Hi. The book mentions that the demiplane of Borovia was formed by Strahds mind. Does it mean that it is just his dream and he is the author of it (like in Inception)? Does it mean that people trapped in Borovia are just projections of real people and that no-one in this plane is real? It’s just a matrix?
this idea ruins the entire feeling of this game for me. Please prove that I am wrong.
it's more that he willed it into existence i think, the people have their free will and are real, but the original version of the demiplane was willed into existence by him, that's what i think at least
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NNCHRIS: SOUL THIEF, MASTER OF THE ARCANE, AND KING OF NEW YORKNN Gdl Creator of Ilheia and her Knights of the Fallen Stars ldG Lesser Student of Technomancy [undergrad student in computer science] Supporter of the 2014 rules, and a MASSIVE Homebrewer. Come to me all ye who seek salvation in wording thy brews! Open to homebrew trades at any time!! Or feel free to request HB, and Ill see if I can get it done for ya! Characters (Outdated)
I think you might be reading too much into one sentence. The Amber Temple, the standing stones, Argynvostholst, all these things predate Strahd and exist separately from him. If there were no real people in Barovia, the vampires would starve.
I think it's metaphorically correct that the entire demiplane is Strahd's self-portrait, but that's not an Inception thing, that's centuries of absolute control over who stays and who goes and centuries of mental, emotional, and physical abuse heaped on the population.
Barovia is created by Strahd's mind. It is his curse. He doesn't necessarily have much conscious control over it (though that is up to the DM).
From the section on Berez
"Strahd slew the priest and the burgomaster, then used his power over the land to swell the river, flooding the village and forcing the residents to flee."
Strahd can clearly affect the geography. He also controls the mists that surround Barovia.
Only about 1 in 10 Barovians have souls. See the "Souls and Shells" on p25
"Barovians without souls are empty shells created by his consciousness to fill out the local population."
However, Barovia is also Strahd's prison. He wants to leave if he could. Strahd made a bargain for endless life and the dark powers derive sustenance or pleasure from his suffering and evil actions.
"Strahd believes that the key to his escaping Barovia lies in finding someone worthy to rule in his stead"
So in some sense, the entirety of Barovia (with the exception of the creatures who actually have souls) is a product of Strahd's mind.
I always thought that Borovia is a real land that dark forces physically took it from material plane an placed into the Shadowfell. Strahd has full control over its nature now and even population. But now I see it as a representation of his memory. Borovia (the demiplane) is one place and Borovia is another. Like now even Amber Temple is just a fantasy
it kind of drives me mad because now all its “ancient dying world” is just an illusion
I always thought that Borovia is a real land that dark forces physically took it from material plane an placed into the Shadowfell. Strahd has full control over its nature now and even population. But now I see it as a representation of his memory. Borovia (the demiplane) is one place and Borovia is another. Like now even Amber Temple is just a fantasy
it kind of drives me mad because now all its “ancient dying world” is just an illusion
In the context of the game, the demiplane is real. The dark powers in the amber temple are real and presumably are now in the demiplane rather than where they were in the original Amber Temple. However, the dark powers derive sustenance from Strahd and his evil so they created the prison to confine Strahd.
However there are likely inconsistencies possible :)
"In time, cursed Barovia was torn from its home world by the Dark Powers and bound in mist as one of the Domains of Dread in the Shadowfell." from the intro
The demiplane of Barovia was created by the Dark Powers and indicates that the land was pulled from its original location into the demiplane. Strahd made a deal with the Dark Powers for immortality and would like an escape from his centuries of confinement to Barovia since it doesn't provide much of interest or much sustenance since only the real souls have any significance and Strahd can tell those with souls and those without just by looking.
"Unwilling to go the way of his father, Strahd studied magic and forged a pact with the Dark Powers of the Shadowfell in return for the promise of immortality."
"Strahd murdered Sergei and drank his blood, sealing the evil pact between Strahd and the Dark Powers."
"He believes in his cold heart that only a von Zarovich as great as he or his father could sway the Dark Powers to release him."
However, the dark powers obviously exercise some fundamental control over the form of Barovia ... it isn't just Strahd's imagination.
"By the will of the Dark Powers, the sun never fully shines in the lands of Barovia."
"When Strahd later murdered his brother Sergei, that pact was sealed with blood. Strahd transformed into a vampire, and the Dark Powers turned his land into a prison."
"He knows only that the Dark Powers that created Strahd's domain were born in the temple, and that these entities feed on the evil that Strahd represents. Strahd is the darkness that sustains them."
"Some students of the arcane contend that the Dark Powers took a bit of that fog and twisted it to create the mists of Barovia, and that perhaps Strahd's domain is just a dark memory in the Whispering Wall."
The last suggests that the Dark Powers created the demiplane based on Strahd's memory while the intro suggests the land was moved to the demiplane. In either case, Strahd has some control over the shape of the land and the population is in part a product of his mind or his imagination likely guided or put in place by the Dark Powers. The land is theirs and Strahd is theirs. The land is his prison.
In addition, the land is not an illusion. You can't disbelieve it. When you open your eyes it is still there. The form may be defined based on Strahd's mind/memories but it is very much real to Strahd, to the inhabitants and to the adventurers.
P.S. The only reason I know all this is that I am currently running it :) ... Characters are now level 8 so have been through most of the content except the Amber Temple and Castle Ravenloft.
Barovia is a real place in the demi plane of dread, which is surrounded by mist. Anyone who is powerful and evil enough will basically create their own domain if they walk into the mists surrounding the lands. Once this happens they are trapped there to rule as they see fit. Strahd is only one of the dark lords that inhabit Ravenloft. Lord Soth is a death knight, Harkon Lucas is a werewolf and Ankhtepot is a greater mummy. You can see the theme I'm sure. :)
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Hi. The book mentions that the demiplane of Borovia was formed by Strahds mind. Does it mean that it is just his dream and he is the author of it (like in Inception)? Does it mean that people trapped in Borovia are just projections of real people and that no-one in this plane is real? It’s just a matrix?
this idea ruins the entire feeling of this game for me. Please prove that I am wrong.
it's more that he willed it into existence i think, the people have their free will and are real, but the original version of the demiplane was willed into existence by him, that's what i think at least
NNCHRIS: SOUL THIEF, MASTER OF THE ARCANE, AND KING OF NEW YORKNN
Gdl Creator of Ilheia and her Knights of the Fallen Stars ldG
Lesser Student of Technomancy [undergrad student in computer science]
Supporter of the 2014 rules, and a MASSIVE Homebrewer. Come to me all ye who seek salvation in wording thy brews!
Open to homebrew trades at any time!! Or feel free to request HB, and Ill see if I can get it done for ya!
Characters (Outdated)
I think you might be reading too much into one sentence. The Amber Temple, the standing stones, Argynvostholst, all these things predate Strahd and exist separately from him. If there were no real people in Barovia, the vampires would starve.
I think it's metaphorically correct that the entire demiplane is Strahd's self-portrait, but that's not an Inception thing, that's centuries of absolute control over who stays and who goes and centuries of mental, emotional, and physical abuse heaped on the population.
Barovia is created by Strahd's mind. It is his curse. He doesn't necessarily have much conscious control over it (though that is up to the DM).
From the section on Berez
"Strahd slew the priest and the burgomaster, then used his power over the land to swell the river, flooding the village and forcing the residents to flee."
Strahd can clearly affect the geography. He also controls the mists that surround Barovia.
Only about 1 in 10 Barovians have souls. See the "Souls and Shells" on p25
"Barovians without souls are empty shells created by his consciousness to fill out the local population."
However, Barovia is also Strahd's prison. He wants to leave if he could. Strahd made a bargain for endless life and the dark powers derive sustenance or pleasure from his suffering and evil actions.
"Strahd believes that the key to his escaping Barovia lies in finding someone worthy to rule in his stead"
So in some sense, the entirety of Barovia (with the exception of the creatures who actually have souls) is a product of Strahd's mind.
I always thought that Borovia is a real land that dark forces physically took it from material plane an placed into the Shadowfell. Strahd has full control over its nature now and even population. But now I see it as a representation of his memory. Borovia (the demiplane) is one place and Borovia is another. Like now even Amber Temple is just a fantasy
it kind of drives me mad because now all its “ancient dying world” is just an illusion
In the context of the game, the demiplane is real. The dark powers in the amber temple are real and presumably are now in the demiplane rather than where they were in the original Amber Temple. However, the dark powers derive sustenance from Strahd and his evil so they created the prison to confine Strahd.
However there are likely inconsistencies possible :)
"In time, cursed Barovia was torn from its home world by the Dark Powers and bound in mist as one of the Domains of Dread in the Shadowfell." from the intro
The demiplane of Barovia was created by the Dark Powers and indicates that the land was pulled from its original location into the demiplane. Strahd made a deal with the Dark Powers for immortality and would like an escape from his centuries of confinement to Barovia since it doesn't provide much of interest or much sustenance since only the real souls have any significance and Strahd can tell those with souls and those without just by looking.
"Unwilling to go the way of his father, Strahd studied magic and forged a pact with the Dark Powers of the Shadowfell in return for the promise of immortality."
"Strahd murdered Sergei and drank his blood, sealing the evil pact between Strahd and the Dark Powers."
"He believes in his cold heart that only a von Zarovich as great as he or his father could sway the Dark Powers to release him."
However, the dark powers obviously exercise some fundamental control over the form of Barovia ... it isn't just Strahd's imagination.
"By the will of the Dark Powers, the sun never fully shines in the lands of Barovia."
"When Strahd later murdered his brother Sergei, that pact was sealed with blood. Strahd transformed into a vampire, and the Dark Powers turned his land into a prison."
"He knows only that the Dark Powers that created Strahd's domain were born in the temple, and that these entities feed on the evil that Strahd represents. Strahd is the darkness that sustains them."
"Some students of the arcane contend that the Dark Powers took a bit of that fog and twisted it to create the mists of Barovia, and that perhaps Strahd's domain is just a dark memory in the Whispering Wall."
The last suggests that the Dark Powers created the demiplane based on Strahd's memory while the intro suggests the land was moved to the demiplane. In either case, Strahd has some control over the shape of the land and the population is in part a product of his mind or his imagination likely guided or put in place by the Dark Powers. The land is theirs and Strahd is theirs. The land is his prison.
In addition, the land is not an illusion. You can't disbelieve it. When you open your eyes it is still there. The form may be defined based on Strahd's mind/memories but it is very much real to Strahd, to the inhabitants and to the adventurers.
P.S. The only reason I know all this is that I am currently running it :) ... Characters are now level 8 so have been through most of the content except the Amber Temple and Castle Ravenloft.
Wow, thanks. You have persuaded me. Thanks for researching all that info. You are super helpful✨
Barovia is a real place in the demi plane of dread, which is surrounded by mist. Anyone who is powerful and evil enough will basically create their own domain if they walk into the mists surrounding the lands. Once this happens they are trapped there to rule as they see fit. Strahd is only one of the dark lords that inhabit Ravenloft. Lord Soth is a death knight, Harkon Lucas is a werewolf and Ankhtepot is a greater mummy. You can see the theme I'm sure. :)