It’s more complicated for the player but gives them more options to create the character they want.
if it’s for min maxing purposes then be wary, if it makes sense story wise and character wise I would be more open.
say someone is a monk and their character falls out of faith within their order and in that moment of weakness they approached in their dreams by fiend/fey/old gold and allow themselves to be tempted into a contract that unknowingly bonds them in servitude. Thats a pretty compelling hook for the player to RP around
Multiclassing is fun and can create many interesting combinations story-wise and mechanics-wise. I, personally, think it's a great additional option. Some people will use it to further optimize their characters, but many will multiclass for story reasons. If it works story-wise, it's just a cool thing to do and makes for really fun builds.
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I would say... if you are a beginning DM with new players, don't permit it. Explain to your players that it is not to be mean or "cut down their options" or anything like that, but that you are all learning together and let's just learn one class each and get used to the game. Offer that, in the next campaign, you will allow multiclassing.
However, I do allow it myself, but I place restrictions on it. In my campaign it is only allowed for RP reasons, and I do not allow the "dip." How dipping goes depends on the class "dipped" into, but "dipping" is just taking say, 1 class of Rogue to get the level 1 rogue features, but otherwise being, say, a Paladin. This is just min-maxing and I do not allow min-maxing.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Why does your ranger "want to become the greatest archer the world has ever seen and an avatar of death?"
Is it because his family was killed by archers and he wants revenge (Batman style)? Or is it just because you, the player, want to min-max and you are making up a reason to give you an excuse to max out your DPS?
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
My question before allowing it would be, "In character, what is the reason for it?" If it makes sense, yes. If it's just being done to min-max, no.
But that's up to the DM. Some are fine with min-maxing.
Multiclassing is often done for both reasons. There can be a compelling and interesting narrative while at the same time the multiclass offers new versatility or options that synergize well with the base class. To the OP, I allow multiclassing in my games. I like the player/character to have a good reason for the multiclass beyond mechanical advantages just so the player can do a better job of understanding and roleplaying the character as more than a set of numbers on a page. However, it is important to keep in mind that almost any min/max type of decision can be justified on the basis of some interesting narrative as long as the player has a good imagination :)
As an example, I have a 2 hexblade/X lore bard (currently level 16) that has been great fun to play. There are back story reasons for both being a bard and have having some warlock abilities ... they made a mistake in a moment of weakness and don't want to get any deeper in. However, the two levels of hexblade, although well justified in terms of story reasons, also mechanically helps with some "weaknesses" of the lore bard though it also delays the rate of acquiring higher level spells.
It's entirely your call. If you're entirely new to DMing (which if you are, congrats!) then I would recommend restricting it until you have more experience under your belt as it is more work for you to deal with, but if you reach a point where you think you can handle it then it can open up possibilities for your players quite a bit.
In my game that I run, I allow it, and this may be a minority position but I'm perfectly fine with people min-maxing, taking dips, choosing whatever combinations they want, and helping facilitate any story reasons if it needs it; if a player of mine wants to dip into Fighter with the goal of taking the Arcane Archer, then that kinda does necessitate some story building towards it, but if they're planning on going into Champion, then "Hitting The Thing, But Better" does not require an explanation. Ultimately though, do what works best for you. If you decide it's too much work for you, then you are perfectly justified in saying that.
Multiclassing is great, but it is OPTIONAL, and many player's won't use it. I play in, I am the only multiclassed character (fighter/barbarian). The 3 other players are "pure". Also, while multiclassing in my case gave me incredible boosts, this isn't always the case. If players try to abuse it, they are just as likely to end up as an Abserd as that paladin/sorcerer/warlock/rogue that literally replaces the rest of the party. As long as you are okay with having more unique characters at the expense of possible powergaming, go with multiclassing.
PS I made up the paladin/sorcerer/warlock/rogue for this post but Now that I think about it its pretty strong...
In general I have found that it takes a LOT of work to make a Multi-Class powerful. It is often weak because:
Most abilities do not stack, even if they are identical (I.e. Extra attack from Fighter does not stack with Extra Attack from Barbarian - you end up with 2 attacks per round if you are Fighter 5/Barbarian 5)
The lower level abilities are weak compared to what you get for a higher level
Stat Mad-ness
Not saying it isn't possible, but OrtanFang, I would like to check out your Paladin/Sorc/War/Rogue build. It seems unlikely to work. Yeah, a Sorc/Pal or Sorc/War work well, but adding on Paladin and Rogue means giving up a lot. Sor/War works because you are trading spell slots to NOVA Eldritch Blast, and adding on two classes that are not full casters reduces their power. Sorc/Pal works because you are burning the spell slots to again NOVA, this time with Smite. Same problem again, not getting full caster reduces their power.
Pros: More flexibility, interesting combination of features, can help keep a DM on their toes and be more responsive to character builds
Cons: More complicated for both players and the DM, players may feel disappointed if they have a wider range of abilities, but the DM can't plan to include or address them all
And/or: Others have mentioned "min/maxing". There's varied opinions about this. I like min/maxing with some limitations, like, you can only multi-class once, you can't multi-class with a newly built character (in other words, if you start a campaign at a higher level, the character will have to wait to level up before they can multi-class, this forces the player to deal with the consequences of lower level abilities before adding subclass features)
I like this kind of min maxing as a player and a DM. As a DM, I like to build adventures and encounters around my characters. I can create encounters that cause the players special challenges or that showcase some of their abilities. Multi-classing gives me more options to explore as my players simply have more features to work with. Usually, the players are committed to a kind of build when they multi-class too, and they get stoked when their grand plan works out. However, this kind of DMing takes a lot of work and is not for everyone. Players can get frustrated too when you plan an encounter that focuses on their weaknesses, rather than their strengths, and this can also happen by accident when a character is super specialized.
The downside to min/maxing as I see it is that either all the players need to do it, or none of them can. It's really hard to make an encounter work when you have one uber-maxed character and a bunch of average characters. The players of average characters can also get disappointed and frustrated if they feel like their characters are underperforming. Becuase of this, I think its less important whether you allow min/maxing in your campaign, than whether all of the players are on the same page.
I’m relatively new to being a DM, I’ve only been a DM for less than a year. But I permit it when there’s a story reason for it. If a player gives me a good story reason why their character is multiclassing then I say yes. I personally dislike multiclassing my characters when I’m playing, I use feats to “dip” into another class instead but that’s my personal preference.
But, while u study brokerage you admin skills rust, so why so easy to float and keep all abilities? An mma fighter who goes and studied sorcery in the library should lose some of the beefy hp or other fighting prowess
I always allow multiclassing. the world shouldnt be so granular to say that there are just a fixed number of pathways that a character grows. Yes sometimes getting cross-trained gives a specific advantage, but if its a choice all people can have then it doesnt change the balance between players.
New DMs or New players should have no access to multiclassing primarily because it's important they learn the basics of the game. Once you've got the fundamentals down then you can feel free to experiment. I'd actually apply that to all optional rules though. Don't indulge optionals or homebrews until you've mastered the basics.
One way I've done this in the past is to not allow multi-classing until level six. By that point the player has got their subclass abilities, and usually got used to the full range of features of their character's class. I also find that this prevents the min-maxers to a certain extent as by the time you hit level six you're actively aware of where the character's weaknesses are or what things they might like to explore. I've got one Rogue whose character was looking around at all his comrades and decided he wanted a piece of this magic stuff so multi-classed into Wizard and his character has been so fun as a result.
But, while u study brokerage you admin skills rust, so why so easy to float and keep all abilities? An mma fighter who goes and studied sorcery in the library should lose some of the beefy hp or other fighting prowess
They did. Whatever sorcerer levels they took, they got d6 HP instead of d10. Those levels are also a separate path to their next ASI or feat. I’m not sure what more you think they should cost but, to get all real-worldy about it, there are plenty of well-educated athletes out there. It is very common for high level athletes to have completed university and to pursue careers related to their academics following their retirement from athletics.
But, while u study brokerage you admin skills rust, so why so easy to float and keep all abilities? An mma fighter who goes and studied sorcery in the library should lose some of the beefy hp or other fighting prowess
They did. Whatever sorcerer levels they took, they got d6 HP instead of d10. Those levels are also a separate path to their next ASI or feat. I’m not sure what more you think they should cost but, to get all real-worldy about it, there are plenty of well-educated athletes out there. It is very common for high level athletes to have completed university and to pursue careers related to their academics following their retirement from athletics.
I've met plenty of PhDs that can win a bar fight. Allowing for multiclassing has plenty of costs that don't particularly exist IRL.
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Im just wondering should I allow multiclassing for my campaign? what are the ups and downs?
It’s more complicated for the player but gives them more options to create the character they want.
if it’s for min maxing purposes then be wary, if it makes sense story wise and character wise I would be more open.
say someone is a monk and their character falls out of faith within their order and in that moment of weakness they approached in their dreams by fiend/fey/old gold and allow themselves to be tempted into a contract that unknowingly bonds them in servitude. Thats a pretty compelling hook for the player to RP around
Multiclassing is fun and can create many interesting combinations story-wise and mechanics-wise. I, personally, think it's a great additional option. Some people will use it to further optimize their characters, but many will multiclass for story reasons. If it works story-wise, it's just a cool thing to do and makes for really fun builds.
Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
Subclasses | Races | Spells | Magic Items | Monsters | Feats | Backgrounds
I would say... if you are a beginning DM with new players, don't permit it. Explain to your players that it is not to be mean or "cut down their options" or anything like that, but that you are all learning together and let's just learn one class each and get used to the game. Offer that, in the next campaign, you will allow multiclassing.
However, I do allow it myself, but I place restrictions on it. In my campaign it is only allowed for RP reasons, and I do not allow the "dip." How dipping goes depends on the class "dipped" into, but "dipping" is just taking say, 1 class of Rogue to get the level 1 rogue features, but otherwise being, say, a Paladin. This is just min-maxing and I do not allow min-maxing.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Ranger with 3 levels of rogue assassin though
also worth mentioning you might want to hold off until like level 8 considering it. Characters don’t really become their best selves until level 5
My question before allowing it would be, "In character, what is the reason for it?" If it makes sense, yes. If it's just being done to min-max, no.
But that's up to the DM. Some are fine with min-maxing.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
But too an extant min maxing is a valid RP choice and by multi classing you are making a sacrifice also.
the ranger wants to become the greatest archer the world has ever seen and an avatar of death (edgy I know)
takes gloom stalker, archery and 14 levels of Ranger
takes arcane archer and 3 levels of fighter
takes assassin and 3 levels of rogue
its totally min maxing but it’s also a character path that fits a narrative
A narrative implies a story.
Why does your ranger "want to become the greatest archer the world has ever seen and an avatar of death?"
Is it because his family was killed by archers and he wants revenge (Batman style)? Or is it just because you, the player, want to min-max and you are making up a reason to give you an excuse to max out your DPS?
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Multiclassing is often done for both reasons. There can be a compelling and interesting narrative while at the same time the multiclass offers new versatility or options that synergize well with the base class. To the OP, I allow multiclassing in my games. I like the player/character to have a good reason for the multiclass beyond mechanical advantages just so the player can do a better job of understanding and roleplaying the character as more than a set of numbers on a page. However, it is important to keep in mind that almost any min/max type of decision can be justified on the basis of some interesting narrative as long as the player has a good imagination :)
As an example, I have a 2 hexblade/X lore bard (currently level 16) that has been great fun to play. There are back story reasons for both being a bard and have having some warlock abilities ... they made a mistake in a moment of weakness and don't want to get any deeper in. However, the two levels of hexblade, although well justified in terms of story reasons, also mechanically helps with some "weaknesses" of the lore bard though it also delays the rate of acquiring higher level spells.
It's entirely your call. If you're entirely new to DMing (which if you are, congrats!) then I would recommend restricting it until you have more experience under your belt as it is more work for you to deal with, but if you reach a point where you think you can handle it then it can open up possibilities for your players quite a bit.
In my game that I run, I allow it, and this may be a minority position but I'm perfectly fine with people min-maxing, taking dips, choosing whatever combinations they want, and helping facilitate any story reasons if it needs it; if a player of mine wants to dip into Fighter with the goal of taking the Arcane Archer, then that kinda does necessitate some story building towards it, but if they're planning on going into Champion, then "Hitting The Thing, But Better" does not require an explanation. Ultimately though, do what works best for you. If you decide it's too much work for you, then you are perfectly justified in saying that.
I see zero reason not to do this.
In my >40 years of life, I have:
1) Done admin work.
2) Work for a brokerage firm as a licensed stock broker
3) Done IT work for a law firm (lit support, not back office)
4) Began training as Real Estate Broker - just before the covid so now I got nothing.
Four different jobs. Very different skill sets. Not even counting my hobbies.
In real life, people learn different jobs. Why not in D&D?
Multiclassing is great, but it is OPTIONAL, and many player's won't use it. I play in, I am the only multiclassed character (fighter/barbarian). The 3 other players are "pure". Also, while multiclassing in my case gave me incredible boosts, this isn't always the case. If players try to abuse it, they are just as likely to end up as an Abserd as that paladin/sorcerer/warlock/rogue that literally replaces the rest of the party. As long as you are okay with having more unique characters at the expense of possible powergaming, go with multiclassing.
PS I made up the paladin/sorcerer/warlock/rogue for this post but Now that I think about it its pretty strong...
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In general I have found that it takes a LOT of work to make a Multi-Class powerful. It is often weak because:
Not saying it isn't possible, but OrtanFang, I would like to check out your Paladin/Sorc/War/Rogue build. It seems unlikely to work. Yeah, a Sorc/Pal or Sorc/War work well, but adding on Paladin and Rogue means giving up a lot. Sor/War works because you are trading spell slots to NOVA Eldritch Blast, and adding on two classes that are not full casters reduces their power. Sorc/Pal works because you are burning the spell slots to again NOVA, this time with Smite. Same problem again, not getting full caster reduces their power.
Love to see what you think makes it work.
Pros: More flexibility, interesting combination of features, can help keep a DM on their toes and be more responsive to character builds
Cons: More complicated for both players and the DM, players may feel disappointed if they have a wider range of abilities, but the DM can't plan to include or address them all
And/or: Others have mentioned "min/maxing". There's varied opinions about this. I like min/maxing with some limitations, like, you can only multi-class once, you can't multi-class with a newly built character (in other words, if you start a campaign at a higher level, the character will have to wait to level up before they can multi-class, this forces the player to deal with the consequences of lower level abilities before adding subclass features)
I like this kind of min maxing as a player and a DM. As a DM, I like to build adventures and encounters around my characters. I can create encounters that cause the players special challenges or that showcase some of their abilities. Multi-classing gives me more options to explore as my players simply have more features to work with. Usually, the players are committed to a kind of build when they multi-class too, and they get stoked when their grand plan works out. However, this kind of DMing takes a lot of work and is not for everyone. Players can get frustrated too when you plan an encounter that focuses on their weaknesses, rather than their strengths, and this can also happen by accident when a character is super specialized.
The downside to min/maxing as I see it is that either all the players need to do it, or none of them can. It's really hard to make an encounter work when you have one uber-maxed character and a bunch of average characters. The players of average characters can also get disappointed and frustrated if they feel like their characters are underperforming. Becuase of this, I think its less important whether you allow min/maxing in your campaign, than whether all of the players are on the same page.
I’m relatively new to being a DM, I’ve only been a DM for less than a year. But I permit it when there’s a story reason for it. If a player gives me a good story reason why their character is multiclassing then I say yes. I personally dislike multiclassing my characters when I’m playing, I use feats to “dip” into another class instead but that’s my personal preference.
What matters is everyone having fun.
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But, while u study brokerage you admin skills rust, so why so easy to float and keep all abilities? An mma fighter who goes and studied sorcery in the library should lose some of the beefy hp or other fighting prowess
I always allow multiclassing. the world shouldnt be so granular to say that there are just a fixed number of pathways that a character grows. Yes sometimes getting cross-trained gives a specific advantage, but if its a choice all people can have then it doesnt change the balance between players.
I'd echo Biowizard's sentiments.
New DMs or New players should have no access to multiclassing primarily because it's important they learn the basics of the game. Once you've got the fundamentals down then you can feel free to experiment. I'd actually apply that to all optional rules though. Don't indulge optionals or homebrews until you've mastered the basics.
One way I've done this in the past is to not allow multi-classing until level six. By that point the player has got their subclass abilities, and usually got used to the full range of features of their character's class. I also find that this prevents the min-maxers to a certain extent as by the time you hit level six you're actively aware of where the character's weaknesses are or what things they might like to explore. I've got one Rogue whose character was looking around at all his comrades and decided he wanted a piece of this magic stuff so multi-classed into Wizard and his character has been so fun as a result.
As always though everyone's milage varies.
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They did. Whatever sorcerer levels they took, they got d6 HP instead of d10. Those levels are also a separate path to their next ASI or feat. I’m not sure what more you think they should cost but, to get all real-worldy about it, there are plenty of well-educated athletes out there. It is very common for high level athletes to have completed university and to pursue careers related to their academics following their retirement from athletics.
I've met plenty of PhDs that can win a bar fight. Allowing for multiclassing has plenty of costs that don't particularly exist IRL.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad