I needed an occultist from Pathfinder to translate into my 5e game... so I built the class up from scratch. It is messy, overcomplicated, doesn't 100% stick to the spirit of the original, and it took me two weeks to make with the hope it follows DnD philosophy, but here it is.
Sorry that nobody is paying much attention to your homebrew class. It's a big wall of text that has a lot that makes the class unique compared to other spellcasters, which makes it kind of hard for me to see the impacts it'll have on game-play. Right now I don't feel like going though the giant wall of text that is a class, so I'll just say what sticks out a ton.
The spell progression system is not aligned with normal spellcastors. Normal casters get higher level spells on every odd level, not even level. Not sure why this change is here, so I won't say much about it.
Spell points system for spellcasting. On a closer look, your system isn't exactly that well thought out it seems, a level 20 would have only 40 points. So you could cast one level 9 spell (21 points), then one level 8 spell (18 points) and that's it for the day (1 point left). Compared that to a level 20 wizard... yeah that doesn't hold up well. I would advise looking at the DMG optional rule for spell points. Or just stick to normal spellcasting, works out for every other class.
It's also missing a spell list.
As for why others aren't paying much attention, I can think of a couple reasons. Probably not the average poster though, so take these with a bit of salt.
D&D Beyond doesn't even have support for homebrew classes
It's a giant post of text. You could use spoilers to reveal parts at a time, or post it in separate posts.
Occultist has probably been done a bunch load of times. Try starting your post with what makes you version unique and cool compared to the others.
Providing guidance on a class requires a lot of effort and thinking, and usually you end up not using it. Most of the popular posts seem to revolve around using the D&D Beyond HB system, small things like spells, unique game-altering rules, and rarely subclasses.
Thank you for the post. I appreciate it a bunch, truly. It's very discouraging to work as much on a thing to have it be not noticed, even if I understand the reasons why. Presentation could use polish, I know.
The design philosophy behind the spell point system was going to be that the occultist would be very versatile in its choice of spells. It has no spell list because it can pluck spells from every single class. Furthermore, the theory abilities and esoteric powers would lend a fair amount of punch to the class' capabilities, shoring up the lack of slots, sort of like a warlock's invocations. Every philosophy has a school of magic that it focuses on that reduces the cost of spellcasting by one mental focus, so the idea was that you would lean on that one school more than the others. It's a bit like the old wizard from 3.5 that had opposition schools I suppose. I was also hoping that the class' flexibility, proficiency with armor and capacity to become a decent martial combatant with potent spellcasting would balance it out. Perhaps I could expand on this to make spellcasting more palatable, especially since the class' abilities also draw from the same pool as spellcasting. I was worried about making it too overpowered so that's probably where my design didn't fully work. It's part of the reason why I wanted someone to playtest this in a one-shot and let me know how it did.
But thank you, sincerely, for not only your constructive criticism but your willingness to just acknowledge its existence. You got no idea how much that's made a bad day better.
Not sure why you focused so much on making the class versatile, I don't see why exactly they should be versatile then like a bard (creating their own thing) or wizard (study everything). Also there's not much point in making a full caster if it's going to have no slots, maybe like a half caster, pact magic, or something else.
Maybe focus on what it would do in battle (probably out of battle too but that's less important), like would it blast away with massive fireballs or eldritch blasts? Control the battlefield with creative uses of spells like Web? Buff and debuff with spells like Haste or Slow? Etc.
Try to figure out what this class is supposed to do that you can't do with like a warlock for example. If you can't figure that out then maybe a subclass would be better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
- Implement Spellcasting now functions off of preparing spells rather than knowing them, allowing for adaptability. - Refocusing Rites now also allows an occultist to swap out a very limited number of spells they have prepared as well as restoring mental focus. - Occultists now gain 3 mental focus per level instead of 2 in order to grant them greater resource potential. - The theory abilities for Theory of Forces have been overhauled. - Modifications on several other Theosophical Theories here and there, mostly on the cost of abilities and their wording to make them clearer. - Some Esoteric Powers have been reworked to allow you to cast spells rather than simply have them once per day. They still grant bonus capabilities for these spells. - Minor tweaks to the cost of each ability's mental focus for balancing. A greater emphasis is made on each theory's specialization.
To answer you, 4yulming4, I perhaps made a mistake when I said 'versatile'. Rather, on a mechanical function the class takes one school of magic and extrapolates it to do extreme things with it that normally would not be possible. As far as combat goes, some subclasses - such as Theory of Physicism and Theory of Forces - are going to inevitably dominate as damage-dealing heavy hitters whereas others such as Theory of Intrigue, Theory of Eternity, and Theory of Collectivity will focus on utility, support, and non-combat encounters where diplomacy is the key. Theory of Surrealism rewards creativity as most illusion-focused builds do and grants the tools with which to do so, and Theory of Creativity and Theory of Mortality have a wide spread of options for damage, support, and utility, allowing them to fulfill a great many combat roles. On top of that, the class does not have a spell list because it can actually take spells from any class, limited only by the number of implements they have.
- Overhauled a lot of the language on both the class and ability descriptions to conform more with 5e language. - Additional re-balancing and clarification on how some abilities work, particularly the Surrealist's Obfuscate Potency. - Biggest of all, there is now a TABLE! It is visible on the page, but for ease of reference, here it is. - Minor alterations to the introductory flavor text.
It's looking like it's coming along quite well. Hopefully, it can be playtested soon.
Major overhaul. Did away with the bloat of the mental focus system. Streamlined down, though, and a bit easier to use. Less math. Abilities no longer cost mental focus, they're just limited to a number of times per rest depending on how strong they are. Some changes to the spell preparation, mainly to be balanced contextually to the rest of the classes. I won't make a spell list, though people insist I should, as the point of the class is that their spell list is the up to 6 schools of magic they can get with their implements. Each class more or less has about 3/4 of the available spells with a few being class-unique, so it about adds up. Some overhauls done to theosophical theory, too, primarily to reflect the changes done to mental focus and spellcasting in general. Overall, the current version is much more in line with DND 5e philosophy.
Solved some language issues. Organized everything based on alphabetical order, including Esoteric Powers which are arranged in level prerequisite order as well. Additional esoteric powers have been made, some have been merged.
I know I continue to say 'this is it' but every step and polish gets the class closer and closer to being as close to its finalized form as can be envisioned. Hopefully this will be more or less it pending some spark of interest to expand it further.
I needed an occultist from Pathfinder to translate into my 5e game... so I built the class up from scratch. It is messy, overcomplicated, doesn't 100% stick to the spirit of the original, and it took me two weeks to make with the hope it follows DnD philosophy, but here it is.
I plan to do others in time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RZlXWBYxY6F4Tx-v7Rj-QAxKsdPcURz6O4O6HJGYRuQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
It has been updated. I would like some intrepid individuals to playtest it, perhaps in a one-shot. I'd offer to run it but sadly don't have the time.
Fine. I'll take the hint.
Sorry that nobody is paying much attention to your homebrew class. It's a big wall of text that has a lot that makes the class unique compared to other spellcasters, which makes it kind of hard for me to see the impacts it'll have on game-play. Right now I don't feel like going though the giant wall of text that is a class, so I'll just say what sticks out a ton.
The spell progression system is not aligned with normal spellcastors. Normal casters get higher level spells on every odd level, not even level. Not sure why this change is here, so I won't say much about it.
Spell points system for spellcasting. On a closer look, your system isn't exactly that well thought out it seems, a level 20 would have only 40 points. So you could cast one level 9 spell (21 points), then one level 8 spell (18 points) and that's it for the day (1 point left). Compared that to a level 20 wizard... yeah that doesn't hold up well. I would advise looking at the DMG optional rule for spell points. Or just stick to normal spellcasting, works out for every other class.
It's also missing a spell list.
As for why others aren't paying much attention, I can think of a couple reasons. Probably not the average poster though, so take these with a bit of salt.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Thank you for the post. I appreciate it a bunch, truly. It's very discouraging to work as much on a thing to have it be not noticed, even if I understand the reasons why. Presentation could use polish, I know.
The design philosophy behind the spell point system was going to be that the occultist would be very versatile in its choice of spells. It has no spell list because it can pluck spells from every single class. Furthermore, the theory abilities and esoteric powers would lend a fair amount of punch to the class' capabilities, shoring up the lack of slots, sort of like a warlock's invocations. Every philosophy has a school of magic that it focuses on that reduces the cost of spellcasting by one mental focus, so the idea was that you would lean on that one school more than the others. It's a bit like the old wizard from 3.5 that had opposition schools I suppose. I was also hoping that the class' flexibility, proficiency with armor and capacity to become a decent martial combatant with potent spellcasting would balance it out. Perhaps I could expand on this to make spellcasting more palatable, especially since the class' abilities also draw from the same pool as spellcasting. I was worried about making it too overpowered so that's probably where my design didn't fully work. It's part of the reason why I wanted someone to playtest this in a one-shot and let me know how it did.
But thank you, sincerely, for not only your constructive criticism but your willingness to just acknowledge its existence. You got no idea how much that's made a bad day better.
Not sure why you focused so much on making the class versatile, I don't see why exactly they should be versatile then like a bard (creating their own thing) or wizard (study everything). Also there's not much point in making a full caster if it's going to have no slots, maybe like a half caster, pact magic, or something else.
Maybe focus on what it would do in battle (probably out of battle too but that's less important), like would it blast away with massive fireballs or eldritch blasts? Control the battlefield with creative uses of spells like Web? Buff and debuff with spells like Haste or Slow? Etc.
Try to figure out what this class is supposed to do that you can't do with like a warlock for example. If you can't figure that out then maybe a subclass would be better.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Alterations have been made.
- Implement Spellcasting now functions off of preparing spells rather than knowing them, allowing for adaptability.
- Refocusing Rites now also allows an occultist to swap out a very limited number of spells they have prepared as well as restoring mental focus.
- Occultists now gain 3 mental focus per level instead of 2 in order to grant them greater resource potential.
- The theory abilities for Theory of Forces have been overhauled.
- Modifications on several other Theosophical Theories here and there, mostly on the cost of abilities and their wording to make them clearer.
- Some Esoteric Powers have been reworked to allow you to cast spells rather than simply have them once per day. They still grant bonus capabilities for these spells.
- Minor tweaks to the cost of each ability's mental focus for balancing. A greater emphasis is made on each theory's specialization.
To answer you, 4yulming4, I perhaps made a mistake when I said 'versatile'. Rather, on a mechanical function the class takes one school of magic and extrapolates it to do extreme things with it that normally would not be possible. As far as combat goes, some subclasses - such as Theory of Physicism and Theory of Forces - are going to inevitably dominate as damage-dealing heavy hitters whereas others such as Theory of Intrigue, Theory of Eternity, and Theory of Collectivity will focus on utility, support, and non-combat encounters where diplomacy is the key. Theory of Surrealism rewards creativity as most illusion-focused builds do and grants the tools with which to do so, and Theory of Creativity and Theory of Mortality have a wide spread of options for damage, support, and utility, allowing them to fulfill a great many combat roles. On top of that, the class does not have a spell list because it can actually take spells from any class, limited only by the number of implements they have.
Updates:
- Overhauled a lot of the language on both the class and ability descriptions to conform more with 5e language.
- Additional re-balancing and clarification on how some abilities work, particularly the Surrealist's Obfuscate Potency.
- Biggest of all, there is now a TABLE! It is visible on the page, but for ease of reference, here it is.
- Minor alterations to the introductory flavor text.
It's looking like it's coming along quite well. Hopefully, it can be playtested soon.
Minor updates, mainly in regards to Creation. 17th level ability was too strong, so I had to tone it down. Further polish on the wording as well.
Major overhaul. Did away with the bloat of the mental focus system. Streamlined down, though, and a bit easier to use. Less math. Abilities no longer cost mental focus, they're just limited to a number of times per rest depending on how strong they are. Some changes to the spell preparation, mainly to be balanced contextually to the rest of the classes. I won't make a spell list, though people insist I should, as the point of the class is that their spell list is the up to 6 schools of magic they can get with their implements. Each class more or less has about 3/4 of the available spells with a few being class-unique, so it about adds up. Some overhauls done to theosophical theory, too, primarily to reflect the changes done to mental focus and spellcasting in general. Overall, the current version is much more in line with DND 5e philosophy.
Solved some language issues. Organized everything based on alphabetical order, including Esoteric Powers which are arranged in level prerequisite order as well. Additional esoteric powers have been made, some have been merged.
I know I continue to say 'this is it' but every step and polish gets the class closer and closer to being as close to its finalized form as can be envisioned. Hopefully this will be more or less it pending some spark of interest to expand it further.
You still working on this? If I may ask?