In a campaign that I run, I have a player that has been playing for a while (I think about 6 years, and I've only been playing for about 9 months) and he always argues about rules as written as a lot of campaigns he's played have used a lot of homebrew or house rules. He always gloats about having played for longer than anyone else, but he seems to understand the actual rules of DnD 5e a lot less than I do. He also insists on playing a lone wolf character and says he doesn't and just plays characters that don't like "idiots" (he's usually referring to all PCs and NPCs but himself when he says that) A couple of the other players have been asking me to do something about it, but I'm fairly new to DMing and have no clue what to do. Any and all advice will probably be used.
Have an out of game chat, find out exactly what the other players are unhappy about and what they see as a good outcome. Then discuss with the problem player. If said player does not like it or agree to the requests then time to say good bye.
Bring this up to the problem player first, and let him know that the way he argues rulings and plays lone wolf characters have made the game less fun for other people, so ask him to tone it down. Try not to be accusatory, since it's possible that he genuinely doesn't realize his behavior is hurtful. If he's a mature adult/teenager, he should understand. If not, then you might have to give him the boot. It's not worth sacrificing everyone else's fun to keep a problem player around.
I agree that you need to have a conversation with him, out of game. It's going to be hard to do this because it's almost impossible that it won't become adversarial. You may, in the end, have no choice but to show this player the door.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
One non confrontational way to handle the rules lawyering is to talk to that player before the next session, maybe while things are getting set up. Simply tell them that since you are newer that you prefer to run things RAW to get things down pat before you consider adding any houserules, and that you are open to ideas, but only after sessions. Ask them to take written notes and submit them later, but not during sessions, kinda like a suggestion box. In fact, open the suggestion box to everyone. You may get some suggestions that you like, and there is no reason to not consider them. But this way at least that will all be addressed outside of normal gameplay. Tell them that as you have time to consider those ideas thoroughly that you might bring up any you like for group consideration down the road before starting the next campaign. It would let them feel heard, but also avoids any obligation on your part to implement anything before you are ready, and hopefully it will keep the sessions moving. If they interrupt again, hand them a slip of paper, remind them to write it down and just keep moving forward as if not interrupted. Often, a firm but fair attitude can alleviate these kinds of issues. If they keep it up, then it would be time for a more serious, private conversation about boundaries.
As to the lone wolfing, that could be tougher. Again, I must agree with the others that a private conversation is in order. But I would frame the conversation in such a way that it becomes less about “their behavior” and more about “your job” keeping things moving for everyone. Make it clear that you, as the DM, need to follow everyone with the camera, and when they go lone wolf that makes it hard to DM. Tell them that you won’t always be able to keep the camera on them if they go off on their own. Point blank ask them to “help the newer DM” by either keeping the group together in the first place, or being patient if they choose not to. The next time they go lone wolf, let them. But keep the narrative focused on the larger group until that is resolved, and then refocus on the loner afterword. Then if they complain about it, you can legitimately point to your previous conversation and let them know that the exact thing they are complaining about is the exact thing you were hoping to avoid. And let them know the easiest thing they can do to prevent that situation is to not put you in it by going loner mid session. Again, if they persist, it would be time for a more blunt conversation about things in private.
Recommend a psychiatrist to help them find a healthier outlet for their life’s problems that doesn’t negatively affect the people around them. D&D can be a great way to deal with life’s issues, but as a certified internet doctor, it sounds to me like they are using the powers of D&D to drift further down the path of the dark side (that’s the official clinical term of internet doctorology). I actually don’t know if I’m joking or serious lol.
Everyone else covered the actual solutions. Just comes down to communication, having an honest and open discussion. They may be a lost cause, unfortunately.
Yes, definitely talk with the player outside of game time.
In terms of the rules, you're the DM, it's your world, you make the rules, period. If he has a hard time with that, he'll just have to find another table.
(Of course it's important to apply the rules evenly, consistently and fairly)
I totally agree with what everyone else said. Except the part about telling him to get a psychiatrist. Don’t do that. (But I think that person was joking 😊.)
I totally agree with what everyone else said. Except the part about telling him to get a psychiatrist. Don’t do that. (But I think that person was joking 😊.)
lol I’m 99% sure I was joking, still don’t know. You could start the conversation out by telling them to lay down and ask them about their childhood trauma. “So, let’s find out why you are such a royal pain in the butt...”
I totally agree with what everyone else said. Except the part about telling him to get a psychiatrist. Don’t do that. (But I think that person was joking 😊.)
lol I’m 99% sure I was joking, still don’t know. You could start the conversation out by telling them to lay down and ask them about their childhood trauma. “So, let’s find out why you are such a royal pain in the butt...”
The players that think they're the GMs. The bane of any table.
I get that it's not always easy to just forget what we know when playing D&D (eg. "That's totally a Mindwitness, but my character's never seen one. So, how do I react as if I don't know what that is?"), but still, it's one thing to know the rules from both sides of the screen (though it seems the player in question doesn't know RaW very well). It's something else entirely to try to GM from the wrong side of the screen.
If the player was a GM in the past, the GM style of the player in question seems to be a combative one and would not work well in 5e from either side of the screen. The player vs. GM trope fits poorly with 5e and "my story is the only story" never worked well in D&D from either side of the screen in any edition.
As mentioned, communication is key. That means speaking and listening. As GM of a table, that means mediating, too. Try to understand where the player is coming from if the player is willing to talk. If the player is unwilling to communicate or if the player communicates unwillingness to play with others instead of playing against others, then the player leaves you with few options, and you might have to take an action you'd prefer to avoid, but that's on the player, not you.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The players that think they're the GMs. The bane of any table.
I get that it's not always easy to just forget what we know when playing D&D (eg. "That's totally a Mindwitness, but my character's never seen one. So, how do I react as if I don't know what that is?"), but still, it's one thing to know the rules from both sides of the screen (though it seems the player in question doesn't know RaW very well). It's something else entirely to try to GM from the wrong side of the screen.
If the player was a GM in the past, the GM style of the player in question seems to be a combative one and would not work well in 5e from either side of the screen. The player vs. GM trope fits poorly with 5e and "my story is the only story" never worked well in D&D from either side of the screen in any edition.
As mentioned, communication is key. That means speaking and listening. As GM of a table, that means mediating, too. Try to understand where the player is coming from if the player is willing to talk. If the player is unwilling to communicate or if the player communicates unwillingness to play with others instead of playing against others, then the player leaves you with few options, and you might have to take an action you'd prefer to avoid, but that's on the player, not you.
The problem is that he hasn't DMed in the past, he just thinks he's a dm
If he really makes a big deal about raw vs. rai then tell him that you are the dungeon master, infinitely more powerful than the gods and could kill his pc with just a flick, and that this is your house and your rules. If he's still being a ****** then show him the door politely so as not to damage your relationship.
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In a campaign that I run, I have a player that has been playing for a while (I think about 6 years, and I've only been playing for about 9 months) and he always argues about rules as written as a lot of campaigns he's played have used a lot of homebrew or house rules. He always gloats about having played for longer than anyone else, but he seems to understand the actual rules of DnD 5e a lot less than I do. He also insists on playing a lone wolf character and says he doesn't and just plays characters that don't like "idiots" (he's usually referring to all PCs and NPCs but himself when he says that) A couple of the other players have been asking me to do something about it, but I'm fairly new to DMing and have no clue what to do. Any and all advice will probably be used.
Mystic
Talk to the jerk. Show the jerk the door. Tell jerk if he does not straight up and fly right, they be on the other side of door.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Have an out of game chat, find out exactly what the other players are unhappy about and what they see as a good outcome. Then discuss with the problem player. If said player does not like it or agree to the requests then time to say good bye.
Bring this up to the problem player first, and let him know that the way he argues rulings and plays lone wolf characters have made the game less fun for other people, so ask him to tone it down. Try not to be accusatory, since it's possible that he genuinely doesn't realize his behavior is hurtful. If he's a mature adult/teenager, he should understand. If not, then you might have to give him the boot. It's not worth sacrificing everyone else's fun to keep a problem player around.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I agree that you need to have a conversation with him, out of game. It's going to be hard to do this because it's almost impossible that it won't become adversarial. You may, in the end, have no choice but to show this player the door.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
One non confrontational way to handle the rules lawyering is to talk to that player before the next session, maybe while things are getting set up. Simply tell them that since you are newer that you prefer to run things RAW to get things down pat before you consider adding any houserules, and that you are open to ideas, but only after sessions. Ask them to take written notes and submit them later, but not during sessions, kinda like a suggestion box. In fact, open the suggestion box to everyone. You may get some suggestions that you like, and there is no reason to not consider them. But this way at least that will all be addressed outside of normal gameplay. Tell them that as you have time to consider those ideas thoroughly that you might bring up any you like for group consideration down the road before starting the next campaign. It would let them feel heard, but also avoids any obligation on your part to implement anything before you are ready, and hopefully it will keep the sessions moving. If they interrupt again, hand them a slip of paper, remind them to write it down and just keep moving forward as if not interrupted. Often, a firm but fair attitude can alleviate these kinds of issues. If they keep it up, then it would be time for a more serious, private conversation about boundaries.
As to the lone wolfing, that could be tougher. Again, I must agree with the others that a private conversation is in order. But I would frame the conversation in such a way that it becomes less about “their behavior” and more about “your job” keeping things moving for everyone. Make it clear that you, as the DM, need to follow everyone with the camera, and when they go lone wolf that makes it hard to DM. Tell them that you won’t always be able to keep the camera on them if they go off on their own. Point blank ask them to “help the newer DM” by either keeping the group together in the first place, or being patient if they choose not to. The next time they go lone wolf, let them. But keep the narrative focused on the larger group until that is resolved, and then refocus on the loner afterword. Then if they complain about it, you can legitimately point to your previous conversation and let them know that the exact thing they are complaining about is the exact thing you were hoping to avoid. And let them know the easiest thing they can do to prevent that situation is to not put you in it by going loner mid session. Again, if they persist, it would be time for a more blunt conversation about things in private.
I hope that helps.
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Recommend a psychiatrist to help them find a healthier outlet for their life’s problems that doesn’t negatively affect the people around them. D&D can be a great way to deal with life’s issues, but as a certified internet doctor, it sounds to me like they are using the powers of D&D to drift further down the path of the dark side (that’s the official clinical term of internet doctorology). I actually don’t know if I’m joking or serious lol.
Everyone else covered the actual solutions.
Just comes down to communication, having an honest and open discussion. They may be a lost cause, unfortunately.
Yes, definitely talk with the player outside of game time.
In terms of the rules, you're the DM, it's your world, you make the rules, period. If he has a hard time with that, he'll just have to find another table.
(Of course it's important to apply the rules evenly, consistently and fairly)
I totally agree with what everyone else said. Except the part about telling him to get a psychiatrist. Don’t do that. (But I think that person was joking 😊.)
lol I’m 99% sure I was joking, still don’t know. You could start the conversation out by telling them to lay down and ask them about their childhood trauma. “So, let’s find out why you are such a royal pain in the butt...”
😂😂😂😂
The players that think they're the GMs. The bane of any table.
I get that it's not always easy to just forget what we know when playing D&D (eg. "That's totally a Mindwitness, but my character's never seen one. So, how do I react as if I don't know what that is?"), but still, it's one thing to know the rules from both sides of the screen (though it seems the player in question doesn't know RaW very well). It's something else entirely to try to GM from the wrong side of the screen.
If the player was a GM in the past, the GM style of the player in question seems to be a combative one and would not work well in 5e from either side of the screen. The player vs. GM trope fits poorly with 5e and "my story is the only story" never worked well in D&D from either side of the screen in any edition.
As mentioned, communication is key. That means speaking and listening. As GM of a table, that means mediating, too. Try to understand where the player is coming from if the player is willing to talk. If the player is unwilling to communicate or if the player communicates unwillingness to play with others instead of playing against others, then the player leaves you with few options, and you might have to take an action you'd prefer to avoid, but that's on the player, not you.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The bane of any table.
In particular the attitude of "but I allow this homebrew/optional interpretation of the rules at my table, why can't you just allow it at yours?"
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
The problem is that he hasn't DMed in the past, he just thinks he's a dm
Mystic
If he really makes a big deal about raw vs. rai then tell him that you are the dungeon master, infinitely more powerful than the gods and could kill his pc with just a flick, and that this is your house and your rules. If he's still being a ****** then show him the door politely so as not to damage your relationship.