I was having a disagreement with one of my players as he believes you can counterspell a divine smite. I don't believe you can and am sure of this. Can someone please tell me if I am right or wrong in this. Thank you.
It has to say " cast" to be counterspellable. That includes innate casting and innate casting (Psionics), but does not include anything that does not involve the word cast.
You can't counterspell divine smite. It is not a spell even though it expends a spell slot. It is not cast.
"Casting Time: I reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell"
One thing to keep in mind though is that when using counterspell you also have to SEE the spell being cast and be within 60'. A spell requires V,S,M components and if no V or S components are visible then it can't be counterspelled. You can't counterspell a subtle spell from a sorcerer and you can't counterspell a spell cast from a wand because neither of these has any components that you can see which are needed to trigger counterspell.
You don’t actually have to see the caster to counterspell something just have to know they are casting the spell. An ability like psionic casting or the subtle spell metamagic gets past counter spells requirements to know the spells being cast. Aka subtle spell is awesome for ppl who don’t want their spells countered
You don’t actually have to see the caster to counterspell something just have to know they are casting the spell. An ability like psionic casting or the subtle spell metamagic gets past counter spells requirements to know the spells being cast. Aka subtle spell is awesome for ppl who don’t want their spells countered
Counterspell’s trigger is literally “when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell.”
It would probably be affected by an Antimagic Field or a Beholder's Antimagic Cone, since smite is a magical effect.
Nah. Smites aren't a "magical effect" in that sense. For example, you can't dispel smites and they can't be detected with detct magic. Since you can't counterspell them you can't antimagic them either. If if you would consider them a "magic effect", also conisder this from the description of anitmagic field. "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it." What are divine smites if not created (or at least caused by) a deity? :)
It would probably be affected by an Antimagic Field or a Beholder's Antimagic Cone, since smite is a magical effect.
Nah. Smites aren't a "magical effect" in that sense. For example, you can't dispel smites and they can't be detected with detct magic. Since you can't counterspell them you can't antimagic them either. If if you would consider them a "magic effect", also conisder this from the description of anitmagic field. "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it." What are divine smites if not created (or at least caused by) a deity? :)
Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will because a paladin does not require a deity to have their power (which is why they are Charisma casters and not Wisdom)?
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
It would probably be affected by an Antimagic Field or a Beholder's Antimagic Cone, since smite is a magical effect.
Nah. Smites aren't a "magical effect" in that sense. For example, you can't dispel smites and they can't be detected with detct magic. Since you can't counterspell them you can't antimagic them either. If if you would consider them a "magic effect", also conisder this from the description of anitmagic field. "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it." What are divine smites if not created (or at least caused by) a deity? :)
Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will because a paladin does not require a deity to have their power (which is why they are Charisma casters and not Wisdom)?
That also works. But still not magic that can be counterspell or subject to an antimagic field. :)
It would probably be affected by an Antimagic Field or a Beholder's Antimagic Cone, since smite is a magical effect.
Nah. Smites aren't a "magical effect" in that sense. For example, you can't dispel smites and they can't be detected with detct magic. Since you can't counterspell them you can't antimagic them either. If if you would consider them a "magic effect", also conisder this from the description of anitmagic field. "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it." What are divine smites if not created (or at least caused by) a deity? :)
Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will because a paladin does not require a deity to have their power (which is why they are Charisma casters and not Wisdom)?
That also works. But still not magic that can be counterspell or subject to an antimagic field. :)
I agree it can't be counterspelled due to not being a *spell*, but it CAN be subject to an antimagic field which suppresses magical effects.
SAC:
Is it a magic item?
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
Is it a spell attack?
Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
Does its description say it’s magical?
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
Divine Smites are fueled by the use of spell slots, thus are magical, and are suppressed by antimagic fields because they are coming from a mortal, not from an artifact or a deity.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
It would probably be affected by an Antimagic Field or a Beholder's Antimagic Cone, since smite is a magical effect.
Nah. Smites aren't a "magical effect" in that sense. For example, you can't dispel smites and they can't be detected with detct magic. Since you can't counterspell them you can't antimagic them either. If if you would consider them a "magic effect", also conisder this from the description of anitmagic field. "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it." What are divine smites if not created (or at least caused by) a deity? :)
Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will because a paladin does not require a deity to have their power (which is why they are Charisma casters and not Wisdom)?
That also works. But still not magic that can be counterspell or subject to an antimagic field. :)
I agree it can't be counterspelled due to not being a *spell*, but it CAN be subject to an antimagic field which suppresses magical effects.
SAC:
Is it a magic item?
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
Is it a spell attack?
Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
Does its description say it’s magical?
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
Divine Smites are fueled by the use of spell slots, thus are magical, and are suppressed by antimagic fields because they are coming from a mortal, not from an artifact or a deity.
If they come from a mortal (especially if you also claim that they are "Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will") they are per definition not divine.
The fact that they are fueled by spell slots is a balance/resource issue but yes, if you use the SAC then they count as a magical effect and thus would be subject to an antimagic field. A bit contradictory perhaps.
It would probably be affected by an Antimagic Field or a Beholder's Antimagic Cone, since smite is a magical effect.
Nah. Smites aren't a "magical effect" in that sense. For example, you can't dispel smites and they can't be detected with detct magic. Since you can't counterspell them you can't antimagic them either. If if you would consider them a "magic effect", also conisder this from the description of anitmagic field. "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it." What are divine smites if not created (or at least caused by) a deity? :)
Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will because a paladin does not require a deity to have their power (which is why they are Charisma casters and not Wisdom)?
That also works. But still not magic that can be counterspell or subject to an antimagic field. :)
I agree it can't be counterspelled due to not being a *spell*, but it CAN be subject to an antimagic field which suppresses magical effects.
SAC:
Is it a magic item?
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
Is it a spell attack?
Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
Does its description say it’s magical?
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
Divine Smites are fueled by the use of spell slots, thus are magical, and are suppressed by antimagic fields because they are coming from a mortal, not from an artifact or a deity.
If they come from a mortal (especially if you also claim that they are "Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will") they are per definition not divine.
The fact that they are fueled by spell slots is a balance/resource issue but yes, if you use the SAC then they count as a magical effect and thus would be subject to an antimagic field. A bit contradictory perhaps.
Rules wise, there is no contradiction. the SAC is Rules as Written, official clarifications to the rulebooks. Rulings made by Jeremy Crawford that WotC has decided to codify as additional rules.
as far as the Divine part of Divine smite... well, Divine in D&D doesn't mean comes from gods necessarily, but comes from a power in the world that is of the same ilk as the gods. Faith, belief, dedication, honor, loyalty; these are all divine concepts.
Proof of this can be seen in Eberron where the gods aren't proven to be physically real, and yet clerics are still able to draw spells to cast from their daily prayers.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
It's called CounterSPELL. What's the argument about? It mostly boils down to the DM's interpretation of whether or not a feature is considered a spell.
It would probably be affected by an Antimagic Field or a Beholder's Antimagic Cone, since smite is a magical effect.
Nah. Smites aren't a "magical effect" in that sense. For example, you can't dispel smites and they can't be detected with detct magic. Since you can't counterspell them you can't antimagic them either. If if you would consider them a "magic effect", also conisder this from the description of anitmagic field. "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it." What are divine smites if not created (or at least caused by) a deity? :)
Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will because a paladin does not require a deity to have their power (which is why they are Charisma casters and not Wisdom)?
That also works. But still not magic that can be counterspell or subject to an antimagic field. :)
I agree it can't be counterspelled due to not being a *spell*, but it CAN be subject to an antimagic field which suppresses magical effects.
SAC:
Is it a magic item?
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
Is it a spell attack?
Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
Does its description say it’s magical?
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
Divine Smites are fueled by the use of spell slots, thus are magical, and are suppressed by antimagic fields because they are coming from a mortal, not from an artifact or a deity.
If they come from a mortal (especially if you also claim that they are "Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will") they are per definition not divine.
The fact that they are fueled by spell slots is a balance/resource issue but yes, if you use the SAC then they count as a magical effect and thus would be subject to an antimagic field. A bit contradictory perhaps.
Rules wise, there is no contradiction. the SAC is Rules as Written, official clarifications to the rulebooks. Rulings made by Jeremy Crawford that WotC has decided to codify as additional rules.
as far as the Divine part of Divine smite... well, Divine in D&D doesn't mean comes from gods necessarily, but comes from a power in the world that is of the same ilk as the gods. Faith, belief, dedication, honor, loyalty; these are all divine concepts.
Proof of this can be seen in Eberron where the gods aren't proven to be physically real, and yet clerics are still able to draw spells to cast from their daily prayers.
SAC is not RAW, they're official interpretations of RAW. Unless it's in the actual game books, you can ignore them (you can ignore what's in the books as, but you get what I mean). But the contradictions I was referring to are the ones you have presented. But we're getting off topic now.
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Hey everyone,
I was having a disagreement with one of my players as he believes you can counterspell a divine smite. I don't believe you can and am sure of this. Can someone please tell me if I am right or wrong in this. Thank you.
You are right, since Divine Smite is not a spell and is not casted by a creature.
It would probably be affected by an Antimagic Field or a Beholder's Antimagic Cone, since smite is a magical effect.
Thank you. I'm sure that was the case
It has to say " cast" to be counterspellable. That includes innate casting and innate casting (Psionics), but does not include anything that does not involve the word cast.
You can't counter divine smite, as divine smite is not a spell.
I exist, and I guess so does this
You can't counterspell divine smite. It is not a spell even though it expends a spell slot. It is not cast.
"Casting Time: I reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell"
One thing to keep in mind though is that when using counterspell you also have to SEE the spell being cast and be within 60'. A spell requires V,S,M components and if no V or S components are visible then it can't be counterspelled. You can't counterspell a subtle spell from a sorcerer and you can't counterspell a spell cast from a wand because neither of these has any components that you can see which are needed to trigger counterspell.
You don’t actually have to see the caster to counterspell something just have to know they are casting the spell. An ability like psionic casting or the subtle spell metamagic gets past counter spells requirements to know the spells being cast. Aka subtle spell is awesome for ppl who don’t want their spells countered
Counterspell’s trigger is literally “when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell.”
Nah. Smites aren't a "magical effect" in that sense. For example, you can't dispel smites and they can't be detected with detct magic. Since you can't counterspell them you can't antimagic them either. If if you would consider them a "magic effect", also conisder this from the description of anitmagic field. "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it." What are divine smites if not created (or at least caused by) a deity? :)
Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will because a paladin does not require a deity to have their power (which is why they are Charisma casters and not Wisdom)?
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
That also works. But still not magic that can be counterspell or subject to an antimagic field. :)
I agree it can't be counterspelled due to not being a *spell*, but it CAN be subject to an antimagic field which suppresses magical effects.
SAC:
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
Divine Smites are fueled by the use of spell slots, thus are magical, and are suppressed by antimagic fields because they are coming from a mortal, not from an artifact or a deity.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
If they come from a mortal (especially if you also claim that they are "Manifestations of the paladin's own force of will") they are per definition not divine.
The fact that they are fueled by spell slots is a balance/resource issue but yes, if you use the SAC then they count as a magical effect and thus would be subject to an antimagic field. A bit contradictory perhaps.
Rules wise, there is no contradiction. the SAC is Rules as Written, official clarifications to the rulebooks. Rulings made by Jeremy Crawford that WotC has decided to codify as additional rules.
as far as the Divine part of Divine smite... well, Divine in D&D doesn't mean comes from gods necessarily, but comes from a power in the world that is of the same ilk as the gods. Faith, belief, dedication, honor, loyalty; these are all divine concepts.
Proof of this can be seen in Eberron where the gods aren't proven to be physically real, and yet clerics are still able to draw spells to cast from their daily prayers.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
It's called CounterSPELL. What's the argument about? It mostly boils down to the DM's interpretation of whether or not a feature is considered a spell.
SAC is not RAW, they're official interpretations of RAW. Unless it's in the actual game books, you can ignore them (you can ignore what's in the books as, but you get what I mean). But the contradictions I was referring to are the ones you have presented. But we're getting off topic now.