players. Things were going along well except one of the players was stuck in a mode of hack and slash gaming and trying to WIN. I was trying to created an adventuring group that was out to right wrongs, engage in a high fantasy adventure and really develop their character's personalities. Early on I adopted the Milestones model so that party would advance in levels a bit faster.
But there were personality conflicts among several of the players, we also used SLACK to provide an online mode to continue to play when we could not regularly meet in person. And that is where the problems really came to surface. Some players would say and do things online that they might not do when sitting across the table from their fellow players. The rancor built up and multiple times I halted the campaign in order to get folks to behave and remember that there is a social contract when everyone comes together to play in a campaign. Sadly it failed and things came to a head this past weekend when we were able to finally have an in person session. I went home disappointed and informed the group that I was ending the campaign.
I can honestly state I did all I could to address player's concerns and issues and make sure everyone was getting their moment in the game. I can say that two players in particular just could not tamp down their egos and there were irreconcilable differences. I think I made the right call to end the campaign even though we had been going almost a year. It was no longer fun or worth it to me.
I will at some point start up another group, just not this group. There are several game stores near me that are eager for experienced DMs and I may give that a go. I post this in part to just say try to not allow your being a DM consume all your time and energy. Real life is far more interesting. I am disappointed that this was such an expenditure of effort to have it fail. I will get over it and I do not fault the game system. 5e is fantastic, but I need to find the right group of players. I will take this as a learning experience and try to not make the same mistakes going forward.
Sorry things went sour, but it looks like it hasn't dimmed your love for the game. If you're a good DM, you'll always find the right players eventually.
All the players were disappointed but understood and those who knew they were the cause apologized and at least acknowledged they had killed the game. Everyone stated to me online that they had never played in a more in-depth and immersive game. So I will pat myself on the back for that. I will check out the local scene. I was driving 45 minutes to an hour to meet with the various players (some of who were also coming from long drives) and that too had an impact. It was just that I knew many of these folks for a number of years and some of us had gamed from long ago under 1st edition and even 3rd edition DnD.
But yeah I am a long time DM and 5e has been what I have been looking for in a RPG for some time. And now all the resources both physical and especially online make working up a campaign much easier. So yes I will find another group and give it another go.
Awesome you're going to give it another go. One suggestion for playing online when not able to meet face to face is to try using Discord with video. This helps enforce the same social behavior as in person.
It sounds like you did everything you could, and your player all respected and understood that. The sad fact is not everyone will get along at the game table. Thank you for trying, and for recognizing that it was time to walk away from the game as it became toxic.
Game stores are a great resource! I also recommend asking other friends and family if you haven't recently. The explosion of popularity in D&D even in the last year might have sparked interest in people you know. Also if you are a fan of any streamed shows I recommend checking out their discords/forums/facebook groups for players. Chances are good that fans of the same show will be looking to play D&D in a similar style to that show, and that might mitigate some cohesion issues.
You're point about not letting DMing consume your life is a valuable one. I also recommend taking this moment as a chance to take a break from DMing and go be a player for a while! All DMs need a break from being "in charge" for a while, and after ending your campaign you might enjoy the relaxed playtime even more.
I recommend you play in a game as a player to relax and enjoy it from the other side of the screen before going back to being the DM. If you start with a totally new group you don't even have to write a new campaign. Playing will also give you a chance to experience that class of player under the 5e rules, and then you can write better adventures when it comes to that class.
Good luck brother ...
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I had a number of fun and interesting NPC's that I worked up as full characters for my game. One was a half-orc fighter that talked with a Russian accent and I had a ton of fun with him interacting with the party. I may just re-work him back to first level and find a game as you suggest and just play him for all he is worth.
That's the real secret quest of Dungeons & Dragons, finding a group that can stick together and make time to play once or twice a month. It's more like a unicorn once people get careers, families, and other life obligations.
Get back on that horse, you'll find a good group eventually.
I was lucky enough to have a group with 3 players who enjoyed dming. So one of us would dm until they felt like they needed a break and then someone else would take over expanding the shared world. It eventually fell apart for me when one of the DMs had an event that would destroy reality if we didn’t stop it. We lost. Seven years of world building gone. I lost interest at that point.
I was lucky enough to have a group with 3 players who enjoyed dming. So one of us would dm until they felt like they needed a break and then someone else would take over expanding the shared world. It eventually fell apart for me when one of the DMs had an event that would destroy reality if we didn’t stop it. We lost. Seven years of world building gone. I lost interest at that point.
That is so sad. I had a world were I had drawn countless maps for it and the players all owned houses and they had all put in a lot of work into it but then there was fighting between players and I had to cancel much like the other guy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Murder Hobo Help(a great place for new dm's to get help with murderhobos and a great place to share how you've delt with murderhobos)
I have been talking with some other DM's on other forums and it is unfortunately a common problem. It only takes one person to ruin it for everyone. The perfect DnD group is a bit of a unicorn of course, so we have to do the best that we can. Going forward when next time I set up a campaign I am going to consider putting forth the following to all the players before the campaign begins.
Players should keep their backstories simple and let the campaign their interactions with the other PC's and NPC's form their characters. Sure have a foundation as to what your character’s motivations are but do not create something so complex that seeks to obligate the DM to have to find a way to work your backstory into the game. The DM and other players are under no such obligation.
All role play is out in the open even when it is supposed to be secret from the other players. Players are under an obligation to role play only the information they would reasonably know.
There is an unwritten Social Obligation or Contract between the players to each other and to the DM. Be courteous, do not argue and communicate concerns openly even if it means stopping the flow of a game in session.
Give your fellow players and the DM a benefit of a doubt.
Keep personal issues and animosities at home, they have no place in the game. This is supposed to be fun.
And most important this is supposed to be fun and entertaining. If you become too wrapped up in your character and the action it is time to take a break and if needed bow out of the campaign.
That sucks but it sounds like you made the right choice. I just got back in myself after not running for 26 years. Group of good kids ages 13 fo 17 and 3 adults, one of which is a dad to two of them. Group of 10.
Just wanted to say I was in Kim's campaign and it was brilliant. Totally re-imagined what DnD could be, and I've played every version but 4 (turns head and spits). I'll play in any of his games any time any where. It was all personality clashes and players not communicating well that killed it. Next time we will do better.
I have been talking with some other DM's on other forums and it is unfortunately a common problem. It only takes one person to ruin it for everyone. The perfect DnD group is a bit of a unicorn of course, so we have to do the best that we can. Going forward when next time I set up a campaign I am going to consider putting forth the following to all the players before the campaign begins.
Players should keep their backstories simple and let the campaign their interactions with the other PC's and NPC's form their characters. Sure have a foundation as to what your character’s motivations are but do not create something so complex that seeks to obligate the DM to have to find a way to work your backstory into the game. The DM and other players are under no such obligation.
All role play is out in the open even when it is supposed to be secret from the other players. Players are under an obligation to role play only the information they would reasonably know.
There is an unwritten Social Obligation or Contract between the players to each other and to the DM. Be courteous, do not argue and communicate concerns openly even if it means stopping the flow of a game in session.
Give your fellow players and the DM a benefit of a doubt.
Keep personal issues and animosities at home, they have no place in the game. This is supposed to be fun.
And most important this is supposed to be fun and entertaining. If you become too wrapped up in your character and the action it is time to take a break and if needed bow out of the campaign.
Thoughts?
Going off 2.
i try to encourage people to use voices for their chars. For exactly that reason. said in your chars voice. It’s said out loud. Period. Said in your normal voice. It’s either a question, a mechanic, or OOC.
As to the information they wouldn’t know. I impose punishments for metagaming. Disadvantage on an upcoming roll. And so they can’t prepare for that I roll behind a screen for which roll of theirs to randomly have it.
repeat offenders. Just gone. But I also start up front the 100% zero tolerance for meta gaming.
repeat offenders. Just gone. But I also start up front the 100% zero tolerance for meta gaming.
I'm convinced some people don't know that they are meta gaming. One of the guys in the campaign Kim is referring to was repeatedly told that he was going way meta (a 17 year old street urchin rogue that knew advanced combat tactics). But even when met with the truth and promising to do better he kept making the same sort of actions.
The real issue is there were friendships involved and you don't want to kick a friend out of a game. And because of that we let things go too far.
repeat offenders. Just gone. But I also start up front the 100% zero tolerance for meta gaming.
I'm convinced some people don't know that they are meta gaming. One of the guys in the campaign Kim is referring to was repeatedly told that he was going way meta (a 17 year old street urchin rogue that knew advanced combat tactics). But even when met with the truth and promising to do better he kept making the same sort of actions.
The real issue is there were friendships involved and you don't want to kick a friend out of a game. And because of that we let things go too far.
What race?
and in your world.. what constitutes adult.
and how “urchin” did you let him go?
we talking being a homeless runaway millionaire in Beverly Hills. Or full on “gangs of New York”?
edit- also not knowing the scope of your world and such.
the 17 year old urchin thing *could* (I doubt it but it could) be reasonable...
but yeah. When it’s a bunch of people that are good friends. I get how that’ll complicate things when some/one try and take advantage/are more selfish.
A little over a year ago I decided to get back into DMing and running a campaign. I started DnD way back with the original Chainmail game that would become Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. When I picked up a copy of the 5e Player's Handbook and DMG I was hooked. This was the way the game should have always been. Then I found this wonderful resource of D&D Beyond and realized my nerd hobby had gone mainstream. Man was I surprised.
So I got up to speed with the new rules and crafted a campaign that was in-depth had lots of political intrigue and of course creatures to fight and dungeons to explore. All of the pillars of the game were in place. And since I have a talent for not only writing and art I can do voices so the NPC's would come to life for the players and were more three dimensional. I had a large group at first of seven players but soon two dropped out due to other commitments and we were down to a core group of five dedicated players. Things were going along well except one of the players was stuck in a mode of hack and slash gaming and trying to WIN. I was trying to created an adventuring group that was out to right wrongs, engage in a high fantasy adventure and really develop their character's personalities. Early on I adopted the Milestones model so that party would advance in levels a bit faster.
But there were personality conflicts among several of the players, we also used SLACK to provide an online mode to continue to play when we could not regularly meet in person. And that is where the problems really came to surface. Some players would say and do things online that they might not do when sitting across the table from their fellow players. The rancor built up and multiple times I halted the campaign in order to get folks to behave and remember that there is a social contract when everyone comes together to play in a campaign. Sadly it failed and things came to a head this past weekend when we were able to finally have an in person session. I went home disappointed and informed the group that I was ending the campaign.
I can honestly state I did all I could to address player's concerns and issues and make sure everyone was getting their moment in the game. I can say that two players in particular just could not tamp down their egos and there were irreconcilable differences. I think I made the right call to end the campaign even though we had been going almost a year. It was no longer fun or worth it to me.
I will at some point start up another group, just not this group. There are several game stores near me that are eager for experienced DMs and I may give that a go. I post this in part to just say try to not allow your being a DM consume all your time and energy. Real life is far more interesting. I am disappointed that this was such an expenditure of effort to have it fail. I will get over it and I do not fault the game system. 5e is fantastic, but I need to find the right group of players. I will take this as a learning experience and try to not make the same mistakes going forward.
Sorry things went sour, but it looks like it hasn't dimmed your love for the game. If you're a good DM, you'll always find the right players eventually.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
All the players were disappointed but understood and those who knew they were the cause apologized and at least acknowledged they had killed the game. Everyone stated to me online that they had never played in a more in-depth and immersive game. So I will pat myself on the back for that. I will check out the local scene. I was driving 45 minutes to an hour to meet with the various players (some of who were also coming from long drives) and that too had an impact. It was just that I knew many of these folks for a number of years and some of us had gamed from long ago under 1st edition and even 3rd edition DnD.
But yeah I am a long time DM and 5e has been what I have been looking for in a RPG for some time. And now all the resources both physical and especially online make working up a campaign much easier. So yes I will find another group and give it another go.
Awesome you're going to give it another go. One suggestion for playing online when not able to meet face to face is to try using Discord with video. This helps enforce the same social behavior as in person.
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InsiderIt sounds like you did everything you could, and your player all respected and understood that. The sad fact is not everyone will get along at the game table. Thank you for trying, and for recognizing that it was time to walk away from the game as it became toxic.
Game stores are a great resource! I also recommend asking other friends and family if you haven't recently. The explosion of popularity in D&D even in the last year might have sparked interest in people you know. Also if you are a fan of any streamed shows I recommend checking out their discords/forums/facebook groups for players. Chances are good that fans of the same show will be looking to play D&D in a similar style to that show, and that might mitigate some cohesion issues.
You're point about not letting DMing consume your life is a valuable one. I also recommend taking this moment as a chance to take a break from DMing and go be a player for a while! All DMs need a break from being "in charge" for a while, and after ending your campaign you might enjoy the relaxed playtime even more.
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
I recommend you play in a game as a player to relax and enjoy it from the other side of the screen before going back to being the DM. If you start with a totally new group you don't even have to write a new campaign. Playing will also give you a chance to experience that class of player under the 5e rules, and then you can write better adventures when it comes to that class.
Good luck brother ...
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I had a number of fun and interesting NPC's that I worked up as full characters for my game. One was a half-orc fighter that talked with a Russian accent and I had a ton of fun with him interacting with the party. I may just re-work him back to first level and find a game as you suggest and just play him for all he is worth.
That's the real secret quest of Dungeons & Dragons, finding a group that can stick together and make time to play once or twice a month. It's more like a unicorn once people get careers, families, and other life obligations.
Get back on that horse, you'll find a good group eventually.
I was lucky enough to have a group with 3 players who enjoyed dming. So one of us would dm until they felt like they needed a break and then someone else would take over expanding the shared world. It eventually fell apart for me when one of the DMs had an event that would destroy reality if we didn’t stop it. We lost. Seven years of world building gone. I lost interest at that point.
That is so sad. I had a world were I had drawn countless maps for it and the players all owned houses and they had all put in a lot of work into it but then there was fighting between players and I had to cancel much like the other guy.
Murder Hobo Help (a great place for new dm's to get help with murderhobos and a great place to share how you've delt with murderhobos)
I have been talking with some other DM's on other forums and it is unfortunately a common problem. It only takes one person to ruin it for everyone. The perfect DnD group is a bit of a unicorn of course, so we have to do the best that we can. Going forward when next time I set up a campaign I am going to consider putting forth the following to all the players before the campaign begins.
Thoughts?
That sucks but it sounds like you made the right choice. I just got back in myself after not running for 26 years. Group of good kids ages 13 fo 17 and 3 adults, one of which is a dad to two of them. Group of 10.
Just wanted to say I was in Kim's campaign and it was brilliant. Totally re-imagined what DnD could be, and I've played every version but 4 (turns head and spits). I'll play in any of his games any time any where. It was all personality clashes and players not communicating well that killed it. Next time we will do better.
Marc
Going off 2.
i try to encourage people to use voices for their chars. For exactly that reason.
said in your chars voice. It’s said out loud. Period. Said in your normal voice. It’s either a question, a mechanic, or OOC.
As to the information they wouldn’t know. I impose punishments for metagaming. Disadvantage on an upcoming roll. And so they can’t prepare for that I roll behind a screen for which roll of theirs to randomly have it.
repeat offenders. Just gone. But I also start up front the 100% zero tolerance for meta gaming.
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I'm convinced some people don't know that they are meta gaming. One of the guys in the campaign Kim is referring to was repeatedly told that he was going way meta (a 17 year old street urchin rogue that knew advanced combat tactics). But even when met with the truth and promising to do better he kept making the same sort of actions.
The real issue is there were friendships involved and you don't want to kick a friend out of a game. And because of that we let things go too far.
Yeah, that is pretty much how it went.
Now I am sad.
What race?
and in your world.. what constitutes adult.
and how “urchin” did you let him go?
we talking being a homeless runaway millionaire in Beverly Hills. Or full on “gangs of New York”?
edit- also not knowing the scope of your world and such.
the 17 year old urchin thing *could* (I doubt it but it could) be reasonable...
but yeah. When it’s a bunch of people that are good friends. I get how that’ll complicate things when some/one try and take advantage/are more selfish.
its tough being a DM sometimes
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