That being said, in one game I have adv/disadv and another +2. We’ll see how it goes. My fear is that PC will focus on flanking above everything else, which while within my rules, is kind of lame.
That is the exact reason NOT to use any flanking rules at all. Make it actually more strategic for the players to gain advantage, rather than just moving around the creature.
We house rule that flanking = +1 bonus to hit. Most of my players don't care about it and are too busy running up the giant's back or trying to rip off a guy's arm and beat him with it, etc.
I could get behind a flat +1 (or even +2) to hit, and for that I probably wouldn't even require "flanking", just having an ally attacking. It isn't a massive bonus, and it still allows real advantage & disadvantage to work. It is a reasonable bonus which players would have the option of using tactically but it's also not enough of a bonus to make other options feel less attractive.
My problem with flanking is that it totally devalues all other mechanics that grant advantage.
My problem with not using it is that positioning in melee is one of the few strategic decisions melee classes get to make while just taking the attack action on every turn, as the casters get to whip out tons of utility and different options from their spell list.
I'm starting to think that in my next game I'm going to give flanking give a flat +1 (advantage is the equiv to a +5) and introduce a bunch of the optional combat rules like trip, shove, overrun, tumble, and climbing on larger creatures, and maybe doing something like giving all martial classes the grappler feat and improvised weapon proficiency as a baseline.
My problem with flanking is that it totally devalues all other mechanics that grant advantage.
My problem with not using it is that positioning in melee is one of the few strategic decisions melee classes get to make while just taking the attack action on every turn, as the casters get to whip out tons of utility and different options from their spell list.
I'm starting to think that in my next game I'm going to give flanking give a flat +1 (advantage is the equiv to a +5) and introduce a bunch of the optional combat rules like trip, shove, overrun, tumble, and climbing on larger creatures, and maybe doing something like giving all martial classes the grappler feat and improvised weapon proficiency as a baseline.
Agree....advantage is just so huge in this addition that giving it away via flanking creates a LOT of swing when it comes to damage/attacks.
I think adding a simple +1 might be a compromise as that is a pretty big boon for a bound accuracy system if you want to use it.
I like the idea of being able to use a weapon to trip/shove as well. PF2E lets you use a weapon bonus for the trip/grapple check if the weapon has the trait. Thus if you have a +2 trident and it has the Trip trait you would be able to add +2 to the ATH check to trip.
My problem with not using it is that positioning in melee is one of the few strategic decisions melee classes get to make while just taking the attack action on every turn, as the casters get to whip out tons of utility and different options from their spell list.
Positioning in melee can still be made tactical. If there is blocking terrain, or doorways, then getting into the right position can help the party whilst hindering the hordes of attacking critters.
My problem with not using it is that positioning in melee is one of the few strategic decisions melee classes get to make while just taking the attack action on every turn, as the casters get to whip out tons of utility and different options from their spell list.
Positioning in melee can still be made tactical. If there is blocking terrain, or doorways, then getting into the right position can help the party whilst hindering the hordes of attacking critters.
Yeah a PAM + Sentinel build can hold down a large area to protect squishies with the right placement.
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That is the exact reason NOT to use any flanking rules at all. Make it actually more strategic for the players to gain advantage, rather than just moving around the creature.
We house rule that flanking = +1 bonus to hit. Most of my players don't care about it and are too busy running up the giant's back or trying to rip off a guy's arm and beat him with it, etc.
I could get behind a flat +1 (or even +2) to hit, and for that I probably wouldn't even require "flanking", just having an ally attacking. It isn't a massive bonus, and it still allows real advantage & disadvantage to work. It is a reasonable bonus which players would have the option of using tactically but it's also not enough of a bonus to make other options feel less attractive.
My problem with flanking is that it totally devalues all other mechanics that grant advantage.
My problem with not using it is that positioning in melee is one of the few strategic decisions melee classes get to make while just taking the attack action on every turn, as the casters get to whip out tons of utility and different options from their spell list.
I'm starting to think that in my next game I'm going to give flanking give a flat +1 (advantage is the equiv to a +5) and introduce a bunch of the optional combat rules like trip, shove, overrun, tumble, and climbing on larger creatures, and maybe doing something like giving all martial classes the grappler feat and improvised weapon proficiency as a baseline.
Agree....advantage is just so huge in this addition that giving it away via flanking creates a LOT of swing when it comes to damage/attacks.
I think adding a simple +1 might be a compromise as that is a pretty big boon for a bound accuracy system if you want to use it.
I like the idea of being able to use a weapon to trip/shove as well. PF2E lets you use a weapon bonus for the trip/grapple check if the weapon has the trait. Thus if you have a +2 trident and it has the Trip trait you would be able to add +2 to the ATH check to trip.
Positioning in melee can still be made tactical. If there is blocking terrain, or doorways, then getting into the right position can help the party whilst hindering the hordes of attacking critters.
Yeah a PAM + Sentinel build can hold down a large area to protect squishies with the right placement.