Here is the rough Idea, I want to award my players Points that can add up and exchanged for feats. I don't NOT want to use EXP, this is intended as a supplement to Milestone leveling. My goals are:
1. Use these points to entice players to bite on quest hooks.
2. Reward the players for dramatic setbacks.
3. Allow them to flesh out a unique character even if players are using the same class.
What I'm thinking right now is that I won't allow feats at Feat/ASI levels (I might work something out for fighters) but I will allow them to "purchase" a feat as soon as they have enough "points". I think I will need to make an exhaustive tier list of feats with various prices (Dungeon Delver would be cheap whereas Great Weapon Master would be expensive). I may also allow them to turn them in for specific magic items they want. I'd put the item somewhere in the story or create a side mission to retrieve/loot it.
Examples of how I would use it:
During a fight some Goblins may retreat and flee, later a party member may discover that in the fight, a Goblin snatched their gold pouch. Since I didn't really give him a chance to do anything about it (I ruled he wouldn't have noticed) I award him 4 Feat points and the rest of the party 1.
A quest giver wants the party to deliver a package. As a DM I want to use this mission to hook them into a bigger plot. The players may not be intrested in delivering a package but know that doing so earns them a Feat Point, giving them the incentive to do so.
A player skips their turn in combat to jump in and save a drowning NPC. For the interesting character choice I reward them with a Feat point. It would take the place of Inspiration.
I need your help, tell me what you think. Is there a reason this is a bad idea? Are their certain Feats that should cost more or less that stand out? Should Feats like Linguist that add a ASI cost more? How should I scale this? How much should a cheap Feat be? How much should an Expensive one be?
The easiest option would be to assign Feats "Rarity" a la Magic Items. You can then give the players a meta-currency that they can use to buy the feats according the the magic item cost chart.
Feats/Racial Traits generally fall into the Uncommon-Rare range, so if a "Feat Point" is comparable to 100 gold, then you would need 1-5 for an Uncommon Feat and 5-50 for a Rare Feat. From here, you can adjust the exchange rate according to how often you expect to award Feat Points and how often you want your players to be able to buy feats.
Note: Feats do not require attunement or slots, so treat them as more valuable than a comparable magic item. Example, Dhampir's Spider Climb ability compared to Slippers of Spider Climbing.
For fighters, you could still give them the bonus ones (level 6,14, etc.) but not the standard ones at 4,8, 12. Then they still get the extras from their class feature.
My only fear is that if I don't do this right, the characters can become bloated with Feats. I may say they can only earn so many feats, but I don't know where to draw the line. 3 feats? 4? Perhaps after each feat, the cost of a new feat increases?
Doing it "right" basically turns into a normal Feat distribution. Anything less is under-powered, while anything more is over powered. Giving them early trivializes low level encounters, while giving them later causes players to lag for most of the campaign. The game is balanced for a particular progression, so any deviation from that presents challenges.
Magic items are controlled with attunement slots, so if you want to control Feats similarly, you could create "Feat vessels", like an attuned tattoo. However, that just causes the players to choose between feats and magic items.
In my opinion the only balance in the game is between players, you don't want one player being significantly more bad ass than another. Anything else you can just adjust. Add more enemies to the action economy or increase HP. A player can not be more powerful than you want them to be.
No, I'm worried about having so many feats that they become forgotten or overwhelming.
Ah, that's easier then. "Feats" break down into 3 major categories:
1) +2 ASI
2) Half-Feat (+1 ASI & feature)
3) Full Feat
ASI are easy to keep track of and have a built-in cap. Those won't be forgotten or overwhelming. Half-feats are a little more loose, but are buffered with an ASI, so they're relatively safe.
I'd make each category of "Feat" slightly more expensive, which will naturally bias players toward the more manageable options, and limit the number of complicated options a player can choose.
Say, if you give a player 60 Feat points over 20 levels, a 10/12/14 cost would lead to 6 ASI increases, 5 Half-Feats, or 4 Full-Feats, which is potentially more powerful than normal, but no less manageable.
I'm sorry I should have been clear, they only get +2 ASI the usual way. These points will only be for feats and "Half feats". But your points about the other categories stands, thank you!
In my opinion the only balance in the game is between players, you don't want one player being significantly more bad ass than another. Anything else you can just adjust. Add more enemies to the action economy or increase HP. A player can not be more powerful than you want them to be.
No, I'm worried about having so many feats that they become forgotten or overwhelming.
I don't have a clue what your DM experience is, but you are walking into a dangerous area. Adding a Feat is the equivalent of adding an ASI. You know that. I have played in a campaign that add a Feat at 0, 4 and 8 levels. I have played in a campaign where the DM allowed a 37, not 27, point buy. It has lead to vastly OP chars that the DM naturally has to adjust to, but the resultant adjustments led either to very boring encounters as the DM underestimated the increase in power of the chars, or lots of dead chars as he overestimated the increase in power.
Once you start down this road, your life as a DM gets a lot harder.
Well I'm not sure I broke the system or allowed players to make anything more powerful than they normally could but I changed the character creation process. Effectively I asked players to start with the standard array for ability scores, then select race (or whatever term you want for it) to represent what they were born as, background to represent what you did prior to your adventuring career and then they could choose a handful of feats that fit in with those two things to reflect abilities they learned whilst growing up, then they got their character levels. All classes got feats at level 4, 8, 12, 16 and 19 (so fighters got a little nerf) and when you got a feat at those levels you could only choose a racial feat from Xanathars guide or an ASI. However, all other feats I gave some prerequisite abilities to and when you met those prerequisites you got that feat if you wanted it and could justfiy why you had it.
For instance, if you got a Wisdom score of 13+ it would allow a character to use Magic Initiate Cleric. If they had the Acolyte background they could justify starting of with it as part of their training to enter the clergy regardless of whether they actually took any levels of cleric. Like wise during the normal course of play if they had played a friendship with a npc cleric or party cleric they could use an ASI to raise their wisdom to 13 and then say the magic initiate feat is gained as they have been taught some minor prayers from the cleric.
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Just to throw a couple incredibly complicated suggestions out there (in all instances, prerequisites are still upheld):
One way is to treat them as "enhanced proficiencies" that they "learn" over time. Split the feats into categories and as a character does something impressive associated with a particular category, they get a currency to put towards a feat in that category. Once they accrue enough points, they can unlock a feat.
Another way is to treat each individual perk of a feat as a "training session" that costs gold and time (akin to Downtime Activities as described in Xanathar's Guide to Everything). Once they complete all the training associated with a feat, they unlock that feat (but not before). The limiting factor is finding someone with the time or interest in training the individual (remembering that feats are almost always associated with adventurers, and not necessarily a weapons master or scholar).
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Here is the rough Idea, I want to award my players Points that can add up and exchanged for feats. I don't NOT want to use EXP, this is intended as a supplement to Milestone leveling. My goals are:
1. Use these points to entice players to bite on quest hooks.
2. Reward the players for dramatic setbacks.
3. Allow them to flesh out a unique character even if players are using the same class.
What I'm thinking right now is that I won't allow feats at Feat/ASI levels (I might work something out for fighters) but I will allow them to "purchase" a feat as soon as they have enough "points". I think I will need to make an exhaustive tier list of feats with various prices (Dungeon Delver would be cheap whereas Great Weapon Master would be expensive). I may also allow them to turn them in for specific magic items they want. I'd put the item somewhere in the story or create a side mission to retrieve/loot it.
Examples of how I would use it:
During a fight some Goblins may retreat and flee, later a party member may discover that in the fight, a Goblin snatched their gold pouch. Since I didn't really give him a chance to do anything about it (I ruled he wouldn't have noticed) I award him 4 Feat points and the rest of the party 1.
A quest giver wants the party to deliver a package. As a DM I want to use this mission to hook them into a bigger plot. The players may not be intrested in delivering a package but know that doing so earns them a Feat Point, giving them the incentive to do so.
A player skips their turn in combat to jump in and save a drowning NPC. For the interesting character choice I reward them with a Feat point. It would take the place of Inspiration.
I need your help, tell me what you think. Is there a reason this is a bad idea? Are their certain Feats that should cost more or less that stand out? Should Feats like Linguist that add a ASI cost more? How should I scale this? How much should a cheap Feat be? How much should an Expensive one be?
The easiest option would be to assign Feats "Rarity" a la Magic Items. You can then give the players a meta-currency that they can use to buy the feats according the the magic item cost chart.
Feats/Racial Traits generally fall into the Uncommon-Rare range, so if a "Feat Point" is comparable to 100 gold, then you would need 1-5 for an Uncommon Feat and 5-50 for a Rare Feat. From here, you can adjust the exchange rate according to how often you expect to award Feat Points and how often you want your players to be able to buy feats.
Note: Feats do not require attunement or slots, so treat them as more valuable than a comparable magic item. Example, Dhampir's Spider Climb ability compared to Slippers of Spider Climbing.
Already very helpful thank you!
For fighters, you could still give them the bonus ones (level 6,14, etc.) but not the standard ones at 4,8, 12. Then they still get the extras from their class feature.
My only fear is that if I don't do this right, the characters can become bloated with Feats. I may say they can only earn so many feats, but I don't know where to draw the line. 3 feats? 4? Perhaps after each feat, the cost of a new feat increases?
Doing it "right" basically turns into a normal Feat distribution. Anything less is under-powered, while anything more is over powered. Giving them early trivializes low level encounters, while giving them later causes players to lag for most of the campaign. The game is balanced for a particular progression, so any deviation from that presents challenges.
Magic items are controlled with attunement slots, so if you want to control Feats similarly, you could create "Feat vessels", like an attuned tattoo. However, that just causes the players to choose between feats and magic items.
In my opinion the only balance in the game is between players, you don't want one player being significantly more bad ass than another. Anything else you can just adjust. Add more enemies to the action economy or increase HP. A player can not be more powerful than you want them to be.
No, I'm worried about having so many feats that they become forgotten or overwhelming.
Ah, that's easier then. "Feats" break down into 3 major categories:
1) +2 ASI
2) Half-Feat (+1 ASI & feature)
3) Full Feat
ASI are easy to keep track of and have a built-in cap. Those won't be forgotten or overwhelming. Half-feats are a little more loose, but are buffered with an ASI, so they're relatively safe.
I'd make each category of "Feat" slightly more expensive, which will naturally bias players toward the more manageable options, and limit the number of complicated options a player can choose.
Say, if you give a player 60 Feat points over 20 levels, a 10/12/14 cost would lead to 6 ASI increases, 5 Half-Feats, or 4 Full-Feats, which is potentially more powerful than normal, but no less manageable.
I'm sorry I should have been clear, they only get +2 ASI the usual way. These points will only be for feats and "Half feats". But your points about the other categories stands, thank you!
I don't have a clue what your DM experience is, but you are walking into a dangerous area. Adding a Feat is the equivalent of adding an ASI. You know that. I have played in a campaign that add a Feat at 0, 4 and 8 levels. I have played in a campaign where the DM allowed a 37, not 27, point buy. It has lead to vastly OP chars that the DM naturally has to adjust to, but the resultant adjustments led either to very boring encounters as the DM underestimated the increase in power of the chars, or lots of dead chars as he overestimated the increase in power.
Once you start down this road, your life as a DM gets a lot harder.
Well I'm not sure I broke the system or allowed players to make anything more powerful than they normally could but I changed the character creation process. Effectively I asked players to start with the standard array for ability scores, then select race (or whatever term you want for it) to represent what they were born as, background to represent what you did prior to your adventuring career and then they could choose a handful of feats that fit in with those two things to reflect abilities they learned whilst growing up, then they got their character levels. All classes got feats at level 4, 8, 12, 16 and 19 (so fighters got a little nerf) and when you got a feat at those levels you could only choose a racial feat from Xanathars guide or an ASI. However, all other feats I gave some prerequisite abilities to and when you met those prerequisites you got that feat if you wanted it and could justfiy why you had it.
For instance, if you got a Wisdom score of 13+ it would allow a character to use Magic Initiate Cleric. If they had the Acolyte background they could justify starting of with it as part of their training to enter the clergy regardless of whether they actually took any levels of cleric. Like wise during the normal course of play if they had played a friendship with a npc cleric or party cleric they could use an ASI to raise their wisdom to 13 and then say the magic initiate feat is gained as they have been taught some minor prayers from the cleric.
You could make feats become exponentially more expensive as they are bought.
for instance first feat is 2 feat points, the second feat bought you add 5 to the cost, the 3rd feat bought you add 15.
this means that players can get a feat early, but won’t become bloated.
Just to throw a couple incredibly complicated suggestions out there (in all instances, prerequisites are still upheld):
One way is to treat them as "enhanced proficiencies" that they "learn" over time. Split the feats into categories and as a character does something impressive associated with a particular category, they get a currency to put towards a feat in that category. Once they accrue enough points, they can unlock a feat.
Another way is to treat each individual perk of a feat as a "training session" that costs gold and time (akin to Downtime Activities as described in Xanathar's Guide to Everything). Once they complete all the training associated with a feat, they unlock that feat (but not before). The limiting factor is finding someone with the time or interest in training the individual (remembering that feats are almost always associated with adventurers, and not necessarily a weapons master or scholar).