Chapter 2 of the module gives some guidance to alterations to magic.
For some reason I feel that I want to make it a bit more dire. I feel that the mist that seals the players in there is a bit selective....I mean, there is no way to use magic to get out of barovia using a magic spell, you can't banish something off the plane but "While in Barovia, characters who receive spells from deities or otherworldly patrons continue to do so." Because so it's said, you can also contact being on other planes. But! "Strahd can sense when someone in his domain is casting such a spell and bladiebla".
Now that last bit tells me that somehow his powers, are related to the plane he's on. And he got his powers from the pact with the 'Dark Powers' and his nursing 'mother' Baba Lysaga, which is (basically) the fleshly form of Mother Night.
Not much is told in the book about these deities, but I read somewhere else that the Morning lord is basically Lathander, and Mother Night is comparable to Shar.
My question is, what do you think if I would implement (something like) the following rule:
Each time a player uses their divine power, I roll a d20: (they will already freak out because of me rolling ;-) )
From dawn till dusk: on a 20 - instead of reaching their deity they feel a connection to the Morning Lord (Lathander)
From dusk till dawn: on a 1 - instead of reaching their deity they reach Mother Night (Shar)
The effects would be that when reaching the morning Lord I would narrate the moment of relief for the party, (they could swear the light peaked through the clouds for just a second and as the sunlight hits their skin...) with a bonus - I would say something related to morale, inspiration or something like that. This will strengthen their resolve. And if the player likes it and with multiple successes it can develop into a worshipping or new bond with the Morning Lord that will give them some additional perks or spells that will help them fight Strahd.
When reaching the Mother Night I would say the spell backfires, healing might deal necrotic damage instead, scaled with the power of the cleric or paladin in our case. I also feel that whenever this happens it corrupts them somewhat, they feel the power of the darkness pulling them in, get haunted by dreams of Mother Night, get visages of Baby Lysaga who now knows exactly where they are.
Any feedback or comments on lore mistake is welcome (I am quite new to all the lore content)
That’s a great idea! Some of the Ravenloft lore from 2e explicitly states that the Morninglord is Lathander, and Shar could defo be one of the Dark Powers.
I'm generally not a fan of corrupting fundamental player abilities. Divine casters have spells that they rely on for a reason. People choose to play them because they are fun and have certain abilities.
Take your example of dealing necrotic damage instead of healing. One of the most common uses of a healing spell is to get a team mate back on their feet so that they aren't making any death saves. Imagine a common scene where a character is down and has failed a death save, the paladin goes to cast cure wounds or the cleric healing word. The Night mother intervenes, it does necrotic damage instead, the character with one death save fail takes two more automatic death save fails due to the damage and is instantly dead. Roll a new character or try to find a source of raise dead assuming the party survives the combat. I've had situations like this come up several times running CoS. If the casters can't rely on their healing magic then they can't afford to use it and they can't afford to try to bring any character back into a fight since a failure results in two automatic failed death saves and when their turn comes around it is a 50/50 chance of immediate death.
From a role play perspective your example sounds cool but the mechanics suggested will break the class.
There are also different opinions from where exactly divine casters get the power to cast spells. They draw on a source of divine power but there may not be any requirement for them to have any direct connection with their diety to do so. In addition, in 5e, paladins may use the divine caster spell list but their ability to cast spells is derived from their oath and their personal willpower and not due to a connection with any specific diety. At least in 5e, there is no connection to a well of divine power for a paladin so your suggestion wouldn't make sense for a paladin (it works fine for clerics still).
Anyway, I think the concept is cool. If I was going to do something mechanically I would tend to decrease (Nightmother) or increase (Morning Lord) the effects of spells rather than changing how they work altogether (or vice versa for a character who follows the Nightmother). For spells without a save you could increase/decrease die used. Cure wounds -> d10 for Morninglord and -> d6 for Nightmother. For spells with saves, the Morninglord could increase the DC by one while the Night Mother could decrease the DC by 1. You could scale these effects up a little as a character builds a connection with one or the other.
Thanks for the feedback, I am rethinking my idea based upon your example and you're right, I think it is to influencial to be fun.
I will therefore go with just the flavoring of the spell, maybe just to scare them, bring some doubt. For example if it's the Nightmother, the healing will still work but they'll see a different spell effect, the player healed will feel a pulsation of dark energy going through him - drawing him into the dark powers that saved him.
I'll need to work out a more roleplaying oriented mechanic that allows the players themselves to choose if they want to entertain these dieties or they can choose to ignore them and the effects will be limited. I do still feel that I want to introduce the option and include some cool perks to unlock if they persue the thread.
Chapter 2 of the module gives some guidance to alterations to magic.
For some reason I feel that I want to make it a bit more dire. I feel that the mist that seals the players in there is a bit selective....I mean, there is no way to use magic to get out of barovia using a magic spell, you can't banish something off the plane but "While in Barovia, characters who receive spells from deities or otherworldly patrons continue to do so." Because so it's said, you can also contact being on other planes. But! "Strahd can sense when someone in his domain is casting such a spell and bladiebla".
Now that last bit tells me that somehow his powers, are related to the plane he's on. And he got his powers from the pact with the 'Dark Powers' and his nursing 'mother' Baba Lysaga, which is (basically) the fleshly form of Mother Night.
Not much is told in the book about these deities, but I read somewhere else that the Morning lord is basically Lathander, and Mother Night is comparable to Shar.
My question is, what do you think if I would implement (something like) the following rule:
Each time a player uses their divine power, I roll a d20: (they will already freak out because of me rolling ;-) )
From dawn till dusk: on a 20 - instead of reaching their deity they feel a connection to the Morning Lord (Lathander)
From dusk till dawn: on a 1 - instead of reaching their deity they reach Mother Night (Shar)
The effects would be that when reaching the morning Lord I would narrate the moment of relief for the party, (they could swear the light peaked through the clouds for just a second and as the sunlight hits their skin...) with a bonus - I would say something related to morale, inspiration or something like that. This will strengthen their resolve. And if the player likes it and with multiple successes it can develop into a worshipping or new bond with the Morning Lord that will give them some additional perks or spells that will help them fight Strahd.
When reaching the Mother Night I would say the spell backfires, healing might deal necrotic damage instead, scaled with the power of the cleric or paladin in our case. I also feel that whenever this happens it corrupts them somewhat, they feel the power of the darkness pulling them in, get haunted by dreams of Mother Night, get visages of Baby Lysaga who now knows exactly where they are.
Any feedback or comments on lore mistake is welcome (I am quite new to all the lore content)
That’s a great idea! Some of the Ravenloft lore from 2e explicitly states that the Morninglord is Lathander, and Shar could defo be one of the Dark Powers.
I'm generally not a fan of corrupting fundamental player abilities. Divine casters have spells that they rely on for a reason. People choose to play them because they are fun and have certain abilities.
Take your example of dealing necrotic damage instead of healing. One of the most common uses of a healing spell is to get a team mate back on their feet so that they aren't making any death saves. Imagine a common scene where a character is down and has failed a death save, the paladin goes to cast cure wounds or the cleric healing word. The Night mother intervenes, it does necrotic damage instead, the character with one death save fail takes two more automatic death save fails due to the damage and is instantly dead. Roll a new character or try to find a source of raise dead assuming the party survives the combat. I've had situations like this come up several times running CoS. If the casters can't rely on their healing magic then they can't afford to use it and they can't afford to try to bring any character back into a fight since a failure results in two automatic failed death saves and when their turn comes around it is a 50/50 chance of immediate death.
From a role play perspective your example sounds cool but the mechanics suggested will break the class.
There are also different opinions from where exactly divine casters get the power to cast spells. They draw on a source of divine power but there may not be any requirement for them to have any direct connection with their diety to do so. In addition, in 5e, paladins may use the divine caster spell list but their ability to cast spells is derived from their oath and their personal willpower and not due to a connection with any specific diety. At least in 5e, there is no connection to a well of divine power for a paladin so your suggestion wouldn't make sense for a paladin (it works fine for clerics still).
Anyway, I think the concept is cool. If I was going to do something mechanically I would tend to decrease (Nightmother) or increase (Morning Lord) the effects of spells rather than changing how they work altogether (or vice versa for a character who follows the Nightmother). For spells without a save you could increase/decrease die used. Cure wounds -> d10 for Morninglord and -> d6 for Nightmother. For spells with saves, the Morninglord could increase the DC by one while the Night Mother could decrease the DC by 1. You could scale these effects up a little as a character builds a connection with one or the other.
Hi,
Thanks for the feedback, I am rethinking my idea based upon your example and you're right, I think it is to influencial to be fun.
I will therefore go with just the flavoring of the spell, maybe just to scare them, bring some doubt. For example if it's the Nightmother, the healing will still work but they'll see a different spell effect, the player healed will feel a pulsation of dark energy going through him - drawing him into the dark powers that saved him.
I'll need to work out a more roleplaying oriented mechanic that allows the players themselves to choose if they want to entertain these dieties or they can choose to ignore them and the effects will be limited. I do still feel that I want to introduce the option and include some cool perks to unlock if they persue the thread.