So my players ended up in The Hells at level 3. Yeah I know people would ask why I ever put them in the situation, but I am not worried about them dying.
My issue is that they have no way to get out. They are just on a random layer in the "wilderness" of the layer. One of my players has a candle of invocation, and has used it once. So he can't use the gate spell anymore. However, he has stated that his goddess gives him visions. So I figured I could feed into that and have her show him of a placed where he could go fix it. I wouldn't have her hold his hand, but just show him this old ruined tower and give him a direction.
Then when they got there, it would just be a dungeon crawl with lemures and some imps. Where at the end they'd find a candle making room with the materials needed to enchant the candle. But I don't want it to feel like I handed it to them.
Outside of that, all I can think of is some demons showing up, taking them prisoner, and having one of the devils make a deal in exchange for sending them back to the material realm. I just feel this has been over done.
If you don't want it to feel like a Dues Ex Machina, then what you need to do it present both choices i game and let the PCs decide if they follow the vision or do they get grabbed up by Devils. It be easy to throw a 1 or 2 devil fight at them and say "Look more slaves for the mines" or something but be easily fought off. This presents a clear "danger" to being out in the wild that they may get captured. Then present the visions to the player, be as cryptic as you want, and let them decide how to deal with the situation. You didn't hand them a solution, you handed them possible solutions but the PCs can still "F* it up" by going with option 3. :D
Also you can also make the reward at the end of the dungeon not a candle making room but simply a way out. Like a globe that when touched transports you to a random place on the Material Plane. That makes it feel less tailored for the party but still gives them the reward you want. Or even just rescuing a druid whose been jailed there and planeshift them out.
I was thinking the goddess showing him the vision could lead to them being tracked, which is also revealed to them. Basically he is shown a ruined tower, then shown a group of devils tracking something, then shown their group. Let them interpret it as well as adding a sense of urgency. I was also thinking that when he fixed the candle it would take a dice roll with a DC, and failure would just destroy it and shortly after which the before mentioned devils showed up to enslave them.
I like the idea of the druid though, since the cleric picked a nature themed goddess and heavily built his character around that. It could perhaps be another acolyte who helps them escape for saving them from a sacrifice.
I was thinking the goddess showing him the vision could lead to them being tracked, which is also revealed to them. Basically he is shown a ruined tower, then shown a group of devils tracking something, then shown their group. Let them interpret it as well as adding a sense of urgency. I was also thinking that when he fixed the candle it would take a dice roll with a DC, and failure would just destroy it and shortly after which the before mentioned devils showed up to enslave them.
I like the idea of the druid though, since the cleric picked a nature themed goddess and heavily built his character around that. It could perhaps be another acolyte who helps them escape for saving them from a sacrifice.
That's a perfectly fine way to run it. I was just trying to make the "Solutions" less PC specific since you felt that you were handing them a Dues Ex. So that's always a way to do it, just make the "way out" not something specifically tailored to a PC and then they might not pick up on that this was DM fiat sort of adventure.
If the goddess is nature based she would gladly say to one of her followers "Hey noticed your in the Hells, yeah so I have a follower actually that got captured? Do you think you could go free them? Thanks!" - Obviously not in the "Valley Girl" cadence if that doesn't fit the Goddess :P
I think I would rather go with a druid or item there. I think the idea of the fixing the candle is a little... To much if that makes sense. The sad part is, he used the candle RIGHT before they decided to jump through the clearly marked portal lol. Had he waited, they would of had an instant out.
It's not at all. If you had the Goddess show up and wisk them away to safety, then yeah it would. But what you are doing is using an aspect of a characters back story to point them in a direction to solve their own problems. Very solid DM moves my friend.
You are a Dues Ex Dm Screen, everything that happens is because you make it so or allow it :p
In the negative realms the good aligned deities have limited influence. A goddess sending a vision is about as much as can be done. She can't influence in a more direct way anyhow. So no need to worry about heavy handed solutions in that regard. In hell there are all sorts of creatures that do all sorts of deals and manipulation games against many factions. Leading to quite a deep "political" game. Eventually leading to deals with a myriad of solutions for the PC's too use. It can be an item, a deal with repercussions, finding the river styxx and the ferryman and needing to make a deal with him etc.
Simply read up on the layer of hell the players are. Do some research about how that realm works. The key NPC's and the situation over there. You'll find a solution easily enough. There is nothing wrong using the tried and true "cliche's". The execution is more important instead of being creative and unique while ******* it up.
Sorry for just jumping here to correct this, the term is: Deus Ex Machina. (Deus, not Dues)
Thank you for this, it was driving me a bit crazy haha!
It comes from the latin term for a greek theater plot device, meaning “God from the Machine” (Deus being the latin word for god), wherein actors portraying a god would be literally brought into the scene using a “machine” (a crane!) to resolve a situation.
I suggest that when you have them leave hell, do not simply end it "You are home, safe and sound". You could send them to another plane, one a bit less hellish.
Or you could have a gate open up and they all step through it to instantly be commanded by a 5th level Warlock, who says "Demons, kill all the soldiers in blue uniforms. Wait, you are not Demons?!?! What did you do to my demons!?!"
Sorry for just jumping here to correct this, the term is: Deus Ex Machina. (Deus, not Dues)
Thank you for this, it was driving me a bit crazy haha!
It comes from the latin term for a greek theater plot device, meaning “God from the Machine” (Deus being the latin word for god), wherein actors portraying a god would be literally brought into the scene using a “machine” (a crane!) to resolve a situation.
A Dues ex Machina to my mind would be basically an automated billing system, which is something one could find in the Infernal planes, be the charges coin or aspects of soul. I think I'm going to run with that. Mocking the gods through wordplay and crushing a mortal with debt sounds dual diabolical.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Sorry for just jumping here to correct this, the term is: Deus Ex Machina. (Deus, not Dues)
Thank you for this, it was driving me a bit crazy haha!
It comes from the latin term for a greek theater plot device, meaning “God from the Machine” (Deus being the latin word for god), wherein actors portraying a god would be literally brought into the scene using a “machine” (a crane!) to resolve a situation.
A Dues ex Machina to my mind would be basically an automated billing system, which is something one could find in the Infernal planes, be the charges coin or aspects of soul. I think I'm going to run with that. Mocking the gods through wordplay and crushing a mortal with debt sounds dual diabolical.
Thank you, I am totally adding that to my Descent into Avernus game hahaha!
So my players ended up in The Hells at level 3. Yeah I know people would ask why I ever put them in the situation, but I am not worried about them dying.
My issue is that they have no way to get out. They are just on a random layer in the "wilderness" of the layer. One of my players has a candle of invocation, and has used it once. So he can't use the gate spell anymore. However, he has stated that his goddess gives him visions. So I figured I could feed into that and have her show him of a placed where he could go fix it. I wouldn't have her hold his hand, but just show him this old ruined tower and give him a direction.
Then when they got there, it would just be a dungeon crawl with lemures and some imps. Where at the end they'd find a candle making room with the materials needed to enchant the candle. But I don't want it to feel like I handed it to them.
Outside of that, all I can think of is some demons showing up, taking them prisoner, and having one of the devils make a deal in exchange for sending them back to the material realm. I just feel this has been over done.
If you don't want it to feel like a Dues Ex Machina, then what you need to do it present both choices i game and let the PCs decide if they follow the vision or do they get grabbed up by Devils. It be easy to throw a 1 or 2 devil fight at them and say "Look more slaves for the mines" or something but be easily fought off. This presents a clear "danger" to being out in the wild that they may get captured. Then present the visions to the player, be as cryptic as you want, and let them decide how to deal with the situation. You didn't hand them a solution, you handed them possible solutions but the PCs can still "F* it up" by going with option 3. :D
Also you can also make the reward at the end of the dungeon not a candle making room but simply a way out. Like a globe that when touched transports you to a random place on the Material Plane. That makes it feel less tailored for the party but still gives them the reward you want. Or even just rescuing a druid whose been jailed there and planeshift them out.
I was thinking the goddess showing him the vision could lead to them being tracked, which is also revealed to them. Basically he is shown a ruined tower, then shown a group of devils tracking something, then shown their group. Let them interpret it as well as adding a sense of urgency. I was also thinking that when he fixed the candle it would take a dice roll with a DC, and failure would just destroy it and shortly after which the before mentioned devils showed up to enslave them.
I like the idea of the druid though, since the cleric picked a nature themed goddess and heavily built his character around that. It could perhaps be another acolyte who helps them escape for saving them from a sacrifice.
That's a perfectly fine way to run it. I was just trying to make the "Solutions" less PC specific since you felt that you were handing them a Dues Ex. So that's always a way to do it, just make the "way out" not something specifically tailored to a PC and then they might not pick up on that this was DM fiat sort of adventure.
If the goddess is nature based she would gladly say to one of her followers "Hey noticed your in the Hells, yeah so I have a follower actually that got captured? Do you think you could go free them? Thanks!" - Obviously not in the "Valley Girl" cadence if that doesn't fit the Goddess :P
No they were some great ideas :) I appreciate it.
I think I would rather go with a druid or item there. I think the idea of the fixing the candle is a little... To much if that makes sense. The sad part is, he used the candle RIGHT before they decided to jump through the clearly marked portal lol. Had he waited, they would of had an instant out.
Yep, sounds about right for an adventuring party. They always find ways to make Options 1,2, or 3 turn into they took option 25. XD
It's not at all. If you had the Goddess show up and wisk them away to safety, then yeah it would. But what you are doing is using an aspect of a characters back story to point them in a direction to solve their own problems. Very solid DM moves my friend.
You are a Dues Ex Dm Screen, everything that happens is because you make it so or allow it :p
Sorry for just jumping here to correct this, the term is: Deus Ex Machina. (Deus, not Dues)
In the negative realms the good aligned deities have limited influence. A goddess sending a vision is about as much as can be done. She can't influence in a more direct way anyhow. So no need to worry about heavy handed solutions in that regard. In hell there are all sorts of creatures that do all sorts of deals and manipulation games against many factions. Leading to quite a deep "political" game. Eventually leading to deals with a myriad of solutions for the PC's too use. It can be an item, a deal with repercussions, finding the river styxx and the ferryman and needing to make a deal with him etc.
Simply read up on the layer of hell the players are. Do some research about how that realm works. The key NPC's and the situation over there. You'll find a solution easily enough. There is nothing wrong using the tried and true "cliche's". The execution is more important instead of being creative and unique while ******* it up.
Thank you for this, it was driving me a bit crazy haha!
It comes from the latin term for a greek theater plot device, meaning “God from the Machine” (Deus being the latin word for god), wherein actors portraying a god would be literally brought into the scene using a “machine” (a crane!) to resolve a situation.
I suggest that when you have them leave hell, do not simply end it "You are home, safe and sound". You could send them to another plane, one a bit less hellish.
Or you could have a gate open up and they all step through it to instantly be commanded by a 5th level Warlock, who says "Demons, kill all the soldiers in blue uniforms. Wait, you are not Demons?!?! What did you do to my demons!?!"
A Dues ex Machina to my mind would be basically an automated billing system, which is something one could find in the Infernal planes, be the charges coin or aspects of soul. I think I'm going to run with that. Mocking the gods through wordplay and crushing a mortal with debt sounds dual diabolical.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Thank you, I am totally adding that to my Descent into Avernus game hahaha!