I am aware that this have been a topic long discussed in the community and lots of people want as a core class feature, but I believe there are cons that come with pros of implementing a homebrew idea.
If the Battle Master's maneuvers become a core feature, this does increase the Fighter class's versatility, combat and social utility, and DPR while fulfilling the versatile and tactical warrior MARKETED theme of the class. For example, they will be able to choose whether they want to increase their defense with Evasive Footwork or Parry, aid allies with Commander's Strike or Maneuvering Attack, or hinder enemies with Disarming Strike or Trip Attack. Sounds very cool and tactical, and the Battle Master doesn't need to be undermined as the superiority dice start as d6's and can be only be increased with the Battle Master subclass. It is a shame that it didn't became a core things in 5e's playtest in 2014 (D&D Next) and 2024 (One D&D).
However, this ideas comes with a few set-backs when implementing this idea in CURRENT 2014 and 2024 5e-D&D. Especially if there are is another Fighter who is playing the Battle Master subclass. Firstly, it buffs subclass that already uses resources like the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Archer and Psi Warrior thus also not balancing them with the weaker subclasses. Additionally, it degrades the uniqueness and mystique of the Battle Master, and (if given to ALL martials) degrade the feel and theming of the Fighter class.
So, could you please share your thoughts for this homebrew idea that you may help those parties considering to implement this homebrew?
I compromise I'd suggest to people is just giving all your martial characters the Martial Adept feat for free - including those playing a Battlemaster.
That does sound like a good compromise. One thing I would like to do with that feat is to give up to 3 dice instead of 1that way players would get more enjoyment out of the feat.
I also would like to preference that my post was speaking on this topic from a game design perspective, and I want to open it up for discussion that I may help young and old DM when addressing Martial player wants and/or the Martial-Caster divide at their tables.
If you have martial players that want to play like a spellcaster, consider allowing spellcasters to reflavour their spells as weapon attacks. Hold Person can be wrapping a target in a whip, fire ball can be throwing a bomb, tidal wave can be hurling a boulder, eldritch blast can be a magical bow etc...
In general "do-it-all" characters are bad for the game, this is a social-cooperative game so it is deliberate that different classes can do different things to promote cooperation between them.
Alternatively, hand out tons of cool weapons and armour to the martials, there's lots of HB stuff and even published stuff around that could be handed out. TBH lots of it is much cooler than maneuvers too.
The suggestion, for quite some time, has been to remove battlemasters and give their maneuvers to every Fighter as a core feature. Basically, every fighter would be a battlemaster and be able to choose a subclass. That's what they should have done in 5e24 instead of adding weapon masteries.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
The suggestion, for quite some time, has been to remove battlemasters and give their maneuvers to every Fighter as a core feature. Basically, every fighter would be a battlemaster and be able to choose a subclass. That's what they should have done in 5e24 instead of adding weapon masteries.
Then what gets removed from the Fighter class to compensate? You could to this an then remove the 2 extra ASI/Feat slots, that Fighters get. But I suspect Fighter players would be more upset at losing extra ASI/Feats than happy at gaining maneuvers.
This has been talked about ad nauseum elsewhere. 2014 fighters needed a buff to bring them up to the power level of other classes. The suggestion with the most support was to simply make the Battlemaster maneuvers available to all fighters regardless of subclass (basically to remove the subclass of battlemaster and absorb their primary schtick into fighters as a core feature).
Instead they fed almost every subclass in the game, muscle milk, then added weapon masteries (that are also available to non-fighters) as their way of balancing things. I, and others, have argued that doing so has actually made things even more unbalanced than it was before.
There are a dozen or more other threads throughout this forum on that very topic, and a dozen more that point out that Rogues now make better fighters, than fighters do (but again, that's getting off topic and is better discussed in those other threads).
In this topic, I was simply answering the question posted above mine asking what would happen to Battlemasters if their maneuvers were given to all fighters.
I am aware that this have been a topic long discussed in the community and lots of people want as a core class feature, but I believe there are cons that come with pros of implementing a homebrew idea.
If the Battle Master's maneuvers become a core feature, this does increase the Fighter class's versatility, combat and social utility, and DPR while fulfilling the versatile and tactical warrior MARKETED theme of the class. For example, they will be able to choose whether they want to increase their defense with Evasive Footwork or Parry, aid allies with Commander's Strike or Maneuvering Attack, or hinder enemies with Disarming Strike or Trip Attack. Sounds very cool and tactical, and the Battle Master doesn't need to be undermined as the superiority dice start as d6's and can be only be increased with the Battle Master subclass. It is a shame that it didn't became a core things in 5e's playtest in 2014 (D&D Next) and 2024 (One D&D).
However, this ideas comes with a few set-backs when implementing this idea in CURRENT 2014 and 2024 5e-D&D. Especially if there are is another Fighter who is playing the Battle Master subclass. Firstly, it buffs subclass that already uses resources like the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Archer and Psi Warrior thus also not balancing them with the weaker subclasses. Additionally, it degrades the uniqueness and mystique of the Battle Master, and (if given to ALL martials) degrade the feel and theming of the Fighter class.
So, could you please share your thoughts for this homebrew idea that you may help those parties considering to implement this homebrew?
I compromise I'd suggest to people is just giving all your martial characters the Martial Adept feat for free - including those playing a Battlemaster.
That does sound like a good compromise. One thing I would like to do with that feat is to give up to 3 dice instead of 1that way players would get more enjoyment out of the feat.
I also would like to preference that my post was speaking on this topic from a game design perspective, and I want to open it up for discussion that I may help young and old DM when addressing Martial player wants and/or the Martial-Caster divide at their tables.
If you have martial players that want to play like a spellcaster, consider allowing spellcasters to reflavour their spells as weapon attacks. Hold Person can be wrapping a target in a whip, fire ball can be throwing a bomb, tidal wave can be hurling a boulder, eldritch blast can be a magical bow etc...
In general "do-it-all" characters are bad for the game, this is a social-cooperative game so it is deliberate that different classes can do different things to promote cooperation between them.
Alternatively, hand out tons of cool weapons and armour to the martials, there's lots of HB stuff and even published stuff around that could be handed out. TBH lots of it is much cooler than maneuvers too.
If you did this, what would be the point of Battle Masters?
The suggestion, for quite some time, has been to remove battlemasters and give their maneuvers to every Fighter as a core feature. Basically, every fighter would be a battlemaster and be able to choose a subclass. That's what they should have done in 5e24 instead of adding weapon masteries.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Then what gets removed from the Fighter class to compensate? You could to this an then remove the 2 extra ASI/Feat slots, that Fighters get. But I suspect Fighter players would be more upset at losing extra ASI/Feats than happy at gaining maneuvers.
This has been talked about ad nauseum elsewhere. 2014 fighters needed a buff to bring them up to the power level of other classes. The suggestion with the most support was to simply make the Battlemaster maneuvers available to all fighters regardless of subclass (basically to remove the subclass of battlemaster and absorb their primary schtick into fighters as a core feature).
Instead they fed almost every subclass in the game, muscle milk, then added weapon masteries (that are also available to non-fighters) as their way of balancing things. I, and others, have argued that doing so has actually made things even more unbalanced than it was before.
There are a dozen or more other threads throughout this forum on that very topic, and a dozen more that point out that Rogues now make better fighters, than fighters do (but again, that's getting off topic and is better discussed in those other threads).
In this topic, I was simply answering the question posted above mine asking what would happen to Battlemasters if their maneuvers were given to all fighters.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.