Hello! So i was working around with theme of devil running from hell because of boredom but at cost of most of his power. I was thinking multiclass of bard/sorc and warlock and getting "free" warlock features or levels thru making deals with npcs, of course deals based of own weak power not like "almighty" contracts giving immortality to somoene for their soul more like "i can help you with that but.... what you gonna give me for it? Does this desire is worth your soul?" I was even thinking about shadow Sorcerer who gets free stuff from necromancy school for every successful deal but it seems even harder to balance..... so yea i im looking for ideas that i can talk about with DM as we have really hard time to balance stuff and we both are all around for idea of PC but we scared of being mid campaing and balancing whole encounters around one PC instead of whole team
First thing I would say is, do not be afraid to rebalance the mid game. There is nothing wrong with that, have fun, do not get hung up on being locked to something...for no real reason than...butt hurt community feedback?
I made the below Hidden Devil with a similar idea in mind but stopped...to much on the go...
I would say you idea is mainly based upon roleplaying, which is cool concept. I think if you and your DM come up with basic and level appropriate spell lists you can attain through contracts, it should remain balanced. Whatever spells you choose, just make sure you gain them at the appropriate levels and if you do get one earlier than another caster class would, make sure it is only slightly before, not like chain lightning at level 3!
Back in the late 80's, for Wizards we used to roleplay that you did not auto get your spells, you had to find them or learn them...much like Caleb from Critical Role. When we did that, we did not limit what and when you could find/learn it. Your concept is sort of like that, as long as your DM keeps it challenging for you, why not learn whatever you can "trick" people into?
Your Charisma score increases by 2, and your Constitution score increases by 1.
Languages
You can speak, read, and write Common, Infernal and Abyssal.
Age
Devil's are seemingly immortal to common people. When a Devil dies outside of the 9 Hells of Baator, it will turn over into a slimy substance that is mildly poisonous, but not lethally so (this will happen in about three to nine minutes). Overtime it will be fully recovered and in the form it was killed in and can leave the 9 Hells again. Note: A devil that dies in the 9 Hells of Baator is truly dead.
Alignment
Devils were vicious creatures, with extreme vindictiveness, with the complete lack of ability to accept their mistakes. Instinctually looking for others to blame, and with an uncanny drive to exact vengeance against whomever they hold responsible their actions, can seem chaotic to others, but it really is a lawful code. Devils hate being the target of misery themselves, they are often the martyrs of their own tales of woe. Lawful Evil is the common alignment for Devils, but they can vary from time-to-time.
Size
Devils can range in size and appearance and can take many forms to fool those around them. By default your size is Medium, but due to your nature you count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Speed
Your base walking speed is 30 feet. Due to your Devilish nature your burrowing is 10 feet and your climbing is equal to your walking speed at 30 feet.
Devil's Hidden Form
Devils have many innate abilities in their true form and Devils often need to know how to communicate and infiltrate all types of societies. Devils will hide their form and not use their true form's abilities, until uncovered. The below abilities are what they still gain benefits from while in there illusionary forms. The goal behind this behavior is the fulfillment of the Devil's own desires, and Devils will almost never willingly reveal what they are. In their non-devil form have the below abilities:
Your Devil nature grants immunity to fire and from being charmed. You also roll with advantage against fear magic or being frightened.
Devils have the innate ability to cast Tongues as a cantrip on themselves. This is cast as a bonus action.
Devils have the innate ability to change forms at will. As an action Devils can cast illusion on themselves for an unlimited amount of times.
Thanks, it gives me clearer idea on how to make PC more balanced, i was thinking about Bard having free spellslots(warlock type) or eldritch invocations as "addition" for making a deals, fire resistance/immunity and radiant damage vulnerability as part of "ancestry" i was thinking about something similar to doppelganger ability with "true" form being something horror like, what do ya think about this ideas? Maybe it can help with your creation as well :)
I figured something out..I made a subclass for Blood Hunter, using the Lycan as the base. I did this so I could learn how they made the Hybrid system. It works great, basically you can use that system to make two forms and toggle them as required. If you use that system/way of making a hybrid, really on any subclass you can make a toggle.
I think I have an idea for adding any of the spells you want, it is sort of a flaw I discovered in the creation system when making my Way of the Psi Ki monk.
I will repost here after some testing. Let me play with a couple things, I got some ideas.
Ok, so I played around with a few things that will work, but all require making a custom subclass.
So now my main question is, what do you think you are going to do, make a custom subclass, and use existing races, or make a subclass and custom race too?
Well i dont think making custom class and race would be a big problem. Things can be adjusted with backstory as well Hit me with what ya got friend ^_^
So first thing is you can copy over the subclass for the Blood Hunter Order of the Lycan...just to look at can copy how they did the transformation feature. Took me a little bit to learn, but it is pretty slick. That is where I would make your Devil stats and abilities come time, and you can put it on any class you want to, does not have to be Blood Hunter.
There is a easy way to make yourself a ability to choose whatever spell you want in the game. So let's say you choose Sorcerer, which gives you two level 1 feature slots to change, one can be for your transformation features, and the other can be for a spell contract or steeling ability. For the spell contract feature, what you can do is add 6, 10, 12 or as may spells as you want, but when you add them, only adjust all the stats stuff to your liking...leave the spell blank. What this does when you go to the character builder, it lets you choose any spell in the game in the character builder to fill those slots. So from a roleplay perspective, as you go around making contacts or whatever, collecting spells, you can just go into the character builder when you get a spell, find it and then add it into one of the empty slots. You can play with this and see how it works.
There is one more thing you can do, when you make the subclass, you can add spell lists from all the main caster classes. It is a little annoying, because you will see doubled and tripled spells in your spell selection area. It is a little nicer, because you can do it from your character sheet. So from a roleplay perspective, you would select no cantrips or spells when you make your character. Then as you make contracts and gather spells, you can add the spells right in the character sheet. When you pull up the area that allows you to add spell, you will see all the spell lists from all classes, thus you now have access to all spells in the game again. Then again, you just roleplay with your DM what you find and successfully accumulate.
Not sure if the above makes sense, but I could show live, I tend to steam games to one to five people on tuesdays and wednesdays 7pm PST time (Colleptic on Twitch). So without much interruption I could take a moment to show you what I mean live.
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Hello! So i was working around with theme of devil running from hell because of boredom but at cost of most of his power. I was thinking multiclass of bard/sorc and warlock and getting "free" warlock features or levels thru making deals with npcs, of course deals based of own weak power not like "almighty" contracts giving immortality to somoene for their soul more like "i can help you with that but.... what you gonna give me for it? Does this desire is worth your soul?" I was even thinking about shadow Sorcerer who gets free stuff from necromancy school for every successful deal but it seems even harder to balance..... so yea i im looking for ideas that i can talk about with DM as we have really hard time to balance stuff and we both are all around for idea of PC but we scared of being mid campaing and balancing whole encounters around one PC instead of whole team
So dear community your ideas ? :)
First thing I would say is, do not be afraid to rebalance the mid game. There is nothing wrong with that, have fun, do not get hung up on being locked to something...for no real reason than...butt hurt community feedback?
I made the below Hidden Devil with a similar idea in mind but stopped...to much on the go...
I would say you idea is mainly based upon roleplaying, which is cool concept. I think if you and your DM come up with basic and level appropriate spell lists you can attain through contracts, it should remain balanced. Whatever spells you choose, just make sure you gain them at the appropriate levels and if you do get one earlier than another caster class would, make sure it is only slightly before, not like chain lightning at level 3!
Back in the late 80's, for Wizards we used to roleplay that you did not auto get your spells, you had to find them or learn them...much like Caleb from Critical Role. When we did that, we did not limit what and when you could find/learn it. Your concept is sort of like that, as long as your DM keeps it challenging for you, why not learn whatever you can "trick" people into?
TBD - A Devil Race Made for a Upcoming Character.
Hidden Devil Traits
A Devil Race Made for a Upcoming Character.Ability Score Increase
Your Charisma score increases by 2, and your Constitution score increases by 1.
Languages
You can speak, read, and write Common, Infernal and Abyssal.
Age
Devil's are seemingly immortal to common people. When a Devil dies outside of the 9 Hells of Baator, it will turn over into a slimy substance that is mildly poisonous, but not lethally so (this will happen in about three to nine minutes). Overtime it will be fully recovered and in the form it was killed in and can leave the 9 Hells again. Note: A devil that dies in the 9 Hells of Baator is truly dead.
Alignment
Devils were vicious creatures, with extreme vindictiveness, with the complete lack of ability to accept their mistakes. Instinctually looking for others to blame, and with an uncanny drive to exact vengeance against whomever they hold responsible their actions, can seem chaotic to others, but it really is a lawful code. Devils hate being the target of misery themselves, they are often the martyrs of their own tales of woe. Lawful Evil is the common alignment for Devils, but they can vary from time-to-time.
Size
Devils can range in size and appearance and can take many forms to fool those around them. By default your size is Medium, but due to your nature you count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Speed
Your base walking speed is 30 feet. Due to your Devilish nature your burrowing is 10 feet and your climbing is equal to your walking speed at 30 feet.
Devil's Hidden Form
Devils have many innate abilities in their true form and Devils often need to know how to communicate and infiltrate all types of societies. Devils will hide their form and not use their true form's abilities, until uncovered. The below abilities are what they still gain benefits from while in there illusionary forms. The goal behind this behavior is the fulfillment of the Devil's own desires, and Devils will almost never willingly reveal what they are. In their non-devil form have the below abilities:
Thanks, it gives me clearer idea on how to make PC more balanced, i was thinking about Bard having free spellslots(warlock type) or eldritch invocations as "addition" for making a deals, fire resistance/immunity and radiant damage vulnerability as part of "ancestry" i was thinking about something similar to doppelganger ability with "true" form being something horror like, what do ya think about this ideas? Maybe it can help with your creation as well :)
I figured something out..I made a subclass for Blood Hunter, using the Lycan as the base. I did this so I could learn how they made the Hybrid system. It works great, basically you can use that system to make two forms and toggle them as required. If you use that system/way of making a hybrid, really on any subclass you can make a toggle.
I think I have an idea for adding any of the spells you want, it is sort of a flaw I discovered in the creation system when making my Way of the Psi Ki monk.
I will repost here after some testing. Let me play with a couple things, I got some ideas.
Ok, so I played around with a few things that will work, but all require making a custom subclass.
So now my main question is, what do you think you are going to do, make a custom subclass, and use existing races, or make a subclass and custom race too?
Well i dont think making custom class and race would be a big problem. Things can be adjusted with backstory as well
Hit me with what ya got friend ^_^
So first thing is you can copy over the subclass for the Blood Hunter Order of the Lycan...just to look at can copy how they did the transformation feature. Took me a little bit to learn, but it is pretty slick. That is where I would make your Devil stats and abilities come time, and you can put it on any class you want to, does not have to be Blood Hunter.
There is a easy way to make yourself a ability to choose whatever spell you want in the game. So let's say you choose Sorcerer, which gives you two level 1 feature slots to change, one can be for your transformation features, and the other can be for a spell contract or steeling ability. For the spell contract feature, what you can do is add 6, 10, 12 or as may spells as you want, but when you add them, only adjust all the stats stuff to your liking...leave the spell blank. What this does when you go to the character builder, it lets you choose any spell in the game in the character builder to fill those slots. So from a roleplay perspective, as you go around making contacts or whatever, collecting spells, you can just go into the character builder when you get a spell, find it and then add it into one of the empty slots. You can play with this and see how it works.
There is one more thing you can do, when you make the subclass, you can add spell lists from all the main caster classes. It is a little annoying, because you will see doubled and tripled spells in your spell selection area. It is a little nicer, because you can do it from your character sheet. So from a roleplay perspective, you would select no cantrips or spells when you make your character. Then as you make contracts and gather spells, you can add the spells right in the character sheet. When you pull up the area that allows you to add spell, you will see all the spell lists from all classes, thus you now have access to all spells in the game again. Then again, you just roleplay with your DM what you find and successfully accumulate.
Not sure if the above makes sense, but I could show live, I tend to steam games to one to five people on tuesdays and wednesdays 7pm PST time (Colleptic on Twitch). So without much interruption I could take a moment to show you what I mean live.