that's kind of why Skameros is just swinging blindly instead of having to futz with a crystal (plus his great axe is two handed)
Maybe I should just try and grapple her instead
I think you're the only one that rolled to craft a jig to hold the crystal to your eye. It failed the first time, but I would say it's OK to use your free action to put it back over your eye, and make the roll again to see if it stays when you attack.
The mechanics of this is really difficult because you, the players, all know where the Medusa is. But your characters wouldn't, if they're looking away.
The only way I can think to implement this, would be to introduce another skill check (Beegred's ability to describe, or each of your abilities to interpret what Beegred is telling you?). If you fail, I retroactively move her. If you succeed, then she is where the map says she is.
The mechanics of this is really difficult because you, the players, all know where the Medusa is. But your characters wouldn't, if they're looking away.
Question: Beegred has Hunter's Mark on the medusa. If he is looking away (because I've rolled terribly for the CON saves so far, despite crystal advantage), how would that work?
Would he still know where to strike (although still to-hit with disadvantage)? Roll a Perception check (with or without the spell advantage) that he is aiming at the correct square? Could he relay that to the others?
The spell should give him some information better than randomly guessing a grid square.
The other thing I am considering, since Skameros/ArgentTheWise mentioned "grappling", is Beegred trying to put a sack over her head. (Bought one just before this trip!) I'm guessing her snake hair could still attack, but it would stop the petrifying gaze. People could attack normally, and her attacks would be with disadvantage (blind).
I'm not sure how the game mechanics would (or even if it could) work, so I wanted to mention it now to have time to think about it (in case Beegred wants to try that next round).
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM) Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy) DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
1) If Beegred stops looking at the Medusa, he won't be able to relay where she is to the others. In this situation, I will not display if and where she moves. You will have to attack a square and can only hit if she is in that square.
2) I would absolutely jump on board with innovative solutions instead of just facing off and swinging attacks. Putting a sack (or an emptied backpack) over her head would absolutely work, and be the kind of solution that a party of heroes uses to survive where others die. If you want to go forward with this, then lets lay out what I think the rules should be:
a) She will not want this to happen, so she will counter. I think a contested grapple check is appropriate here, and the grappling condition will apply on top of stopping her petrifying gaze and the snake attacks.
b) This is text from the Medusa:
Unless surprised, a creature can avert its eyes to avoid the saving throw at the start of its turn. If the creature does so, it can't see the medusa until the start of its next turn, when it can avert its eyes again. If the creature looks at the medusa in the meantime, it must immediately make the save.
This means, if the grapple succeeds, and others choose to look at her at the start of their turn, then the Medusa breaks the grapple on her turn, then everyone that is looking at her has to make the saving throw.
Beegred will try bag-a-medusa on his next round, unless Skameros tries (and is successful) this round.
For (1), you mentioned that the medusa would not be shown on the board. Could Beegred try the grapple while looking away? The question is, would I have to guess the square, or would Hunter's Mark let Beegred (and only Beegred) pick the right square?
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM) Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy) DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
Yeah without knowing where she is - Skameros would just be blindly leaping at her - though TBH would his reach work to his advantage on this? since he'd only need to be within 10 feet of her? I could use my next action to try and fix my crystal and then try to grapple her the next round.
The thought was that Skameros is big and beefy and if he can get his hands on her then the bag her head or something similar to incapacitate her should be easier to accomplish - though grapple just stops her from moving not doing anything else like attacking or petrifying us.
Yeah without knowing where she is - Skameros would just be blindly leaping at her - though TBH would his reach work to his advantage on this? since he'd only need to be within 10 feet of her? I could use my next action to try and fix my crystal and then try to grapple her the next round.
The thought was that Skameros is big and beefy and if he can get his hands on her then the bag her head or something similar to incapacitate her should be easier to accomplish - though grapple just stops her from moving not doing anything else like attacking or petrifying us.
Beegred looked this round, and yelled out where she was, so Skameros isn't acting completely blind this round.
Kerrec said you could use a free action for the crystal lenses, not a full action (post 2868).
Beegred does have Athletics proficiency, so he has a decent chance of success for a grapple, but I agree that Skameros would be better (and less likely to have his grapple broken after everyone is looking at the medusa).
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Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM) Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy) DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
Looking back I think Rodolfo is the only one who rolled to see if he could fashion a mask of the crystal - I don't see anywhere where I did - so scrap that idea.
But Beegred did tell me to move 5 feet closer to get her - does that still give me disadvantage on a grapple check?
Oh. Already too long ago for me to remember correctly. I thought it was Skameros that did the thing. Thanks for being honest though.
A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage.
I would think a grapple can happen while blind, if you grapple at the correct place, which Beegred's help is allowing you to do. Then it's a contested skill check, not an attack roll. But if you're trying to grapple AND shove a bag over her head, you'll need both hands free.
I figured if I can get a hold her - someone else can try to bag her head - I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making an athletics check at disadvantage because of not actually seeing her - just going on Beegred's directions.
Whoever does the bagging, will also have to make a grappling check. All your grapple will do is keep her from moving.
Edit: While, I suppose if neither want to drop a weapon, then doing it this way means two people are using 1 hand each so they don't have to drop anything.
Skameros will move forward 5 feet per Beegred's direction and leaps forward to try and tackle the medusa
[Athletics: 24] (my character sheet states I have inspiration - so I'm going to burn it here - if I don't then just take the lower roll)
"RAAAAAHHHHH!"
Usually, you can choose to use inspiration after you rolled, but before you know the result. Seeing as your first roll was an 18 (are you cheating!!?), I'd say you'd be pretty sure you didn't need to use the inspiration. And this fight isn't over... you might need it. So consider it not used.
I was looking to see how others dealt with multiple grapplers, since I didn't see anything in the RAW. Crawford said (when he DMs) that he does one escape roll vs. all the grapplers rolling (needing to beat the highest roll). If you decide that sounds right, it will reduce the chance of unexpected petrifying, which sounds good to me.
Beegred will be punching the medusa (as long as the sack stays on), but at least it is Hunter's-Mark-enhanced punching.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM) Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy) DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
I don't mean to sabotage my own party members, but with Skameros and Beegred grappling the medusa, won't they be stuck to her when the glob coats her? It might be safer to just do a conventional cantrip attack to slay her quickly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM) Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy) DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
I took a look at the description of the item and it specifically says "a creature" - singular. wand of viscid globs
And I would assume Beegred and Skameros are holding the bag down and not actually doing skin-to-skin hugging. Another thought there was that the attacks so far had not been too successful and we'd all be dead if one of the ungrapple checks failed. It's not like the medusa was about to die next round.
So yeah, I did consider it and decided to go with the wand this round. Even so, if they all get globbed then it will disappear after an hour and the medusa can be safely killed in the meanwhile. There is the question of other stuff happening within that hour, but I don't imagine a lot of traffic happening around the area where a medusa lives. Still, continuing on that line of thinking then Narstin and Rodolfo can transport Beegred and Skameros away.. if strength doesn't help then levitate them and push them to the lair of the medusa or something like that.
The wand worked. It does specifically state ONE creature. I guess there's enough communication among each other to avoid the effect of the glob when it hits.
HOWEVER, the glob prevents her from having any movement speed. The glob does not keep the bag on her head. Beegred must still maintain the grapple for the bag.
Aha, that's a good point. It's not an instant win against a creature like Medusa. She'll be stationary for an hour and easier to hit, but otherwise not bothered by it too much.
Aha, that's a good point. It's not an instant win against a creature like Medusa. She'll be stationary for an hour and easier to hit, but otherwise not bothered by it too much.
As you point out, it may take a while to whittle down the medusa. If the medusa continues rolling insanely high (all 18s and 19s so far), she would eventually break the grapple. But with the glob, we know what square to aim for, even if we are looking away. (Plus restrained cancels the disadvantage of not-looking.)
With a bag over her head, she is blinded, we do have advantage on the to-hit rolls. I was thinking only of that, when I asked about the glob. (I should have considered different situations.)
Does Skameros have a non 2-handed weapon? He can still punch the Medusa. Less damage than weapons (1+STR), but I like the absurdity of having a "street fight" with a medusa in a sack.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM) Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy) DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
The difference is you know where she is. But yes, disadvantage either way.
I think you're the only one that rolled to craft a jig to hold the crystal to your eye. It failed the first time, but I would say it's OK to use your free action to put it back over your eye, and make the roll again to see if it stays when you attack.
The mechanics of this is really difficult because you, the players, all know where the Medusa is. But your characters wouldn't, if they're looking away.
The only way I can think to implement this, would be to introduce another skill check (Beegred's ability to describe, or each of your abilities to interpret what Beegred is telling you?). If you fail, I retroactively move her. If you succeed, then she is where the map says she is.
Question: Beegred has Hunter's Mark on the medusa. If he is looking away (because I've rolled terribly for the CON saves so far, despite crystal advantage), how would that work?
Would he still know where to strike (although still to-hit with disadvantage)? Roll a Perception check (with or without the spell advantage) that he is aiming at the correct square? Could he relay that to the others?
The spell should give him some information better than randomly guessing a grid square.
The other thing I am considering, since Skameros/ArgentTheWise mentioned "grappling", is Beegred trying to put a sack over her head. (Bought one just before this trip!) I'm guessing her snake hair could still attack, but it would stop the petrifying gaze. People could attack normally, and her attacks would be with disadvantage (blind).
I'm not sure how the game mechanics would (or even if it could) work, so I wanted to mention it now to have time to think about it (in case Beegred wants to try that next round).
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec
Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM)
Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
1) If Beegred stops looking at the Medusa, he won't be able to relay where she is to the others. In this situation, I will not display if and where she moves. You will have to attack a square and can only hit if she is in that square.
2) I would absolutely jump on board with innovative solutions instead of just facing off and swinging attacks. Putting a sack (or an emptied backpack) over her head would absolutely work, and be the kind of solution that a party of heroes uses to survive where others die. If you want to go forward with this, then lets lay out what I think the rules should be:
a) She will not want this to happen, so she will counter. I think a contested grapple check is appropriate here, and the grappling condition will apply on top of stopping her petrifying gaze and the snake attacks.
b) This is text from the Medusa:
Unless surprised, a creature can avert its eyes to avoid the saving throw at the start of its turn. If the creature does so, it can't see the medusa until the start of its next turn, when it can avert its eyes again. If the creature looks at the medusa in the meantime, it must immediately make the save.
This means, if the grapple succeeds, and others choose to look at her at the start of their turn, then the Medusa breaks the grapple on her turn, then everyone that is looking at her has to make the saving throw.
Sound fair?
Beegred will try bag-a-medusa on his next round, unless Skameros tries (and is successful) this round.
For (1), you mentioned that the medusa would not be shown on the board. Could Beegred try the grapple while looking away? The question is, would I have to guess the square, or would Hunter's Mark let Beegred (and only Beegred) pick the right square?
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec
Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM)
Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
Yeah without knowing where she is - Skameros would just be blindly leaping at her - though TBH would his reach work to his advantage on this? since he'd only need to be within 10 feet of her? I could use my next action to try and fix my crystal and then try to grapple her the next round.
The thought was that Skameros is big and beefy and if he can get his hands on her then the bag her head or something similar to incapacitate her should be easier to accomplish - though grapple just stops her from moving not doing anything else like attacking or petrifying us.
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
Beegred looked this round, and yelled out where she was, so Skameros isn't acting completely blind this round.
Kerrec said you could use a free action for the crystal lenses, not a full action (post 2868).
Beegred does have Athletics proficiency, so he has a decent chance of success for a grapple, but I agree that Skameros would be better (and less likely to have his grapple broken after everyone is looking at the medusa).
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec
Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM)
Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
Oh I missed the free part - I read action so even better
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
Looking back I think Rodolfo is the only one who rolled to see if he could fashion a mask of the crystal - I don't see anywhere where I did - so scrap that idea.
But Beegred did tell me to move 5 feet closer to get her - does that still give me disadvantage on a grapple check?
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
Oh. Already too long ago for me to remember correctly. I thought it was Skameros that did the thing. Thanks for being honest though.
I would think a grapple can happen while blind, if you grapple at the correct place, which Beegred's help is allowing you to do. Then it's a contested skill check, not an attack roll. But if you're trying to grapple AND shove a bag over her head, you'll need both hands free.
I figured if I can get a hold her - someone else can try to bag her head - I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making an athletics check at disadvantage because of not actually seeing her - just going on Beegred's directions.
(anyone got a bag of holding or devouring hehe)
Skameros - Bugbear Barbarian - Out of the Abyss - By Kerrec
Follow your Arrow where it Points - Tabaxi Monk - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
Citron Pumpkinfoam - Fairy Monk - Project Point: Team Longsword
Whoever does the bagging, will also have to make a grappling check. All your grapple will do is keep her from moving.
Edit: While, I suppose if neither want to drop a weapon, then doing it this way means two people are using 1 hand each so they don't have to drop anything.
Usually, you can choose to use inspiration after you rolled, but before you know the result. Seeing as your first roll was an 18 (are you cheating!!?), I'd say you'd be pretty sure you didn't need to use the inspiration. And this fight isn't over... you might need it. So consider it not used.
I was looking to see how others dealt with multiple grapplers, since I didn't see anything in the RAW. Crawford said (when he DMs) that he does one escape roll vs. all the grapplers rolling (needing to beat the highest roll). If you decide that sounds right, it will reduce the chance of unexpected petrifying, which sounds good to me.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/04/27/if-youre-grappled-by-multiple-creatures-do-you-use-a-separate-action-to-escape-from-each
Beegred will be punching the medusa (as long as the sack stays on), but at least it is Hunter's-Mark-enhanced punching.
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec
Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM)
Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
Rodolfo is still using the wand?
I don't mean to sabotage my own party members, but with Skameros and Beegred grappling the medusa, won't they be stuck to her when the glob coats her? It might be safer to just do a conventional cantrip attack to slay her quickly.
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec
Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM)
Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
I took a look at the description of the item and it specifically says "a creature" - singular. wand of viscid globs
And I would assume Beegred and Skameros are holding the bag down and not actually doing skin-to-skin hugging. Another thought there was that the attacks so far had not been too successful and we'd all be dead if one of the ungrapple checks failed. It's not like the medusa was about to die next round.
So yeah, I did consider it and decided to go with the wand this round. Even so, if they all get globbed then it will disappear after an hour and the medusa can be safely killed in the meanwhile. There is the question of other stuff happening within that hour, but I don't imagine a lot of traffic happening around the area where a medusa lives. Still, continuing on that line of thinking then Narstin and Rodolfo can transport Beegred and Skameros away.. if strength doesn't help then levitate them and push them to the lair of the medusa or something like that.
The wand worked. It does specifically state ONE creature. I guess there's enough communication among each other to avoid the effect of the glob when it hits.
HOWEVER, the glob prevents her from having any movement speed. The glob does not keep the bag on her head. Beegred must still maintain the grapple for the bag.
Aha, that's a good point. It's not an instant win against a creature like Medusa. She'll be stationary for an hour and easier to hit, but otherwise not bothered by it too much.
As you point out, it may take a while to whittle down the medusa. If the medusa continues rolling insanely high (all 18s and 19s so far), she would eventually break the grapple. But with the glob, we know what square to aim for, even if we are looking away. (Plus restrained cancels the disadvantage of not-looking.)
With a bag over her head, she is blinded, we do have advantage on the to-hit rolls. I was thinking only of that, when I asked about the glob. (I should have considered different situations.)
Does Skameros have a non 2-handed weapon? He can still punch the Medusa. Less damage than weapons (1+STR), but I like the absurdity of having a "street fight" with a medusa in a sack.
Beegred Thornpost - Lvl 8 Halfling Ranger - Out of the Abyss by Kerrec
Drusk - Lvl 8 Half-Orc Life Cleric - The Long Road: Dragon Heist by Mingofaust (player & current DM)
Hunferho Aelorothi - Lvl 5 Half-Elf Bard/Rogue - Baldur's Gate: Descent Into Avernus (by Pokepaladdy)
DM - Frontier City of Nunkreet (ended)
This is indeed turning out to have comical imagery.