I’ve been looking at the homebrewed subclasses aimed to bring the idea or role of a Pro wrestler into DnD, and after searching I would like to raise discussion on wether or not the pro wrestler archetype should be a subclass or it’s own homebrew class? Allow me to explain my reasoning:
The most popular class to build a pro wrestling subclass for is by far the Barbarian, which I think makes the most sense at surface-level due to their aggression and tankiness. However I feel that this choice undervalues the endurance needed for ~30 minute wrestling matches along with the performance aspect of the archetype. The next class I would immediately think to is the Bard, whos’ focus on entertainment matches the true purpose of pro wrestling. I’ve also seen the Monk used as a base class for the pro wrestler archetype, which I believe also fits as much as the bard.
so I want to know if making a whole class based around the archetype would be better than making them a subclass. I don’t have many ideas yet, but I feel some fun inclusions could be including Faces, Heels, and Gimmick wrestlers as the base subclasses. Possibly instead spellcasting similar to the artificer or monk’s pseudo-spell casting (false life = Undertaker sit-up, invisibility, spike growth, those kinds of spells).
Barbarian + Grappler feat + Tavern Brawler feat and you're already there. The improvised weapons aspect is useful for picking up chairs and whacking people with them, it allows you to restrain targets by pinning and you can use your bonus action to grapple. I'd say that a Homebrew Background would be more appropriate - one that let you pick up Performance as a skill. If you really want to Homebrew a wrestler then it should be a subclass of barbarian that gets the benefits of Grappler, Tavern Brawler and bonus proficiency in Performance (letting them use Str instead of Cha maybe?).
Regarding the 30 minute endurance... it's a performance in which the athletes help one another to perform. But D&D fights are typically over in 12-30 seconds. As someone who practices HEMA, it's worth noting that this is extremely long for a fight - real fights are usually over much quicker. It's fair to say that any martial class in D&D is a heroic figure and has that level of endurance.
I don't see how any spellcasting fits with the idea.
I think that’s the build most people go to when making a pro wrestler character, and emu only gripe with barbarian being used is that their rage burns up quickly. But I can see how that’s fine when combat doesn’t last very long in the first place, endurance isn’t as much of a priority.
I must have worded it weirdly, but my idea behind the innate spellcasting was that wrestlers can recreate the effects of a few spells using props and their acrobatic/acting skills. My main concept in the first post was to discuss which class would be ideal for a wrestler subclass, or if it would be better to create a separate class entirely.
As a player of a Swords Bard / Scout rogue for whom I draw upon pro wrestling for characterization (he runs a "totally real" fighting circuit, will often bet against himself via proxies for fights where he takes the fall, and largely adventures when the community gets wise to his con, link goes more in depth on how the Bardic features adapt to a Jesse Ventura and Randay Savage personality, ooo yeah), I think I feel you. I think Savael is right on with using existing mechanics to build a pro wrestler out of a barbarian, or fighter or really whatever. But I agree with you that Bardic magic can play with pro wrestling's working of a crowd as well as drawing energy from a crowd via phyiscal performance, and pro wrestlers can be literally inspiring.
So beyond the grappler/tavern brawler feats, I think you could do more with the rich lore attached to professional wrestling and either go with an independent class or a set of subclasses for a range of existing classes. This is D&D Beyond so do realize that a homebrew class however cool it may be wouldn't be supported in the tools we're all here for. Just some thoughts off the top of my head:
I think the Hobgoblin (original, I don't know if this is retained in the MMM version) saving face trait can be adapted into a similar class feature where a PC can draw upon their party's "crowd energy" to gain bonuses to difficult combat or physical actions.
kayfabe has got to be in there somehow, maybe they can draw on a "kayfabe" die that can soak damage as the wrestler is able to "roll with the punches" of a hit, maybe they can feign incapacitation faking 0 hp with some initiative advantage when they return to the fight
something to do with heel/face turns, like the character is able to present themselves as someone extreme on the heroic or villain spectrum of alignment* (aspects like this make the pro wrestler kinda MAD on the STR/DEX/CHR front, but not everyone has what it takes to stand in the squared circle).
thematic magic items like a luchador mask that combines the features of a ring of jumping with those of disguise self.
Those are just three four random thoughts, I'm now thinking of a Monk subclass or variant where the character has ki-fabe where the character has some wrestling variants to Monk martial arts.
Have you checked the homebrew offerings here? I'd be very surprised if there aren't multiple attempts at pro wrestler subclasses or feats. There may not be anything you want to directly adopt, but might prove instructive or inspirational.
Or find Jae Rhae Hagley from Mann Shorts on Twitter, I'm positive he has some pro wrestling homebrew for D&D and he should put his stuff out there.
Before anything, a shameless plug: I've made a subclass for the fighter that specializes in grappling, although it's not meant to be performative with wrestling. https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/202786-wrestler
Barbarian + Grappler feat + Tavern Brawler feat and you're already there. The improvised weapons aspect is useful for picking up chairs and whacking people with them, it allows you to restrain targets by pinning and you can use your bonus action to grapple. I'd say that a Homebrew Background would be more appropriate - one that let you pick up Performance as a skill. If you really want to Homebrew a wrestler then it should be a subclass of barbarian that gets the benefits of Grappler, Tavern Brawler and bonus proficiency in Performance (letting them use Str instead of Cha maybe?).
I would personally go with fighter over barbarian. Also, the grappler feat is a bit of a trap, as the pin mechanic is worse than useless, and you have advantage on melee attack rolls against an enemy that you've shoved prone, which you should always do when you have an enemy grappled. The tavern brawler feat holds up well, though. I'd go for fighter because you're going to want the extra attacks to regularly abuse the grapple/shove combo. Additionally, the new "unarmed fighting" fighting style helps, as the dedicated grappler build is generally going to want to be unarmed in order to grapple multiple creatures at once. You can also take the battle master subclass and use grappling strike to further amp your action economy. On the other hand, an 8th-level eldritch knight can choose enlarge/reduce.
I don't see how any spellcasting fits with the idea.
I could see the showmanship aspect of magic being a nice touch. Also, the enlarge/reduce spell is extremely useful for grappling. You can't grapple huge creatures without it, and being able to is awesome.
I’ve been looking at the homebrewed subclasses aimed to bring the idea or role of a Pro wrestler into DnD, and after searching I would like to raise discussion on wether or not the pro wrestler archetype should be a subclass or it’s own homebrew class? Allow me to explain my reasoning:
The most popular class to build a pro wrestling subclass for is by far the Barbarian, which I think makes the most sense at surface-level due to their aggression and tankiness. However I feel that this choice undervalues the endurance needed for ~30 minute wrestling matches along with the performance aspect of the archetype. The next class I would immediately think to is the Bard, whos’ focus on entertainment matches the true purpose of pro wrestling. I’ve also seen the Monk used as a base class for the pro wrestler archetype, which I believe also fits as much as the bard.
so I want to know if making a whole class based around the archetype would be better than making them a subclass. I don’t have many ideas yet, but I feel some fun inclusions could be including Faces, Heels, and Gimmick wrestlers as the base subclasses. Possibly instead spellcasting similar to the artificer or monk’s pseudo-spell casting (false life = Undertaker sit-up, invisibility, spike growth, those kinds of spells).
Barbarian + Grappler feat + Tavern Brawler feat and you're already there. The improvised weapons aspect is useful for picking up chairs and whacking people with them, it allows you to restrain targets by pinning and you can use your bonus action to grapple. I'd say that a Homebrew Background would be more appropriate - one that let you pick up Performance as a skill. If you really want to Homebrew a wrestler then it should be a subclass of barbarian that gets the benefits of Grappler, Tavern Brawler and bonus proficiency in Performance (letting them use Str instead of Cha maybe?).
Regarding the 30 minute endurance... it's a performance in which the athletes help one another to perform. But D&D fights are typically over in 12-30 seconds. As someone who practices HEMA, it's worth noting that this is extremely long for a fight - real fights are usually over much quicker. It's fair to say that any martial class in D&D is a heroic figure and has that level of endurance.
I don't see how any spellcasting fits with the idea.
I think that’s the build most people go to when making a pro wrestler character, and emu only gripe with barbarian being used is that their rage burns up quickly. But I can see how that’s fine when combat doesn’t last very long in the first place, endurance isn’t as much of a priority.
I must have worded it weirdly, but my idea behind the innate spellcasting was that wrestlers can recreate the effects of a few spells using props and their acrobatic/acting skills. My main concept in the first post was to discuss which class would be ideal for a wrestler subclass, or if it would be better to create a separate class entirely.
As a player of a Swords Bard / Scout rogue for whom I draw upon pro wrestling for characterization (he runs a "totally real" fighting circuit, will often bet against himself via proxies for fights where he takes the fall, and largely adventures when the community gets wise to his con, link goes more in depth on how the Bardic features adapt to a Jesse Ventura and Randay Savage personality, ooo yeah), I think I feel you. I think Savael is right on with using existing mechanics to build a pro wrestler out of a barbarian, or fighter or really whatever. But I agree with you that Bardic magic can play with pro wrestling's working of a crowd as well as drawing energy from a crowd via phyiscal performance, and pro wrestlers can be literally inspiring.
So beyond the grappler/tavern brawler feats, I think you could do more with the rich lore attached to professional wrestling and either go with an independent class or a set of subclasses for a range of existing classes. This is D&D Beyond so do realize that a homebrew class however cool it may be wouldn't be supported in the tools we're all here for. Just some thoughts off the top of my head:
Those are just
threefour random thoughts, I'm now thinking of a Monk subclass or variant where the character has ki-fabe where the character has some wrestling variants to Monk martial arts.Have you checked the homebrew offerings here? I'd be very surprised if there aren't multiple attempts at pro wrestler subclasses or feats. There may not be anything you want to directly adopt, but might prove instructive or inspirational.
Or find Jae Rhae Hagley from Mann Shorts on Twitter, I'm positive he has some pro wrestling homebrew for D&D and he should put his stuff out there.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Before anything, a shameless plug: I've made a subclass for the fighter that specializes in grappling, although it's not meant to be performative with wrestling. https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/202786-wrestler
I would personally go with fighter over barbarian. Also, the grappler feat is a bit of a trap, as the pin mechanic is worse than useless, and you have advantage on melee attack rolls against an enemy that you've shoved prone, which you should always do when you have an enemy grappled. The tavern brawler feat holds up well, though. I'd go for fighter because you're going to want the extra attacks to regularly abuse the grapple/shove combo. Additionally, the new "unarmed fighting" fighting style helps, as the dedicated grappler build is generally going to want to be unarmed in order to grapple multiple creatures at once. You can also take the battle master subclass and use grappling strike to further amp your action economy. On the other hand, an 8th-level eldritch knight can choose enlarge/reduce.
I could see the showmanship aspect of magic being a nice touch. Also, the enlarge/reduce spell is extremely useful for grappling. You can't grapple huge creatures without it, and being able to is awesome.