So I'm running a game that I built for newer players and one of them is someone that hasn't really been exposed to dnd before. When I was working with this player, I told them that their backstory needs to give her motivation to be an adventurer. I explained that the profession is an extremely dangerous job and they need a reason to do it. 

At first, her backstory was all over the place and she kinda wanted a bit of everything. She wanted to be an orphan, a thief, an assassin, someone that owns land, had a best friend that was raped, is a bard who went to university even though they're from a poor farmer family that died, etc. I told her that's way to much and a lot of it makes no sense, especially given how low level her character was. Once that was finally resolved and narrowed down, I did what I pretty much never did as a DM before... have input. I gave her character a branding and I said she doesn't own the land her grandparents had and she had to sell it. She doesn't have motivation to research or look into her branding and she was upset that she doesn't own the farm house. I did this in hopes of giving her motivation and tying her to an actual character story.

Fast track to the party's first contract. They unknowingly took one of the hardest ones and her character almost died on multiple occasions, but walked away with scars. I asked her what her character motivation was for doing such incredibly dangerous jobs (now that she has exposure and irl experience for what I was saying) and her response was still, "I just want to have an adventure and have fun." My issue is that is an excellent PLAYER motivation but a terrible CHARACTER one. I suggested that earning enough money to buy back the farm can be her motivator but she just shrugged and said that's her retirement plan. 

I don't know how to handle this. They're going to be encountering dangerous situations and character development is a big thing for me as a DM but if the character has no motivation other than to have fun, I don't see why they would keep doing these contracts. They're not easy and they're given to the adventurers guild for a reason. I have nothing to tie her to the story arcs, I don't even have a story arc for her without REALLY stretching her backstory and manipulating it. At some point, I fully expect her character to question why they started adventuring because its not as fun and colorful as bards make it out to be (which her as a player and a character know for a fact, especially now). Otherwise, she as a player wont have fun or be invested in the story and might end up feeling like a side character in the other players story because she doesn't have her own. 

I made it clear that "I want to have an adventure" is not an acceptable motivation for me from a player and she did it anyway. I gave her a pass because she's new and maybe didn't understand me but even with experience, she's not changing her mind. I can see whenever they talk about their experience in character that she's questioning if this adventurer stuff was a good idea but she still wont budge and give me, and herself, a reason to keep doing this in character. 

I honestly don't know what to do and I think its starting to interfere with her as a players experience too. How do you guys think I should approach this? I can't change the arcs that have already come into play because it would change the way my entire world works and muck up the other players experiences. I can change her characters backstory if she was willing, but she isnt. I cant force her into a story arc because she has no motivation to be in it. I think she just wants to be an epic hero and go down as a legend but her lack of investment and motivation will make that difficult for her to be in the plot spotlight. I have approached her about this multiple times but she just gets defensive, dismissive, and ticked off if I press the issue too much.

i think if shes having fun let her have fun, some people just arnt as interested in deep character backstory as others and thats fine.

Maybe tell her to change it From "I just want to have an adventure and have fun." to something more like, " Adventuring has always seemed like an excellent idea to earn money by doing something I enjoy and that's what I plan to do, the more dangerous the more exciting. "

But, I mean as long as she's having fun it's fine. Just act like the party brought her along for an adventure because why not and you don't have to tie her into an actual storyline.

I now realize my thoughts make no sense whatsoever but I'm posting anyway.

I completely agree with that. My issue is that her expectation of the adventure is not what's actually happening or what I told her adventuring would be like. I can see it starting to get in the way of her actually having fun as a player.

For example, one of the contracts they took was to clear a mine of spiders. One player was having a blast because his low stats made for some really funny rp moments. Another player is super motivated to find out what was happening because my spiders had a twinge of corruption in them, which made them beefy and super weird (like one of them had 2 humanoid heads). She just got upset that she got downed and had 2 failed saves, nearly a third. 

And she refuses to change her motivation. Period. Whenever I approach the issue, she gets defensive and annoyed that I'm even poking holes at it. At some point, I'm going to have to give her an out and let her travel with a circus or apprentice with a traveling band or something and I'm hoping she'll then realize that she doesn't actually want to adventure.

I don't know. I want her to have fun and not feel like a sidekick in everyone elses story because I know her, I know she's going to want her moment in the spotlight but I can't give it to her if she doesn't give me a reason. It wont be as impactful with what she has given me now compared to if she backstory cared. 

hmmmm. well, im not sure what to say. if she doesnt like combat and doesnt like roleplay, d&d might just not be the right game for her.

Perhaps she isn't playing a Class that's right for her?

She wanted to be 3 classes looped into one; rogue- assassin, rogue -trickster, and bard.

I think she wanted to be a bard the most but went rogue instead. I told her she can be a bard as a class, but in rp, she would have to say she's a performer or entertainer or in a band or something because to claim you're a "bard", she would have to essentially graduate from a school which she didn't really want to do. I thought it might be fun, maybe give her motivation to enroll or change this somehow or make a new name for herself and essentially be the best bard in history without going to school for it but she wasnt having any of that and wanted to be a bard who can say shes a bard, without earning the title in the way I set it up in my world. Being a bard is a hard earned privilege which is why when someone says, "they're a bard", it entitles them to a lot of respect. She wanted that, but without the schooling. 

I get that she wants glory and stuff, but I need her to understand that she has to earn it. Not just have it in her backstory already. 

It seems like a lot of this is a playstyle difference. You want to play a different game than she wants to. And you are making an assumption that because the way she is playing wouldn't be fun for you that it won't be fun for her. You said character development is something that matters to you a lot. Maybe it doesn't matter to her. Or maybe it doesn't yet, because she hasn't really played enough to understand the concept. Try and meet her where she is. I've had tables where some people wrote long, detailed backstories, but others were content to just show up with a character sheet and a name and nothing more. They saw that people with more involved backstories ended up getting more intricate personal plotlines, but it never bothered them. The people with just a sheet of paper still had fun. And they still had their time to shine. Maybe they didn't get a fully realized side plot, but there were sessions and encounters where they had the right skills at the right time, and they got to save the day. All of that isn't to say that you are wrong. More that right now you and she want different things from the game, and you need to decide if you can make peace with the way she wants to play, or if it will be too bothersome.

As far as the backstory goes, it seems like she's making a common mistake that new players make. They're imagining the level 20 version of their character without understanding what it means to be level 1. I'd say find a real world analogy to explain it to her. Like you don't join the army as a general who's already fought in the wars. You start low and work your way up the ladder. Or your first day on the job is not as the CEO. You're in the mailroom, and need to earn your place. Something like that might help her understand. I've heard someone else say they limit character backstories to one paragraph per level. So if she's starting at level 1, she gets five-eight sentences to describe herself so far.

Or just don't force a backstory on her. Lots and lots of people play characters with little to no backstory and still have fun. Particularly if she's a new player. Let her see how the game works, see what people do with their characters and their backstories. Let her understand the mechanics of class, race and background. And understand what a backstory means at your table. Then for their next character, maybe she'll want to invest a bit more in a backstory. Or maybe as she continues to play this character, she'll develop motivations, which is generally more interesting anyway. Maybe right now, her motivation is taking jobs to make money, and that's usually good enough to start for almost all characters. But as things happen to her character, she starts to change a bit. Like she goes to fight the spiders, and gets her butt kicked, and now she has a hatred/fear of spiders, which she can use as a motivation going forward.

I think pressuring her too much might make her lose interest in her character and your game. If she likes to adventure, maybe she always had a wild side and a chaotic personality. Judging by what you've told us, this seems like it would fit her quite well. If she is unhappy with her class, then maybe bend a few rules and make the bard a little more roguey (especially in the bard college school sense, if she doesn't enjoy the idea of attending a school.) I am not talking full on homebrew, but don't be afraid to tweak some things. In general, try to suggest these ideas to her and not force them on her. Let her decide and if she doesn't want a grand character arc or motivation, then that is just how she plays and might not be right for your game. 

Not everyone who plays D&D likes to roleplay. That's fine. Same with not having a backstory. As long as she's having fun, you're doing everything fine. You don't need to force her to change her character just to suit your own definition of fun.

I would let it go. If she is OK with the character motivation of "My character wants to adventure because it's fun," and is willing to have the character go on the adventures you put in front of her, I don't really see that as a problem, from the DM's chair. 

To me, the problem players are ones who create characters who don't want to go on adventures... they want their character to be dragged kicking and screaming into every adventure with some dire, and extremely personal reason, which in a group game you simply cannot give to every party member in every adventure. Frankly, "My character just likes going on adventures because they're fun" sounds like a god-send to me, because with such a player you could probably put almost any quest in front of them and they will do it because it's there. That's how we use to play D&D in the old days, and it was soooo much easier on the DM than having to wrack our brains for a personal reason every damn time we start a new adventure.

Beyond all that, this is a new player. Do not expect the level of RP sophistication or backstory depth or character motivation out of a newbie that you'd expect out of a veteran. To some degree you have to let the new player ease his or her way into it, and if you try and get the player to RP with vet-level quality you'll be disappointed and she will be frustrated. She simply can't do this yet. Give her time to learn the game.

Look at the character class choice: "I want to be a rogue/assassin/trickster/bard." This sort of character idea comes from players who are not familiar with the limitations of the game mechanics. It's actually kind of refreshing. Rather than someone saying, "I want to have a Tiefling Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer/Warlock" so they can min-max their game mechanics, and then coming up with a concept that "justifies" the min-maxing, you have a player with no clue as to the game mechanics who is trying to come up with a concept first, and wants to do them all rolled into one. Now, obviously one cannot play a rogue/assassin/trickster/bard (not the least because two of those things are not actual character classes, and even if they were, nobody would recommend trying to do a 4-class character as a newbie), but for something like this, I would ask the player to get away from class names and just tell me what sorts of things they envision doing on an adventure. Do you envision a character who can perform, sing, dance, etc? Do you envision that these performances are normal ones or magical/special/bewitching? Does your character just know how to backstab people, or do you regularly accept contracts for murder? These sorts of questions would hopefully narrow it down.

 I told her she can be a bard as a class, but in rp, she would have to say she's a performer or entertainer or in a band or something because to claim you're a "bard", she would have to essentially graduate from a school which she didn't really want to do. 

I'm not sure why you'd place this limitation on her. If it is a world lore thing, I can respect that. And I recognize that Bards usually attend "colleges" and so her character, if not in the past, in the future (when choosing subclass, etc.) would need to attend these. If she's dead set against every attending colleges and especially if the world requires that, then OK, them's the breaks. But I'm not sure I'd try to push this in terms of "calling yourself a bard." Again, unless there is something extra-special about bards in your world lore.

I think to as much of an extent as possible without breaking your world lore (you shouldn't let players do that, even new ones, because it will degrade the experience for everyone) you should try to let the player have as much of the concept as she wants, and especially the motivation, as long as that motivation leads her to go on adventures. "I want to go on adventures because I think they are fun" lets her go on adventures and IMO is good enough, to start. Let her see the motivations the other players have and their more sophisticated RP and eventually she will catch on. But it may not really happen until she makes up her next character in the next campaign -- and as her friend + DM, you should be patient enough to give her the time to do that.

In many games, “I want to have an adventure” is a perfectly acceptable motivation, and many DMs (like BioWizard and me) love adaptable characters whose personal stories won’t twist the entire game around them! Maybe this player’s story isn’t what you want, but it’s not necessarily bad.

That said, if you want her to flesh out her motive a bit, give her options and suggestions. Is her character an Indiana Jones type who loves discovering forgotten places? Is she a warrior trying to prove her worth, maybe because of a mentor or ancestor’s legacy? Is she just addicted to the thrill of fighting, slaying, and risking her life? Or is she a skald who wants to be part of an epic story to retell?

As for her expectation of a happy adventure while you want to run a more grim or dark game, I can relate. My adventures tend to be lethal, and many have a grittier feel. I’ve had players who expect a bright and crazy anime-ish game, and who get upset when their character loses, is knocked out, or dies. This isn’t an easy thing to fix. Start by having a conversation with her, as friends, about what the expectation is for the game, and see where it goes. Good luck!

I'm agreeing with the latter posts that this isn't really a problem.  Does the DM really need another back story to cater in the party?  Based on the spider encounter as presented, I'd argue better player development would be produced if the DM would shift the DM attention from backstory and work more to coach against the frustration the player may be experiencing with the save fails etc.  It's highly possible given the DM's apparent frustration with the background and the player's mechanical frustrations, the new player could be souring and may become a non player.

Some players, especially new players, need time to build focus.  Keep the background vague and allowing the other back stories to "star" (putting the player in question into supporting cast initially) may give time for the DM and the player to develop a dynamic where a background will eventually surface and flourish.  <Cough>Player agency</cough> sometimes it's good idea for the DM to let the players ease into their characters.

In a lot of narratives "why's that person even there?" isn't entirely clear until much later in the course of events.  Let's say if LOTR was a game, would someone playing Strider play Strider differently (Ranger with edgelord tendencies) if the player hadn't figured out they were actually Aragorn yet?  

I think some planning leads to problematic intricacy, and I prefer a style where the story behind the game being played develops organically as pieces fall into place as they begin to make sense. 

Also, lots of DMs advise against detailed and involved backstories. As one internet DM (who I won't name because he is controversial) once said of backgrounds, "All you need is something to start." Something to get the PC onto that first adventure. Then, the interesting stuff is what happens going forward from there. All the important stuff happens at the table, not in the backstory.

This player had enough to start. Let the story build forward from there.

Yes, I'm definitely in the camp BioWizard describes, though not sure who the internet pundit is.  I understand some see "rich" background as something to mine for opportunity.  However, the problem with that view, in my view, is that backgrounds are also delimiters and determiners, anything being said about a character becomes a "rule" to adhere to in terms of the table's own lore, etc.  After session zero those backgrounds should be nimble and able to accommodate opportunities presented in the game played.  The less you say at the outset, the more you can say as the situation develops and you have more freedom to react.  I've learned that in instruction in writing, interviewing/interrogating, and negotiation.  It works well in TTRPGs too.

The problem comes when the player expects the DM to mix, as plot points, all this "rich" background material into the campaign. Doing that for one player may not be adventure-breaking. Trying to do it for 4 or 5 players all at the same time? It makes me not want to DM.

I had this problem to some degree in Champions. By the rules, each scenario, I was supposed to roll for every character's Dependent NPC and Hunted. Most PCs had at least 1 DNPC who appeared on an 11-or less (on 3d6), and probably 2 Hunteds, a powerful one at 8 or less, and a weaker one at 11 or less. For Superman, for instance, it would be DNPC: Lois Lane (11 or Less), Hunted by Lex Luthor (11 or Less), Hunted by Zod (8 or less). There was a near-100% chance that at least one of these things was going to trip for each PC. Now you have a team of 5 characters... and as a GM you have to find a way to build a scenario of whatever idea YOU have, while inserting two DNPCs from two different player characters, and somehow having 3 totally different, wildly unrelated, and perhaps even rival Hunteds show up. There is almost no way to do this without completely breaking whatever story you had planned.... or else taking 2-3 sessions just doing "Disadvantage stuff" before getting to the real scenario.

And it's not that you couldn't find a way to finagle this once... or twice. It's that it was going to happen EVERY. SINGLE. SCENARIO. Every one, if you are following Champions RAW. Now yes, the Hunted didn't have to show up and attack the heroes. It could be that Lex Luthor gives an interview in the paper and talks some smack about Clark Kent, and that's the Superman Hunted appearance for the week. But even if you did them like that, it would take an entire session to get through all of them for every PC. And it would distract the players completely from whatever the real scenario was.

Some GMs just went with it -- they would make the rolls and just build a scenario around what they rolled. But I never saw a coherent story worth remembering come out of those... and there is a reason why most of those folks only GMed a few times and then stopped. Because again, you can pull this off once, twice. But not consistently week in and week out. You just run out of things to have Lex Luthor do to Superman after a while. I mean after all, how many magazine interviews can he give talking smack about Clark Kent before it gets old?

In practice, as a GM, I did not randomly roll for Hunteds or DNPCs. I used the chance as a frequency -- so 11 or less means "the Hunted appears in 50% of all adventures." Then I would just keep track of how often it had happened an insert them at a convenient point. Maybe the hero went 4 straight adventures without hearing from Lex, and then we get a whole entire scenario about Lex. I also forbade any player from taking a 14 or less Disadvantage because I refused as a GM to make anything occur in more than 50% of adventures. I actually required pretty severe justification to allow 11 or less, and generally only allowed one 11 or less item out of all DNPCs and Hunteds per character.

It was still a lot... I'm not sure how I would handle it today. But the reality is I mostly ignored the rules on Hunteds and DNPCs -- these elements that the rules tell you are supposed to be mixed, as plot points, into the adventures -- so I could run a cool set of scenarios that actually worked narratively and built to a major climax twice (once at the end of year 1, and once at the end of year 2). None of that would have been possible if I'd spent every scenario on dealing with the characters' "background" baggage over and over.

You guys make some excellent points and thank you to everyone who has posted so far.

Firstly, I dont make my frustrations known or visible, especially when I dm because that discourages players from expressing frustrations and takes away from the game entirely. I'm checking in with her after every game to see where she's at and how she feels about it, she just wasn't expecting my game to be so serious. I told her what my play style is like and what the world is like and she thought it would be more like the viva la dirt league epic npc world -- more videogame "please help me find my sheep" or "go slay that dragon and I will bestow a title upon you". My world is more interactive sandbox where you start at the bottom and work your way up. There's people with families, a full system of holidays, a complex weave of government corruption, a new subsection of elements on the periodic table + laws of physics that encompasses and dictates the functionality of magic, a magical "yelp" like board for the best restaurants in the realm.... my point is that its open world and that there are good and bad parts to it. I have made this clear to all my players because some people like the "I am part of a guild and I get missions like in Fairy Tale" kind of style or a "I am an archeologist that goes dungeon diving" or something heavily RP based like being a spy for a foreign nation and earning their trust. I told them that my world does have all of these types of play styles, but they need to go and pursue them because I'm not the type of dm that immedietly places it on you. Whatever playstyle they as a party decide they want, I can give them but in my opinion, it is not my job to do it from the get-go and hold their hand. I made a very well rounded world so that I can be flexible as a dm and adjust the playstyle for the needs of the party.

Secondly, I do know that she needs time to adjust and learn and I'm trying to give her that. I just want to make sure she's actually having fun. So far, she says she is but she might not in the future because of her frustrations and I just want to be prepared for that and have solutions at the ready. I want her to play and be with the party but she needs to help me tie her to them. At some point, her current motivation wont be enough and I'm trying to encourage her to find, or think of, other reasons for her character to keep doing this.

Thirdly, she gave me a detailed backstory right from the beginning and I had to work with her to cut it down. The bard limitation is a heavy lore thing, it would take way too long for me to explain but it's fey related, there are artifacts involved, bloodline stuff. Honestly, if she said she's a bard that went to school/dropped out/never went and has lived her life reveling in pissing other bards off, I would have rolled with it. Thats more than enough for me to work with. She just wanted it all before the game started and wasn't happy when I vetoed it. Honestly, I don't need detailed backstories as much as I need an answer to one question: "Why are you doing this? Adventuring isn't easy or safe so why are you leaving home and risking yourself and your families (if you piss off the wrong cookie during your travels or something) to do this?" I have a player who said, "I'm part of a cult that tells me what to do for our leader." Thats it, no backstory or anything but they answered my question and it was enough for me. 

Thirdly, I don't hound her or pressure her or spam her about this. I've only talked to her about this on 3 occasions over 4 months; when we created her character and after the first 2 sessions (which were weeks apart). I didn't push when it happened, I simply asked her why her character is putting herself through all of this. She loves the roleplay and she likes the combat too (so long as she's not downed lol). Given the fact that she has expertise, she gets skill spotlight more often than the other players. But yes, she wanted more anime style (great description btw) play and for lore reasons, I can't give that to her without creating a brand new world. I know she wants to be a "main character" in a story because she told me when we discussed the game and the world, but I told her she needs to give me something to work with beyond "I want to have fun". I can give her festivals and friendly bard like competitions and all I can do is hope its enough.

Money isn't a motivator, she doesn't really care about helping the greater good or anything like that, she's just going on adventures for the shits of it. So unless she gets super invested in one of the other players arcs and pursues that, I really don't know how to keep her tied to the party. At some point, they're going to meddle with some "we are way in over our heads" kind of stuff and there is a very real chance her character would leave because she wouldn't really have personal reasons to stay. I hope she as a player would stay even if her first character cant but I'm worried that the lack of the party/campaign ties would at some point disinterest her from this game completely. 

Side note, I love the homebrew suggestion but I'm not throwing in homebrew to a player that doesn't know official content yet, much less which die is which. Its just too confusing. I do tweak rules all the time, nearly all dms do but she needs to understand basic rules first before we go wild with it. 

Lastly, I think patience and seeing how she grows as a player is the best move. She might not be motivated in character because she doesn't know how to step into those shoes yet. We'll see how everything plays out and hopefully she'll keep having fun.

I think to some degree you just have to let her play and maybe fail. You have done what you can. She says she is having fun right now. If she needs more motivation later, she can work on that, or maybe her character leaves the party or maybe she stops playing D&D. There is only so much you can do. The rest is up to her. And for many things in RPGs we just have to learn for ourselves, yes, the hard way.