This one's simple: if you want to run an arena adventure, find some other way to get them into the arena. There's practically endless plot hooks you could use to accomplish this. For example, what if the super special MacGuffin is the reward for winning? What if the big bad is planning to invite the champions to his castle, and the PCs need a way inside? Or what if your PCs just like money? In this case, the pets won't be an issue, because your PCs should realize they would be in danger and leave them behind.
If you want to use the ambush scenario, spring it on their closest NPC allies or other important NPCs they might be asked to save. Now the PCs have to get into the ring in order to protect them! Oh, but now they ended up fighting each other? Cue pathos.
Alternatively, run this as the start of a campaign. Players are much more likely to buy in to the idea in that case.
If you absolutely must run this as a scenario where the PCs are captured first, then do as others suggested and keep it in your back pocket to save them from a TPK.
There was a thread on here a few months ago by a DM who had a situation in which the party had triggered half a dungeon to come down on them and got outnumbered... when they fled, a couple went down, and then another one got caught in a pit trap. The DM by this point had stated that the bad guys were striking to incapacitate, not kill.
In response, the last 2 players whose characters were still up said, "We kill ourselves." That is how much they objected to being captured. They would rather kill their characters, end the campaign, and start over, than be taken prisoner and have to escape.
Not all players will be this extreme but players hate losing fights. Fact of RPGs.
Might be a generational thing or the fact that I usually put them up against opponents who also more often than not won't stand their ground to death, but both my parties are more than willing to "run away! run away!" the moment the party is around 50% hp capacity and 25% healing resources. This usually leads to rematches and do overs involving ambush tactics, traps ... I'm surprised there isn't an A Team style welding montage but neither party has artificers. They're having fun though, and it does make for greater role playing antagonism in the return bouts, so I've stopped punctuating the withdrawal tactics with "seriously?" and just let their patrons occasionally get irate with their foot dragging and craven behavior in comparison to expected adventurer standards. I really do need to trot "Brave Sir Robin" into the campaign somehow.
For the pets, it might be particularly horrifying for the pets to be "turned" in loyalty to the other side, and some sort of quest to restore the PCs bond would have to be done in followup. Otherwise, depending on the type of prison, the pets (probably not the mini dragon) may actually be allowed in general population. Depending on what sort of penological system you have in place, a "prison" could well just be a common space all the imprisoned population share and languish in. Solitary confinement was more for "serious threats" or severe punishment or protection of value of the detained. It could well be that the common animals are allowed into the prison with the prisoners but any high value or exotic pets be detained elsewhere, or added to the jailers own personal riches. Maybe there's a Bird Man of Alcatraz type figure on the inside too who can ally with the PCs out of animal husbandry solidarity.
Remember, players should always be able to control their fate. You shouldn't force them into a battle.
Are you able to put them into a position where they choose to enter instead? E.g. they are told either they fight, or a group of innocent villagers/children/monks will be entered into the arena in their place? That creates a far more interesting dynamic and allows them to roleplay, rather than hitting them with overwhelming force.
Personally, not knowing what lies in store, I'd fight to the death. Allow the players to keep all their gear and have them make a decision. And if they choose to let the innocents die in their place, that is their choice and you need to run the game in that direction instead.
If you really want to imprison your party (rather than saving it as a get out for a TPK), a spell or other method to knock the entire party unconscious might work, and they wake up without their equipment in a cell.
For the pets, I like the idea of the baddies stealing them and the party having to rescue them. However, the idea of running an adventure with the pets to rescue the party sounds super cute and lots of fun!
If you have predetermined that hey will be captured no matter what, then do not even play out the battle. It rightfully infuriates players to fight believing they have a chance at victory or escape or even choosing death only to find out they were railroaded into an unalterable outcome
if you absolutely must ensure they are captured, do it narratively. They’ll still dislike it but they won’t lose trust in your sense of fairness.
If you have predetermined that hey will be captured no matter what, then do not even play out the battle. It rightfully infuriates players to fight believing they have a chance at victory or escape or even choosing death only to find out they were railroaded into an unalterable outcome
if you absolutely must ensure they are captured, do it narratively. They’ll still dislike it but they won’t lose trust in your sense of fairness.
I agree with this. I personally don't see a need to play every moment of a characters lives, and sometimes will even start a game in "media res" even (a technique I picked up from the original Star Wars RPG before I even knew film and technical narrative vocabulary). If they need to be arrested, have the arrest be prologue and the game start "you're languishing in jail...", no need to play it out. For one, what if the players get really lucky with their defense against the authorities? Are you going to go through the absurdity of exponentially increased resources being spent on tracking down your fugitive adventurers to get them to where you actually wanted the game to start? That's especially important a consideration if you have only one or true players who'll be defiant and maybe even go "runner."
That said, this sort of narrative intervention isn't a right to rob them, so you'll need to give them ample opportunity to access and regain their property, and the menagerie. Again, a cruder prison infrastructure may allow your players to be dumped into the jail with their pets. Security risk pets of course will likely be segregated.
Of course you just set the scene. You may want some sort of arena combat, but your players and going to start playing prison break as soon as you tell them they're in jail unless you make incarceration interesting or incentivize their stay in custody beyond being dragged out for obligatory combat.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If you have predetermined that hey will be captured no matter what, then do not even play out the battle. It rightfully infuriates players to fight believing they have a chance at victory or escape or even choosing death only to find out they were railroaded into an unalterable outcome
if you absolutely must ensure they are captured, do it narratively. They’ll still dislike it but they won’t lose trust in your sense of fairness.
I kind of don't agree. I think they will feel more cheated if they aren't given the chance to fight back. No matter how outnumbered, they will still believe there was some chance they could have won.
Generally I think if you have a whole squad of guys with ranged weapons on rooftops, you can probably take them all out in a round or two by just rolling a bucket of d20s and saying, "Okay, that's 27 crossbow hits. I'm just going to roll d10s. Tell me when you're down." If they saw 50 guys on rooftops and thought they could win it, now you've proven them wrong. Or maybe they can, with some really clever spell. That should also be a possibility. You can try to make it 90% likely they'll get captured, but their actions still matter. If they overcome the odds, you'll have to change your plot, but they'll feel heroic, which is half the point of the game.
If you have predetermined that hey will be captured no matter what, then do not even play out the battle. It rightfully infuriates players to fight believing they have a chance at victory or escape or even choosing death only to find out they were railroaded into an unalterable outcome
if you absolutely must ensure they are captured, do it narratively. They’ll still dislike it but they won’t lose trust in your sense of fairness.
I think that "Do not predetermine that they are captured" is better advice.
Players should never be forced into being in a particular place at one particular time. Even if they're captured, they may refuse to play your Hunger Games. Try not to railroad them. If they choose to fight to the death against forces that try to capture them, then they may well die.
There was a thread on here a few months ago by a DM who had a situation in which the party had triggered half a dungeon to come down on them and got outnumbered... when they fled, a couple went down, and then another one got caught in a pit trap. The DM by this point had stated that the bad guys were striking to incapacitate, not kill.
In response, the last 2 players whose characters were still up said, "We kill ourselves." That is how much they objected to being captured. They would rather kill their characters, end the campaign, and start over, than be taken prisoner and have to escape.
Not all players will be this extreme but players hate losing fights. Fact of RPGs.
Oh yeah! Like the classic scene in The Two Towers when Merry and Pippin kill themselves after being captured by the orcs!
I don't get some players. I've had my groups "saved" by a TPK because the attackers decided to take them hostage to use as sacrifices to their gods in the past, and the players all liked the added drama and tension an escape (and subsequent gear recovery) brought on, mainly because they would rather be captured than end a campaign on a sour note like that.
If you have predetermined that hey will be captured no matter what, then do not even play out the battle. It rightfully infuriates players to fight believing they have a chance at victory or escape or even choosing death only to find out they were railroaded into an unalterable outcome
if you absolutely must ensure they are captured, do it narratively. They’ll still dislike it but they won’t lose trust in your sense of fairness.
I think that "Do not predetermine that they are captured" is better advice.
Players should never be forced into being in a particular place at one particular time. Even if they're captured, they may refuse to play your Hunger Games. Try not to railroad them. If they choose to fight to the death against forces that try to capture them, then they may well die.
If there is anyone with a Good alignment in this campaign then guilt trip them into it. Otherwise, we're back to rewards.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Chilling kinda vibe.
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I think the thing to do is to make escape a distinct possibility. If characters know capture is not the end then they will be more amenable to it.
Chilling kinda vibe.
This one's simple: if you want to run an arena adventure, find some other way to get them into the arena. There's practically endless plot hooks you could use to accomplish this. For example, what if the super special MacGuffin is the reward for winning? What if the big bad is planning to invite the champions to his castle, and the PCs need a way inside? Or what if your PCs just like money? In this case, the pets won't be an issue, because your PCs should realize they would be in danger and leave them behind.
If you want to use the ambush scenario, spring it on their closest NPC allies or other important NPCs they might be asked to save. Now the PCs have to get into the ring in order to protect them! Oh, but now they ended up fighting each other? Cue pathos.
Alternatively, run this as the start of a campaign. Players are much more likely to buy in to the idea in that case.
If you absolutely must run this as a scenario where the PCs are captured first, then do as others suggested and keep it in your back pocket to save them from a TPK.
Might be a generational thing or the fact that I usually put them up against opponents who also more often than not won't stand their ground to death, but both my parties are more than willing to "run away! run away!" the moment the party is around 50% hp capacity and 25% healing resources. This usually leads to rematches and do overs involving ambush tactics, traps ... I'm surprised there isn't an A Team style welding montage but neither party has artificers. They're having fun though, and it does make for greater role playing antagonism in the return bouts, so I've stopped punctuating the withdrawal tactics with "seriously?" and just let their patrons occasionally get irate with their foot dragging and craven behavior in comparison to expected adventurer standards. I really do need to trot "Brave Sir Robin" into the campaign somehow.
For the pets, it might be particularly horrifying for the pets to be "turned" in loyalty to the other side, and some sort of quest to restore the PCs bond would have to be done in followup. Otherwise, depending on the type of prison, the pets (probably not the mini dragon) may actually be allowed in general population. Depending on what sort of penological system you have in place, a "prison" could well just be a common space all the imprisoned population share and languish in. Solitary confinement was more for "serious threats" or severe punishment or protection of value of the detained. It could well be that the common animals are allowed into the prison with the prisoners but any high value or exotic pets be detained elsewhere, or added to the jailers own personal riches. Maybe there's a Bird Man of Alcatraz type figure on the inside too who can ally with the PCs out of animal husbandry solidarity.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Remember, players should always be able to control their fate. You shouldn't force them into a battle.
Are you able to put them into a position where they choose to enter instead? E.g. they are told either they fight, or a group of innocent villagers/children/monks will be entered into the arena in their place? That creates a far more interesting dynamic and allows them to roleplay, rather than hitting them with overwhelming force.
Personally, not knowing what lies in store, I'd fight to the death. Allow the players to keep all their gear and have them make a decision. And if they choose to let the innocents die in their place, that is their choice and you need to run the game in that direction instead.
If you really want to imprison your party (rather than saving it as a get out for a TPK), a spell or other method to knock the entire party unconscious might work, and they wake up without their equipment in a cell.
For the pets, I like the idea of the baddies stealing them and the party having to rescue them. However, the idea of running an adventure with the pets to rescue the party sounds super cute and lots of fun!
If you have predetermined that hey will be captured no matter what, then do not even play out the battle. It rightfully infuriates players to fight believing they have a chance at victory or escape or even choosing death only to find out they were railroaded into an unalterable outcome
if you absolutely must ensure they are captured, do it narratively. They’ll still dislike it but they won’t lose trust in your sense of fairness.
I agree with this. I personally don't see a need to play every moment of a characters lives, and sometimes will even start a game in "media res" even (a technique I picked up from the original Star Wars RPG before I even knew film and technical narrative vocabulary). If they need to be arrested, have the arrest be prologue and the game start "you're languishing in jail...", no need to play it out. For one, what if the players get really lucky with their defense against the authorities? Are you going to go through the absurdity of exponentially increased resources being spent on tracking down your fugitive adventurers to get them to where you actually wanted the game to start? That's especially important a consideration if you have only one or true players who'll be defiant and maybe even go "runner."
That said, this sort of narrative intervention isn't a right to rob them, so you'll need to give them ample opportunity to access and regain their property, and the menagerie. Again, a cruder prison infrastructure may allow your players to be dumped into the jail with their pets. Security risk pets of course will likely be segregated.
Of course you just set the scene. You may want some sort of arena combat, but your players and going to start playing prison break as soon as you tell them they're in jail unless you make incarceration interesting or incentivize their stay in custody beyond being dragged out for obligatory combat.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I kind of don't agree. I think they will feel more cheated if they aren't given the chance to fight back. No matter how outnumbered, they will still believe there was some chance they could have won.
Generally I think if you have a whole squad of guys with ranged weapons on rooftops, you can probably take them all out in a round or two by just rolling a bucket of d20s and saying, "Okay, that's 27 crossbow hits. I'm just going to roll d10s. Tell me when you're down." If they saw 50 guys on rooftops and thought they could win it, now you've proven them wrong. Or maybe they can, with some really clever spell. That should also be a possibility. You can try to make it 90% likely they'll get captured, but their actions still matter. If they overcome the odds, you'll have to change your plot, but they'll feel heroic, which is half the point of the game.
I think that "Do not predetermine that they are captured" is better advice.
Players should never be forced into being in a particular place at one particular time. Even if they're captured, they may refuse to play your Hunger Games. Try not to railroad them. If they choose to fight to the death against forces that try to capture them, then they may well die.
I'm picturing the pets sitting in a special section of the audience placing bets on the party.
"Fluffy! I am so glad I survived that battle and am reunited with you!"
"Yeah it's great to see you or whatever but you lost me 50 gp and my silver collar!"
Oh yeah! Like the classic scene in The Two Towers when Merry and Pippin kill themselves after being captured by the orcs!
I don't get some players. I've had my groups "saved" by a TPK because the attackers decided to take them hostage to use as sacrifices to their gods in the past, and the players all liked the added drama and tension an escape (and subsequent gear recovery) brought on, mainly because they would rather be captured than end a campaign on a sour note like that.
If there is anyone with a Good alignment in this campaign then guilt trip them into it. Otherwise, we're back to rewards.
Chilling kinda vibe.