In one of my next sessions, I have a high degree of confidence that some or all of the party will be captured (who knows how it actually plays out). It's been awhile since I've run an "escape capture" session, so I am curious as to what some main points to keep in mind are. Here are the details, and some of what I am considering.
Party of 4 level 5 characters well outfitted with magic items (weapons, armor, miscelaneous). They are currently three rounds in to a large battle and both frontliners are surrounded and low on health. The action economy is currently skewed against the party. The two ranged folks are at reasonable range and would have a good chance to flee if they so choose. Since I can't really speak to what those uncaptured would do (it's a blank space that the players will fill in), here are some of my notes so far:
If some of the party are captured, the bad guys will offer to spare their lives if the others surrender. This causes nice drama and tension at the table.
As if the party needed any more motivation, all the interactions can be used to either create nemeses and/or a desire for vengeance on behalf of the party. I dont think I've done a great job of instilling a passion for the area that the characters are defending against this threat (as in why should we care about helping this region), but this could make the stakes personal for them.
For those captured, fairly early I will make it obvious that there will be opportunities to escape/change their fate.
For those captured, I will let a few situations develop where they have a chance to escape. That portion becomes narrative and strategic than just hack and slash.
For those captured, the bad guys may take a magic item or two from them (ie a favored weapon).
Given the bad guys will have just "won" this battle, they may be a bit overconfident, so will send those captured as a tribute/offering/sacrifice to another bad faction. This travel time gives not only those captured a chance to escape, but it would provide a chance for those uncaptured to intervene
During capture, I can set up a few more potential threads by letting those captured overhear some of the bad guys plans. This can turn "defeat" into intelligence gathering.
What are some other elements I may be missing/not considering?
Thanks!
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
For those captured, the bad guys may take a magic item or two from them (ie a favored weapon).
Why wouldn't the bad guys take everything off of them? The alternative is to leave PC heroes with access to weapons that could be used to escape. A smart bad guy would not do that.
If my party gets captured by an intelligent enemy, first thing the bad guy would do is strip them of any weapons, armor, magic items, bind hands and gag mouths to prevent verbal and somatic spell components, and the like.
How they get out of capture while bound, gagged, and without any magic items is... er... not an easy challenge for them. But I'm sure they'll think of something. Players often do.
You can usually help them out with things like... the villains don't notice a magic ring or some small magic item that might be of consequence... or maybe don't recognize it for a magic item.
Why wouldn't the bad guys take everything off of them? The alternative is to leave PC heroes with access to weapons that could be used to escape. A smart bad guy would not do that.
The bad guys will be sending the rest of the gear/loot from the party as offering/tribute to gain standing with another enemy faction. Their gear will be nearby and the party will be bound/gagged etc. I'm not sure who they will escape, but the players will think of something.
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
An option used in a campaign i was reading about was the players were captured, stripped of gear, bound and carted off. During the trip, they encountered another group of baddies and a battle broke out, allowing a chance for escape. In this scenario, there was a Monk, so once his hands were free, he was almost as dangerous as when he had all his gear on, making the fight for freedom a little more balanced.
Caravan could also simply fall victim to a rampaging Dragon or some such huge threat, creating chaos and allowing them to escape (with the bag their gear was all stowed in)
Our group recently had our Fighter grabbed and held aloft by a big foe (Fighter was down to about 12HP at the time) Big Baddie said "Flee now and leave your dog and I will let you live!" We declined, opened up (risking the Fighter's life) and were victorious. DM told us a better roll by baddie would have left our Fighter to reroll a new character, lol.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Out of the Abyss opens with a prison escape, I have also run situations similar to this in the past (I have started adventures this way a few times in various systems)
The 2 key things to remember are never make a player feel they have no options at the table and are being pushed into a cul de sac, if capture is an option let your players know that the story can continue and if they get captured make sure they still feel like they are part of the story.
I would say take all their equipment off of them, a great opportunity for a fast thinking player to tell you they try and hide or palm something small that might help in future (up to you how much detail you want them to go into, I once had a female rogue go into a bit too much detail about where she hid her thieves tools when she knew she might be about to be caught and thrown in prison, I set a suitably high DC when she was searched). But make sure in your head you either have a way of getting that equipment back when they escape, or a way for them to track down who has taken it on. It is a great mechanic I have made use of to get a party where I want to them to go, just have someone steal a favourite magic item. Depending how long you want the imprisoned situation to last put them in a situation with an interesting NPC or 2 or 3 who may or may not attempt to betray them depending on circumstances.
If only a few of the party are being captured I have run this as separate sessions, much like when merry and pippin get caught in lord of the rings I will have the players turn up to there own mini sessions with those chasing going through a number of adventures to find info and find the captured members and the imprisoned, trusting their friends are going to come for them, working to stay alive, leave clues if on the move, maybe try to escape etc.
I would say have a loose idea of what the goals and aims are of the captors, how much will they work to re capture of the players escape etc and then give the players a sandbox to play in and see what they do. Most of my players fav computer games, or movies involve escaping a situation with nothing but there wits and what they can find around them and fashion.
I would not assume that PCs will be captured until it actually happens; while it can happen, it's not something you can predictably accomplish without being very heavy-handed.
Normally, when I have monsters capture the PCs, it's because they think the PCs have some value alive. Selling them into slavery in underground gladiatorial fighting arenas is a classic.
I didn't design this encounter with capture in mind. Given the current state of the encounter however, I wanted to be prepared for some contingencies, in this case, if they get captured (as opposed to a probable TPK). If they are captured, my intent is to have it last for a session or less (2.5 hrs).
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
My biggest advice around capture, is to be careful. I no longer run capture scenarios, because - despite my best efforts - they usually never play out in a satisfactory way, or someone ends up miserable. Now that might just be because I'm a terrible DM when it comes to capture scenarios - but having done this for a long time, there seems to be a universal truth that most players fall into:
Players do not like being captured. They will avoid capture at all costs. Including fighting to the death.
I've had experienced players, that have also been experienced DMs who should technically know better, fall into this situation. Where the DM throws an overwhelming encounter at the party, expecting them to realise they're outmatched and either run away, or if they can't run away, surrender. Only the party doesn't surrender, and the DM either has to pull some railroad shenanigans, or TPK the party.
I think it's because it's the ultimate example of taking away player agency. Even if it's for the plot, and you have loads of great story ideas that will lead to some fantastic moments later on.
As is this diary he did when he essentially railroaded the players into being captured... and how it all went wrong.
I know you've said the capture scenario is just a contingency, but be prepared for your players to do absolutely everything to avoid it. They'll come up with loads of ideas - and you'll see some very creative play... so don't force them to surrender, because they'll just feel like you've hand-waved away their agency.
My biggest advice around capture, is to be careful. I no longer run capture scenarios, because - despite my best efforts - they usually never play out in a satisfactory way, or someone ends up miserable. Now that might just be because I'm a terrible DM when it comes to capture scenarios - but having done this for a long time, there seems to be a universal truth that most players fall into:
Players do not like being captured. They will avoid capture at all costs. Including fighting to the death.
I've had experienced players, that have also been experienced DMs who should technically know better, fall into this situation. Where the DM throws an overwhelming encounter at the party, expecting them to realise they're outmatched and either run away, or if they can't run away, surrender. Only the party doesn't surrender, and the DM either has to pull some railroad shenanigans, or TPK the party.
I think it's because it's the ultimate example of taking away player agency. Even if it's for the plot, and you have loads of great story ideas that will lead to some fantastic moments later on.
As is this diary he did when he essentially railroaded the players into being captured... and how it all went wrong.
I know you've said the capture scenario is just a contingency, but be prepared for your players to do absolutely everything to avoid it. They'll come up with loads of ideas - and you'll see some very creative play... so don't force them to surrender, because they'll just feel like you've hand-waved away their agency.
Good luck!
I will say I think I have been very lucky over the years in that most parties I have DMd have understood that not all combat scenarios are meant to be fought to the death. But the thing I hinted at but didn’t explicitly say in my answer above was that every time I have run a capture scenario in my campaign it is something that was discussed in session 0. Out of the Abyss starts with the players imprisoned and I have started parties this way in the past, but I didn’t drip that on them in session 1, I explained to them in session 0 this is how I am planning on starting things without giving specific details, or I made it clear in session 0 that
A) some encounters I throw at you will be way above your pay grade and they are designed to be thought through/run from at that moment in time. And
B) I may at some point put you in said impossible situation and you decide surrender is an option, that is perfectly fine. I may also at some point capture you, how would you feel about that?
Twice I have drugged a party before capturing them, I made sure that was enough foreshadowing and plenty of opportunities for them to work out what was happening so they didn’t feel forced. I have also had a party allow themselves to be arrested after being framed for a crime they didn’t commit. That group then escaped and spent most of the campaign being soldiers of fortune with forces on their tail, moving from town to town, I had no intention of them becoming the A team they just did that all on their own lol. But no the serious point is that all the things I suggested in the post above are based off of the presumption that the players are fully engaged and happy to run this type of encounter over a period of several sessions. If they are not then the post quoted above is the important one to keep in mind.
I will also say the place you players are in now, if this is not meant to be a TPK situation you need to give your players a number of outs so they don’t feel forced into a narrative situation that you think is what they should do.
Yes, Out of the Abyss is different, as it doesn't actually take away any agency - the players aren't forced into a capture scenario, because they start there. They actually have a lot of agency in figuring out how to escape. That's the plot.
Trying to recreate that plot hook when the player's don't start captured, means having to capture them. And handling that scenario is where the danger is.
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Howdy everyone,
In one of my next sessions, I have a high degree of confidence that some or all of the party will be captured (who knows how it actually plays out). It's been awhile since I've run an "escape capture" session, so I am curious as to what some main points to keep in mind are. Here are the details, and some of what I am considering.
Party of 4 level 5 characters well outfitted with magic items (weapons, armor, miscelaneous). They are currently three rounds in to a large battle and both frontliners are surrounded and low on health. The action economy is currently skewed against the party. The two ranged folks are at reasonable range and would have a good chance to flee if they so choose. Since I can't really speak to what those uncaptured would do (it's a blank space that the players will fill in), here are some of my notes so far:
What are some other elements I may be missing/not considering?
Thanks!
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Why wouldn't the bad guys take everything off of them? The alternative is to leave PC heroes with access to weapons that could be used to escape. A smart bad guy would not do that.
If my party gets captured by an intelligent enemy, first thing the bad guy would do is strip them of any weapons, armor, magic items, bind hands and gag mouths to prevent verbal and somatic spell components, and the like.
How they get out of capture while bound, gagged, and without any magic items is... er... not an easy challenge for them. But I'm sure they'll think of something. Players often do.
You can usually help them out with things like... the villains don't notice a magic ring or some small magic item that might be of consequence... or maybe don't recognize it for a magic item.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
The bad guys will be sending the rest of the gear/loot from the party as offering/tribute to gain standing with another enemy faction. Their gear will be nearby and the party will be bound/gagged etc. I'm not sure who they will escape, but the players will think of something.
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
An option used in a campaign i was reading about was the players were captured, stripped of gear, bound and carted off. During the trip, they encountered another group of baddies and a battle broke out, allowing a chance for escape. In this scenario, there was a Monk, so once his hands were free, he was almost as dangerous as when he had all his gear on, making the fight for freedom a little more balanced.
Caravan could also simply fall victim to a rampaging Dragon or some such huge threat, creating chaos and allowing them to escape (with the bag their gear was all stowed in)
Our group recently had our Fighter grabbed and held aloft by a big foe (Fighter was down to about 12HP at the time) Big Baddie said "Flee now and leave your dog and I will let you live!" We declined, opened up (risking the Fighter's life) and were victorious. DM told us a better roll by baddie would have left our Fighter to reroll a new character, lol.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Out of the Abyss opens with a prison escape, I have also run situations similar to this in the past (I have started adventures this way a few times in various systems)
The 2 key things to remember are never make a player feel they have no options at the table and are being pushed into a cul de sac, if capture is an option let your players know that the story can continue and if they get captured make sure they still feel like they are part of the story.
I would say take all their equipment off of them, a great opportunity for a fast thinking player to tell you they try and hide or palm something small that might help in future (up to you how much detail you want them to go into, I once had a female rogue go into a bit too much detail about where she hid her thieves tools when she knew she might be about to be caught and thrown in prison, I set a suitably high DC when she was searched). But make sure in your head you either have a way of getting that equipment back when they escape, or a way for them to track down who has taken it on. It is a great mechanic I have made use of to get a party where I want to them to go, just have someone steal a favourite magic item. Depending how long you want the imprisoned situation to last put them in a situation with an interesting NPC or 2 or 3 who may or may not attempt to betray them depending on circumstances.
If only a few of the party are being captured I have run this as separate sessions, much like when merry and pippin get caught in lord of the rings I will have the players turn up to there own mini sessions with those chasing going through a number of adventures to find info and find the captured members and the imprisoned, trusting their friends are going to come for them, working to stay alive, leave clues if on the move, maybe try to escape etc.
I would say have a loose idea of what the goals and aims are of the captors, how much will they work to re capture of the players escape etc and then give the players a sandbox to play in and see what they do. Most of my players fav computer games, or movies involve escaping a situation with nothing but there wits and what they can find around them and fashion.
I would not assume that PCs will be captured until it actually happens; while it can happen, it's not something you can predictably accomplish without being very heavy-handed.
Normally, when I have monsters capture the PCs, it's because they think the PCs have some value alive. Selling them into slavery in underground gladiatorial fighting arenas is a classic.
I didn't design this encounter with capture in mind. Given the current state of the encounter however, I wanted to be prepared for some contingencies, in this case, if they get captured (as opposed to a probable TPK). If they are captured, my intent is to have it last for a session or less (2.5 hrs).
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
My biggest advice around capture, is to be careful. I no longer run capture scenarios, because - despite my best efforts - they usually never play out in a satisfactory way, or someone ends up miserable. Now that might just be because I'm a terrible DM when it comes to capture scenarios - but having done this for a long time, there seems to be a universal truth that most players fall into:
Players do not like being captured. They will avoid capture at all costs. Including fighting to the death.
I've had experienced players, that have also been experienced DMs who should technically know better, fall into this situation. Where the DM throws an overwhelming encounter at the party, expecting them to realise they're outmatched and either run away, or if they can't run away, surrender. Only the party doesn't surrender, and the DM either has to pull some railroad shenanigans, or TPK the party.
I think it's because it's the ultimate example of taking away player agency. Even if it's for the plot, and you have loads of great story ideas that will lead to some fantastic moments later on.
Matt Colville did a good video on this, actually. That's well worth a watch.
As is this diary he did when he essentially railroaded the players into being captured... and how it all went wrong.
I know you've said the capture scenario is just a contingency, but be prepared for your players to do absolutely everything to avoid it. They'll come up with loads of ideas - and you'll see some very creative play... so don't force them to surrender, because they'll just feel like you've hand-waved away their agency.
Good luck!
I will say I think I have been very lucky over the years in that most parties I have DMd have understood that not all combat scenarios are meant to be fought to the death. But the thing I hinted at but didn’t explicitly say in my answer above was that every time I have run a capture scenario in my campaign it is something that was discussed in session 0. Out of the Abyss starts with the players imprisoned and I have started parties this way in the past, but I didn’t drip that on them in session 1, I explained to them in session 0 this is how I am planning on starting things without giving specific details, or I made it clear in session 0 that
A) some encounters I throw at you will be way above your pay grade and they are designed to be thought through/run from at that moment in time. And
B) I may at some point put you in said impossible situation and you decide surrender is an option, that is perfectly fine. I may also at some point capture you, how would you feel about that?
Twice I have drugged a party before capturing them, I made sure that was enough foreshadowing and plenty of opportunities for them to work out what was happening so they didn’t feel forced. I have also had a party allow themselves to be arrested after being framed for a crime they didn’t commit. That group then escaped and spent most of the campaign being soldiers of fortune with forces on their tail, moving from town to town, I had no intention of them becoming the A team they just did that all on their own lol. But no the serious point is that all the things I suggested in the post above are based off of the presumption that the players are fully engaged and happy to run this type of encounter over a period of several sessions. If they are not then the post quoted above is the important one to keep in mind.
I will also say the place you players are in now, if this is not meant to be a TPK situation you need to give your players a number of outs so they don’t feel forced into a narrative situation that you think is what they should do.
Yes, Out of the Abyss is different, as it doesn't actually take away any agency - the players aren't forced into a capture scenario, because they start there. They actually have a lot of agency in figuring out how to escape. That's the plot.
Trying to recreate that plot hook when the player's don't start captured, means having to capture them. And handling that scenario is where the danger is.