I'm finishing a three ark game where the dungeon the players are entering is based on Chernobyl. One of the players is planning to use a magic spell to check for poison, will it detect radiation (non magical) and how should I handle it without giving too much away? Advice please.
The game doesn't precisely identify what 'poison' means (does it detect lead? What about alcohol?) so sounds like a DM call. If you decide it detects radiation, it's probably either an unknown type of poison, or aberrant.
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Yes, but you also get radiatio poisoning so I'm not sure. The radioactive elements are elements like graphite etc but it is also toxic a bit like a poison
Yes, but you also get radiatio poisoning so I'm not sure. The radioactive elements are elements like graphite etc but it is also toxic a bit like a poison.
The problem is that the term 'poisoning' is used rather imprecisely in both the real world and D&D, and even in D&D it's unlikely that the spell detects everything it would be harmful to ingest or inhale.
My thought is the spell picks it up. The unwritten but obvious intent of the spell is that it picks up things or environmental conditions that would result in sickness. It sounds like they’re using the right spell in response to the clues you gave them. That should come with some payoff. Now, you don’t have to ruin the entire arc of the sickening environment. You can say “As you finish your ritual, you expect to see an aura centered on some item, maybe a building, or the grass. But all around you for the 30ft the spell reveals, everything gives an aura of danger to human health. You walk forward and the aura stays with you. Everything seems to be a danger to the health of living creatures.”
They will probably ask for medicine checks, or arcana checks to get more information. You can set the DC impossibly high If you want to protect your plot. “This is unheard of. You can’t tell what this sickness you’re up against is. The best you can tell, these plants and materials are the same as you’d find anywhere else. Something must have happened to the environment here that makes everything that was here when it happened dangerous to be around.”
Now that assumes the party is investigating the oddities of a ruined hellscape, and you want them to discover the source. But maybe you sent the party there with the knowledge that some event happened, and the party was supposed to wonder why they were getting sick as they went through, putting it together that the event had much more catastrophic effects than anyone realized. In that case, I suggest that the radiation not be the extent of the effects. Maybe it’s altered the DNA of monsters, making them resistant to stuff, or dealing poison or necrotic damage in bites. And it’s given rise to another more serious environmental threat that the spell can’t pick up from here.
If you dig into a bit, radiation poisoning isn't really poisoning - there aren't chemical compounds in your system interfering with your biochemistry. It's more the cumulative effects as biological systems come apart after the damage due to ionizing radiation. See here.
That said, I'm not sure this is something you want to be hyper-realistic about, so maybe this is a rabbit hole worth going down. D&D is supposed to be a fun game - I can't see detailed and realistic radiation poison symptoms being fun :p
If it feels to you like it would be a Poison damage, then run with that - and in that case the spell would pick up something.
Personally, I'd just use radiant damage, and let the Players know "you take 3 points of Radiant damage". The fact that I'm telling them that the damage is radiant is a clue.
But it's your table, make the call which works best for you.
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This is what I've come up with for the players tests:
Fish: There is a slightly higher latent magical content in the fish, especially in the tributary you are following up to the ruins. It is noticeable but not especially dangerous. There is a significant level of general illness and increased abnormalities / damage to the fish and a high indication of a poison being present but not of the poison its self, its almost as if the damage caused by the ‘poison’ is being caused by physical attacks. If there is a poison present it is of a type which is unknown and unidentifiable. The fish are species you are familiar with but the abnormalities are not something you have seen before. Some of the fish are badly deformed while others are abnormally fat/ bloated, non appear to be mature specimens and all have an unpleasant Stannic / Galena’ic taste.
Foliage (tree leaves): There is no significant magical content in the trees though some exhibited high levels the majority are ‘normal’. The trees show some signs of illness and deformation but it is hard to determine why. There again is evidence of a damage causing thing being present but it cannot be identified. The trees show drought damage but their is not issue with water supply. The trees contain a higher then average mineral content.
Water: The water has no abnormal magical content. The water is unpleasant to drink and is bitter tasting in the tributary, it has a high concentration of toxic metals including some which are unknown to you, their is no trace of a ‘poison’ but the water does show as poisonous.
General: You use a magic and poison check spell on the general environment, a specific poison is unclear general malaise of toxicity is endemic throughout the area around you especially as you proceed up the tributary. The spells should highlight the magic / poison you are looking at but it is unclear what it is showing you, your whole vision is registering a toxicity with specific sparks of toxicity traveling through the air, the size of a pin prick but traveling like a comet with a tail, there is a significant general direction of flow from one particular source to the north but their is a general matrix of these pin pricks.
Monster fluid: You analyse the fluid you picked up from the Ostlers Rest. It shows no magical content but is highly toxic, with significant levels of heavy metals, sulphurs, ferrous oxides and other toxic elements. It appears to be a non flammable mineral based oil which is very viscose and heavier then water.
any thoughts would be welcome?
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I'm finishing a three ark game where the dungeon the players are entering is based on Chernobyl. One of the players is planning to use a magic spell to check for poison, will it detect radiation (non magical) and how should I handle it without giving too much away? Advice please.
The game doesn't precisely identify what 'poison' means (does it detect lead? What about alcohol?) so sounds like a DM call. If you decide it detects radiation, it's probably either an unknown type of poison, or aberrant.
Since D&D really doesn't have radiation exposure rules, this is really up to the DM's interpretation.
However, as I see it, isn't radiation radiant damage?
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Yes, but you also get radiatio poisoning so I'm not sure. The radioactive elements are elements like graphite etc but it is also toxic a bit like a poison
The problem is that the term 'poisoning' is used rather imprecisely in both the real world and D&D, and even in D&D it's unlikely that the spell detects everything it would be harmful to ingest or inhale.
My thought is the spell picks it up. The unwritten but obvious intent of the spell is that it picks up things or environmental conditions that would result in sickness. It sounds like they’re using the right spell in response to the clues you gave them. That should come with some payoff. Now, you don’t have to ruin the entire arc of the sickening environment. You can say “As you finish your ritual, you expect to see an aura centered on some item, maybe a building, or the grass. But all around you for the 30ft the spell reveals, everything gives an aura of danger to human health. You walk forward and the aura stays with you. Everything seems to be a danger to the health of living creatures.”
They will probably ask for medicine checks, or arcana checks to get more information. You can set the DC impossibly high If you want to protect your plot. “This is unheard of. You can’t tell what this sickness you’re up against is. The best you can tell, these plants and materials are the same as you’d find anywhere else. Something must have happened to the environment here that makes everything that was here when it happened dangerous to be around.”
Now that assumes the party is investigating the oddities of a ruined hellscape, and you want them to discover the source. But maybe you sent the party there with the knowledge that some event happened, and the party was supposed to wonder why they were getting sick as they went through, putting it together that the event had much more catastrophic effects than anyone realized. In that case, I suggest that the radiation not be the extent of the effects. Maybe it’s altered the DNA of monsters, making them resistant to stuff, or dealing poison or necrotic damage in bites. And it’s given rise to another more serious environmental threat that the spell can’t pick up from here.
If you dig into a bit, radiation poisoning isn't really poisoning - there aren't chemical compounds in your system interfering with your biochemistry. It's more the cumulative effects as biological systems come apart after the damage due to ionizing radiation. See here.
That said, I'm not sure this is something you want to be hyper-realistic about, so maybe this is a rabbit hole worth going down. D&D is supposed to be a fun game - I can't see detailed and realistic radiation poison symptoms being fun :p
If it feels to you like it would be a Poison damage, then run with that - and in that case the spell would pick up something.
Personally, I'd just use radiant damage, and let the Players know "you take 3 points of Radiant damage". The fact that I'm telling them that the damage is radiant is a clue.
But it's your table, make the call which works best for you.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I think I'll go with kcbcollier, it would pick up somthing but not specificly what as its alient to the world now. Thanks all. :)
This is what I've come up with for the players tests:
Fish: There is a slightly higher latent magical content in the fish, especially in the
tributary you are following up to the ruins. It is noticeable but not especially dangerous.
There is a significant level of general illness and increased abnormalities / damage to the fish
and a high indication of a poison being present but not of the poison its self, its almost as if
the damage caused by the ‘poison’ is being caused by physical attacks. If there is a poison
present it is of a type which is unknown and unidentifiable. The fish are species you are
familiar with but the abnormalities are not something you have seen before. Some of the
fish are badly deformed while others are abnormally fat/ bloated, non appear to be mature
specimens and all have an unpleasant Stannic / Galena’ic taste.
Foliage (tree leaves): There is no significant magical content in the trees though some
exhibited high levels the majority are ‘normal’. The trees show some signs of illness and
deformation but it is hard to determine why. There again is evidence of a damage causing
thing being present but it cannot be identified. The trees show drought damage but their is
not issue with water supply. The trees contain a higher then average mineral content.
Water: The water has no abnormal magical content. The water is unpleasant to drink and is
bitter tasting in the tributary, it has a high concentration of toxic metals including some
which are unknown to you, their is no trace of a ‘poison’ but the water does show as
poisonous.
General: You use a magic and poison check spell on the general environment, a specific
poison is unclear general malaise of toxicity is endemic throughout the area around you
especially as you proceed up the tributary. The spells should highlight the magic / poison
you are looking at but it is unclear what it is showing you, your whole vision is registering a
toxicity with specific sparks of toxicity traveling through the air, the size of a pin prick but
traveling like a comet with a tail, there is a significant general direction of flow from one
particular source to the north but their is a general matrix of these pin pricks.
Monster fluid: You analyse the fluid you picked up from the Ostlers Rest. It shows no
magical content but is highly toxic, with significant levels of heavy metals, sulphurs, ferrous
oxides and other toxic elements. It appears to be a non flammable mineral based oil which is
very viscose and heavier then water.
any thoughts would be welcome?