I'm a relatively new DM. My party played through Lost Mines of Phandelver and everything went textbook smoothly so I decided to have them play through Tyranny of Dragons. Well, they hit episode three and found the dragon eggs, which they are supposed to destroy or just ignore, and they suddenly decided that the saddest thing ever is that these eggs have been separated from their mother. They managed to figure out who the mother dragon was and carry the eggs all the way to her swamp. So, in my next session my team of three level 5 players are coming face to face with an adult black dragon. I want to give them an opportunity to survive, but if they engage the dragon in combat I will not hold back. So, that raises two questions.
HOW in the world do I have this dragon react in a way that is consistent with black dragons but also gives the players an opportunity to survive? I'm thinking about having the dragon try to make them her servants and send them on a mission that sends them back into civilization where I can sort of nudge them and remind them that there is a cult trying to take over the world but I'm not sure what adventurer's could do that would be beneficial to a dragon.
Also, in the event they engage this dragon in combat, how do you handle total party wipes? I don't really want this to be the end of the campaign.
Have you asked what their plan is? What leverage do they have once they return all the eggs? Warn them that although they are trying to do good, this is going to be a bit like a hostage negotiation.
Easy out: if they are returning eggs to mama, it sounds like they aren't inclined to fight. Even if the dragon would normally fight the party, the mama bear instinct might bypass that.
You could offer an escape route. You could strongly hint as the dragon carefully tucks away its eggs that it's then going to come after the party. (Tone of voice, muttering to itself, "You're back, and we'll have food for you soon," licking chops..., and failing that, a simple DM, "Are you sure you want to hang out here?") The dragon comes after them, they run, and as they briefly pass out of view of the dragon behind swampy plants, a swamp denizen hurriedly beckons them into a gnarled tree of a hut to hide. That could lead to adventure, too.
Or sure, captured and sent on a mission. All manner of magic items can bind PCs to a task. (Betray me and this bracelet locked on you explodes, etc) But then they are in a bit of a loop, unless they can figure out how to bypass it.
I'm thinking about having the dragon try to make them her servants and send them on a mission that sends them back into civilization where I can sort of nudge them and remind them that there is a cult trying to take over the world but I'm not sure what adventurer's could do that would be beneficial to a dragon.
Dragons have hoards. Dragons like hoards. Dragons are almost always looking for ways to expand their hoards. I think the simplest thing if you want to go this route, is to have the dragon send them after a magic item. This opens up all kinds of possibilities and is easy to link to other adventures or encounters you may have planned. Plus, you don't have to have them find the item. Perhaps it was lost or destroyed long ago. Perhaps it is even being held by an NPC who will only release it if they first [preform the next mission / task that you need to advance your plot.]
Personally, I love the fact that your players are trying to help the eggs. What a rare decision. I hope they gain from it in the end -- after suitable hardships, of course.
Not all dragons are evil. Your players bringing her the eggs could give them favor for her. But no dragon is going to leave her nest. So that makes no sense. Why would a dragon leave her babies behind? She wouldn't unless she was cut off from them by an opposing force.
Personally, I love the fact that your players are trying to help the eggs. What a rare decision. I hope they gain from it in the end -- after suitable hardships, of course.
Not all dragons are evil. Your players bringing her the eggs could give them favor for her. But no dragon is going to leave her nest. So that makes no sense. Why would a dragon leave her babies behind? She wouldn't unless she was cut off from them by an opposing force.
Chromatic Dragons almost always are, and Black Dragons tend to be more sadistic than most as a rule (at least per the MM). a "mercy" to the mama dragon may be a quick death rather than a drawn out affair being burned alive with acid...
Not all dragons are evil. Your players bringing her the eggs could give them favor for her. But no dragon is going to leave her nest. So that makes no sense. Why would a dragon leave her babies behind? She wouldn't unless she was cut off from them by an opposing force.
Chromatic Dragons almost always are, and Black Dragons tend to be more sadistic than most as a rule (at least per the MM). a "mercy" to the mama dragon may be a quick death rather than a drawn out affair being burned alive with acid...
Depends on the gm. In my campaign an ancient black dragon was spared her by my players, near death. They brought her to their home, let her rest, and sent a message to an ancient gold dragon. The gold dragon teleported to them. They were both in human form.
The gold dragon immediately ignored the players.. Took out a dagger.. the players moved out of the way. They saw a fight about to happen. Then the guild dragon cut her hand and healed the black dragon. Her sister. Who was being controlled most of her life.
So yes. In the monster manual it can say that a black dragon is evil. In my world.. nothing is what it seams.
This is partly why I went out of my way in my campaign to make it clear that the Black Dragon eggs are a serious problem that will be bad for everything. It's not in the module, but I added the detail that the eggs were corrupted by Tiamat's magic, making them even more unnatural and deadly than a normal black dragon.
That said, I think this is going to have to be a stealth quest more than anything. I'd give the party the opportunity to observe the black dragon and see that it follows some kind of schedule... maybe it has a hunting pattern it uses regularly and their priority could be to place the eggs somewhere they know the Black Dragon will go. I do like the idea of subverting the idea that Black Dragons are just irredeemably evil, so if they do get caught maybe it will appreciate them returning the eggs. Maybe a conversation with the black dragon can be used to remind them about the cult, since presumably the cult was the ones who stole the eggs in the first place. I'd imagine the dragon still wouldn't be, y'know... nice to them. But returning the eggs is probably enough to keep it from just devouring them outright.
I think I'd have the black dragon thank them for returning the eggs, then, as a "reward," give them an hour's head start before she comes after them to torture, kill, and eat them. It would be in line with the dragon's evil and sadism while not killing the party and acknowledging that they did help the dragon out. It's essentially a free out for them, but reinforces the fact that these villains are irredeemably bad and can't be befriended with Disney thinking, so it sticks to the premise of the module.
I don't see a reason for this encounter to end up with combat. The players don't seem to be inclined to try and stab the dragon and take it's hoard. The dragon is probably appreciative of random adventurers doing it favors (like bringing back its eggs!)
Just because it's evil doesn't mean it's chaotic stupid evil and just attacks whatever it sees, Dragons are more intelligent than your average person! It sees that these adventurers have literally become its minions without it even forcing them. Why would it bother attacking them instead of giving them quests to bring it treasure? "Thank you for your service, if you go and bring me back [some treasure that the Dragon wants] then I will reward you handsomely". I'm sure the dragon prefers "having minions" to "having a quick snack".
Just from a purely self-interested point of view, I think a dragon would like having an adventuring band at its command, doing treasure-fetch quests for it or whatever. It is more than capable of judging
1) "what's the most valuable treasure that I think these suckers can obtain and would bring to me," and
2) "what's the least valuable treasure I could give them so they keep bringing me stuff."
As long as (1) is bigger than (2), the dragon would probably appear to be trustworthy - until it judges that giving them another quest is not in its interest, at which point it would renege on its end of the bargain and try to kill them.
Right now, the cost is literally zero, the Dragon doesn't have to give them anything. So if there's *any* treasure the dragon thinks these adventurers could retrieve for it, it would give them that quest, and promise a reward. Then if the adventurers return again, then it would redo that judgement - is giving the promised reward and sending them out on another fetch quest more likely to be profitable than taking their treasure and killing them instead of giving the reward?
And of course, as a DM, you can "conveniently" have the treasure that the dragon wants them to retrieve also push them along the main plot, whatever it is. Say the cult you want them to investigate has some ancient dragon treasure (that's hidden away, and the dragon doesn't know where it is, which is why it needs puny adventurer minions to investigate) or something.
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I'm a relatively new DM. My party played through Lost Mines of Phandelver and everything went textbook smoothly so I decided to have them play through Tyranny of Dragons. Well, they hit episode three and found the dragon eggs, which they are supposed to destroy or just ignore, and they suddenly decided that the saddest thing ever is that these eggs have been separated from their mother. They managed to figure out who the mother dragon was and carry the eggs all the way to her swamp. So, in my next session my team of three level 5 players are coming face to face with an adult black dragon. I want to give them an opportunity to survive, but if they engage the dragon in combat I will not hold back. So, that raises two questions.
HOW in the world do I have this dragon react in a way that is consistent with black dragons but also gives the players an opportunity to survive? I'm thinking about having the dragon try to make them her servants and send them on a mission that sends them back into civilization where I can sort of nudge them and remind them that there is a cult trying to take over the world but I'm not sure what adventurer's could do that would be beneficial to a dragon.
Also, in the event they engage this dragon in combat, how do you handle total party wipes? I don't really want this to be the end of the campaign.
Have you asked what their plan is? What leverage do they have once they return all the eggs? Warn them that although they are trying to do good, this is going to be a bit like a hostage negotiation.
Easy out: if they are returning eggs to mama, it sounds like they aren't inclined to fight. Even if the dragon would normally fight the party, the mama bear instinct might bypass that.
You could offer an escape route. You could strongly hint as the dragon carefully tucks away its eggs that it's then going to come after the party. (Tone of voice, muttering to itself, "You're back, and we'll have food for you soon," licking chops..., and failing that, a simple DM, "Are you sure you want to hang out here?") The dragon comes after them, they run, and as they briefly pass out of view of the dragon behind swampy plants, a swamp denizen hurriedly beckons them into a gnarled tree of a hut to hide. That could lead to adventure, too.
Or sure, captured and sent on a mission. All manner of magic items can bind PCs to a task. (Betray me and this bracelet locked on you explodes, etc) But then they are in a bit of a loop, unless they can figure out how to bypass it.
You've totally got options!
Dragons have hoards. Dragons like hoards. Dragons are almost always looking for ways to expand their hoards. I think the simplest thing if you want to go this route, is to have the dragon send them after a magic item. This opens up all kinds of possibilities and is easy to link to other adventures or encounters you may have planned. Plus, you don't have to have them find the item. Perhaps it was lost or destroyed long ago. Perhaps it is even being held by an NPC who will only release it if they first [preform the next mission / task that you need to advance your plot.]
Personally, I love the fact that your players are trying to help the eggs. What a rare decision. I hope they gain from it in the end -- after suitable hardships, of course.
Not all dragons are evil. Your players bringing her the eggs could give them favor for her. But no dragon is going to leave her nest. So that makes no sense. Why would a dragon leave her babies behind? She wouldn't unless she was cut off from them by an opposing force.
So true!
Chromatic Dragons almost always are, and Black Dragons tend to be more sadistic than most as a rule (at least per the MM). a "mercy" to the mama dragon may be a quick death rather than a drawn out affair being burned alive with acid...
Depends on the gm. In my campaign an ancient black dragon was spared her by my players, near death. They brought her to their home, let her rest, and sent a message to an ancient gold dragon. The gold dragon teleported to them. They were both in human form.
The gold dragon immediately ignored the players.. Took out a dagger.. the players moved out of the way. They saw a fight about to happen. Then the guild dragon cut her hand and healed the black dragon. Her sister. Who was being controlled most of her life.
So yes. In the monster manual it can say that a black dragon is evil. In my world.. nothing is what it seams.
This is partly why I went out of my way in my campaign to make it clear that the Black Dragon eggs are a serious problem that will be bad for everything. It's not in the module, but I added the detail that the eggs were corrupted by Tiamat's magic, making them even more unnatural and deadly than a normal black dragon.
That said, I think this is going to have to be a stealth quest more than anything. I'd give the party the opportunity to observe the black dragon and see that it follows some kind of schedule... maybe it has a hunting pattern it uses regularly and their priority could be to place the eggs somewhere they know the Black Dragon will go. I do like the idea of subverting the idea that Black Dragons are just irredeemably evil, so if they do get caught maybe it will appreciate them returning the eggs. Maybe a conversation with the black dragon can be used to remind them about the cult, since presumably the cult was the ones who stole the eggs in the first place. I'd imagine the dragon still wouldn't be, y'know... nice to them. But returning the eggs is probably enough to keep it from just devouring them outright.
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I think I'd have the black dragon thank them for returning the eggs, then, as a "reward," give them an hour's head start before she comes after them to torture, kill, and eat them. It would be in line with the dragon's evil and sadism while not killing the party and acknowledging that they did help the dragon out. It's essentially a free out for them, but reinforces the fact that these villains are irredeemably bad and can't be befriended with Disney thinking, so it sticks to the premise of the module.
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I don't see a reason for this encounter to end up with combat. The players don't seem to be inclined to try and stab the dragon and take it's hoard. The dragon is probably appreciative of random adventurers doing it favors (like bringing back its eggs!)
Just because it's evil doesn't mean it's chaotic stupid evil and just attacks whatever it sees, Dragons are more intelligent than your average person! It sees that these adventurers have literally become its minions without it even forcing them. Why would it bother attacking them instead of giving them quests to bring it treasure? "Thank you for your service, if you go and bring me back [some treasure that the Dragon wants] then I will reward you handsomely". I'm sure the dragon prefers "having minions" to "having a quick snack".
Just from a purely self-interested point of view, I think a dragon would like having an adventuring band at its command, doing treasure-fetch quests for it or whatever. It is more than capable of judging
1) "what's the most valuable treasure that I think these suckers can obtain and would bring to me," and
2) "what's the least valuable treasure I could give them so they keep bringing me stuff."
As long as (1) is bigger than (2), the dragon would probably appear to be trustworthy - until it judges that giving them another quest is not in its interest, at which point it would renege on its end of the bargain and try to kill them.
Right now, the cost is literally zero, the Dragon doesn't have to give them anything. So if there's *any* treasure the dragon thinks these adventurers could retrieve for it, it would give them that quest, and promise a reward. Then if the adventurers return again, then it would redo that judgement - is giving the promised reward and sending them out on another fetch quest more likely to be profitable than taking their treasure and killing them instead of giving the reward?
And of course, as a DM, you can "conveniently" have the treasure that the dragon wants them to retrieve also push them along the main plot, whatever it is. Say the cult you want them to investigate has some ancient dragon treasure (that's hidden away, and the dragon doesn't know where it is, which is why it needs puny adventurer minions to investigate) or something.