I’m new to the game and still trying to learn, and I’m creating a character and aesthetically in my mind he is rocking a hand crossbow in one hand and a scimitar in the other, firing off bolts and slashing throats with swift precision in battle.
anyhow, just wanting to know how it works to use a hand crossbow and scimitar together? Does that need dual weapon fighting technique to use?
also would it be advisable to use the hand crossbow and scimitar combo for a gloom stalker ranger?
The hand crossbow has the ammunition property which means it needs an empty hand to load it. So you will need an artificer's repeating weapon infusion to get past that.
After that, you can wield both of them, and attack with either or both (with extra attack) with your action, but 2 weapon fighting only works with melee weapons. To make a bonus action attack with the crossbow, you will need crossbow expert feat.
Not sure what class you are going for, but probably be level 4 or 5 before this is online. Level 2 if you are variant human to start with feat and artificer to get infusion.
Both the hand crossbow and scimitar have the light property so you can use them one in each hand without needing a feat. Usually when you make a weapon attack you add your skill bonus to the damage with that weapon ie. your strength bonus to a greataxe damage or dexterity to a longbow shot, however when you dual wield you lose that bonus to the damage of your off hand weapon. This balances out because dual wielding lets you make an attack with your bonus action to improve your action economy. So in this case you would make an attack with one of your weapons to deal 1d6+dex damage, and your second attack would be with your bonus action and deal 1d6 damage with no modifiers.
There is a dual wielding feat that removes that negative as well as giving a +1 to ac which is quite nice. It also allows you to dual wield non light weapons like 2 warhammers, but that might not be so useful to you in this case
Both the hand crossbow and scimitar have the light property so you can use them one in each hand without needing a feat. Usually when you make a weapon attack you add your skill bonus to the damage with that weapon ie. your strength bonus to a greataxe damage or dexterity to a longbow shot, however when you dual wield you lose that bonus to the damage of your off hand weapon. This balances out because dual wielding lets you make an attack with your bonus action to improve your action economy. So in this case you would make an attack with one of your weapons to deal 1d6+dex damage, and your second attack would be with your bonus action and deal 1d6 damage with no modifiers.
There is a dual wielding feat that removes that negative as well as giving a +1 to ac which is quite nice. It also allows you to dual wield non light weapons like 2 warhammers, but that might not be so useful to you in this case
I hope all that make some sort of sense!
Both Two-Weapon Fighting and the Dual Wielder feat specifies melee weapons so neither will work with a hand-crossbow.
Thank you for the replies so far guys. So please correct me if I’m wrong, but Even off the bat from level 1 I can use both scimitar and hand crossbow but I can only shoot once with the crossbow (as it requires two hands to reload) then charge into combat with the scimitar?
It's more of an "either-or" kind of thing. You cannot use both in the same round. But that's just because the rules don't provide for it. I really don't see the harm in it from a balance standpoint, when compared to swinging two scimitars. I guess one is ranged and one is melee, so there's that, but this really isn't a big deal. I would talk to your DM because the idea of a crossbow in one hand and a sword in the other is pretty fun and evocative.
“Either/or” I can live with for the aesthetic of it.
again forgive my “newness” but would this set up better suit a gloom stalker ranger or an Eldritch Knight? By the way the race is Drow if that has any impact too?
Mechanically, it doesn't really matter between those two since the attack action grants both of them a second attack at level 5. You can shoot your hand crossbow with one hand and leave the other hand free for loading it, then close the distance on your enemy, and then draw your scimitar for your second attack. At that point, you are already back on track within the intended mechanics of the game. And by then you will be in melee combat, so you'll likely stick to melee weapons from then on out, at least with that enemy.
Between those two choices, I suggest you go with the one that appeals most to you.
gamewise, if you can only use one at a time, what’s the point of a hand crossbow? May as well use a normal crossbow Or heavy crossbow with more damage and then switch to a scimitar for melee right? Or am I missing something? Otherwise a hand crossbow is very redundant and doesn’t make sense if you can’t use another weapon with it?
They all have their uses. They are different tools for different purposes. I have seen several people express an interest in dual wielding hand crossbows and that runs into problems with the ammunition feature. My best suggestion to a DM who wants to help their player live their dual crossbow dream is to create a homebrew autoloading crossbow that can fire X number of times without reloading and does not have the ammunition property.
Repeating crossbows would literally solve it all wouldnt it?
So moving away from a crossbow and scimitar, as duel wielding really doesn’t seem like it works or happens with them - how would it play to duel wielding a scimitar and dagger or something like that?
Repeating crossbows would literally solve it all wouldnt it?
So moving away from a crossbow and scimitar, as duel wielding really doesn’t seem like it works or happens with them - how would it play to duel wielding a scimitar and dagger or something like that?
Much simpler, that's how.
A dagger is a "melee weapon" and is Light, meaning it's useable with Two-Weapon Fighting (even when thrown). It also doesn't have any weird properties requiring two hands to use it. So yes, you can start with a Scimitar and Dagger in each hand, Attack, and either attack with the Scimitar and Bonus Action throw or stab with the the Dagger.... or the reverse, start with a Dagger throw or stab, and then Bonus Action slash with the Scimitar. Or if you have Extra Attack, you could do something like Attack, slash with the Scimitar, throw the Dagger, Bonus Action slash with the Scimitar, or....
Lots of combos, very flexible. If you can get over it being a little different narrative flavor than offhand crossbow conveys, mechanically it is far easier to blend two one-handed melee weapons than it is to blend a one-handed melee weapon and a one-handed ranged weapon.
But again, Crossbow Expert does work to let you make a Bonus Action attack with your Hand Crossbow after using the Attack action to either slash with your Scimitar or shoot with the Hand Crossbow. It just involves some complicated drawing/sheathing/dropping micromanagement to make sure you have free hands available to satisfy the Ammunition property whenever you're making a crossbow shot, so it's really not worth the headache, unless your Crossbow is Repeating due to an infusion or as a bonafide magic item.
Repeating crossbows would literally solve it all wouldnt it?
So moving away from a crossbow and scimitar, as duel wielding really doesn’t seem like it works or happens with them - how would it play to duel wielding a scimitar and dagger or something like that?
I would go with Artificer for that setup. At level 2 you become a boss with a +1 Scimitar (Enhanced Weapon infusion) and a +1 Dagger (Returning Weapon Infusion) with the added bonus that if you choose to throw your dagger at somebody it automatically returns to your hand.
gamewise, if you can only use one at a time, what’s the point of a hand crossbow? May as well use a normal crossbow Or heavy crossbow with more damage and then switch to a scimitar for melee right? Or am I missing something? Otherwise a hand crossbow is very redundant and doesn’t make sense if you can’t use another weapon with it?
Hand xbow can be amazing with some feat support. Used singly, you /can/ shoot with your bonus action. With xbow expert you ignore the loading property, and you can shoot it again as a bonus action. That means you're getting an extra attack every round if you don't use your bonus action for something else.
What you /can't/ do is mix melee weapons and with a hand xbow. One hand xbow, all the time is winning with crossbow expert. When you add in sharpshooter it's even more silly.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Thank you. So is a hand crossbow more beneficial than a light crossbow then?
also if you had a hand crossbow and a scimitar for example - could you engage in combat at range with the crossbow and then switch it for a scimitar and advance forward towards the enemy and then engage in melee combat? Maybe this wouldnt work in one turn (maybe it would??) but would it work in two turns?
Hand crossbow /can/ be beneficial. For characters that do not have the crossbow expert feat or multi-attack, generally speaking, a light crossbow will serve them better. For specialized hand crossbow archery builds, you can do things that are not possible to do with a light crossbow.
Generally speaking, unless you are building around the hand crossbow, the light crossbow is better.
You can shoot your pre-loaded hand crossbow on round 1 and move into melee. You cannot swing the scimitar, because you did not make a /melee/ attack with a light weapon using your action. On round 2, you can swing your scimitar, and do nothing with the hand xbow because it's not loaded, and the hand xbow does not meet the requirements to make a bonus action attack for two weapon fighting. You cannot reload the hand xbow until your scimitar hand...no longer has a scimitar in it. You cannot fire the hand crossbow /and/ swing the scimitar in the same round at all.
Taking the crossbow expert feat changes this slightly. You now ignore the loading property which allows you to fire your crossbow multiple times in a round if your class has a feature that allows it to do so. It also allows you to attack with a one handed weapon (such as a scimitar, or the hand crossbow itself) and then fire a hand crossbow you are holding as a bonus action. What crossbow expert does /not/ do is allow you to load the crossbow without a free hand. You ignore the loading property...but you still have to load it because it has the ammunition property. The ammunition property requires a free hand.
Now, technically, you can pull some shenanigans with your item interactions. According to the rules (assuming you have crossbow expert) you can in round 1 swing your scimitar, fire your pre-loaded hand crossbow, and as a free action drop your scimitar on the ground. On round two, you can load your hand crossbow because you have an empty hand, use your item interaction to pick up your scimitar, attack with it, then attack with the hand crossbow, and as a free action, drop the scimitar and start the process over again.
The rules say you can do that. As a DM, I would laugh at you and say absolutely not at my table. There's a zero percent chance I am letting someone get away with item-interaction cheese to violate the action economy, whether I think it's overpowered or not. I might work with someone and come up with a homebrew solution that lets them do that, but as soon as someone tries to quote the RAW with some cheesy explanation, I am going to disallow it. I hate item interaction/action economy cheese on general principle.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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Hey,
I’m new to the game and still trying to learn, and I’m creating a character and aesthetically in my mind he is rocking a hand crossbow in one hand and a scimitar in the other, firing off bolts and slashing throats with swift precision in battle.
anyhow, just wanting to know how it works to use a hand crossbow and scimitar together? Does that need dual weapon fighting technique to use?
also would it be advisable to use the hand crossbow and scimitar combo for a gloom stalker ranger?
many thanks for the support :)
The hand crossbow has the ammunition property which means it needs an empty hand to load it. So you will need an artificer's repeating weapon infusion to get past that.
After that, you can wield both of them, and attack with either or both (with extra attack) with your action, but 2 weapon fighting only works with melee weapons. To make a bonus action attack with the crossbow, you will need crossbow expert feat.
Not sure what class you are going for, but probably be level 4 or 5 before this is online. Level 2 if you are variant human to start with feat and artificer to get infusion.
Both the hand crossbow and scimitar have the light property so you can use them one in each hand without needing a feat. Usually when you make a weapon attack you add your skill bonus to the damage with that weapon ie. your strength bonus to a greataxe damage or dexterity to a longbow shot, however when you dual wield you lose that bonus to the damage of your off hand weapon. This balances out because dual wielding lets you make an attack with your bonus action to improve your action economy. So in this case you would make an attack with one of your weapons to deal 1d6+dex damage, and your second attack would be with your bonus action and deal 1d6 damage with no modifiers.
There is a dual wielding feat that removes that negative as well as giving a +1 to ac which is quite nice. It also allows you to dual wield non light weapons like 2 warhammers, but that might not be so useful to you in this case
I hope all that make some sort of sense!
Both Two-Weapon Fighting and the Dual Wielder feat specifies melee weapons so neither will work with a hand-crossbow.
Thank you for the replies so far guys. So please correct me if I’m wrong, but Even off the bat from level 1 I can use both scimitar and hand crossbow but I can only shoot once with the crossbow (as it requires two hands to reload) then charge into combat with the scimitar?
It's more of an "either-or" kind of thing. You cannot use both in the same round. But that's just because the rules don't provide for it. I really don't see the harm in it from a balance standpoint, when compared to swinging two scimitars. I guess one is ranged and one is melee, so there's that, but this really isn't a big deal. I would talk to your DM because the idea of a crossbow in one hand and a sword in the other is pretty fun and evocative.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
“Either/or” I can live with for the aesthetic of it.
again forgive my “newness” but would this set up better suit a gloom stalker ranger or an Eldritch Knight? By the way the race is Drow if that has any impact too?
many thanks.
Mechanically, it doesn't really matter between those two since the attack action grants both of them a second attack at level 5. You can shoot your hand crossbow with one hand and leave the other hand free for loading it, then close the distance on your enemy, and then draw your scimitar for your second attack. At that point, you are already back on track within the intended mechanics of the game. And by then you will be in melee combat, so you'll likely stick to melee weapons from then on out, at least with that enemy.
Between those two choices, I suggest you go with the one that appeals most to you.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Thank you you’ve been very helpful.
gamewise, if you can only use one at a time, what’s the point of a hand crossbow? May as well use a normal crossbow Or heavy crossbow with more damage and then switch to a scimitar for melee right? Or am I missing something? Otherwise a hand crossbow is very redundant and doesn’t make sense if you can’t use another weapon with it?
They all have their uses. They are different tools for different purposes. I have seen several people express an interest in dual wielding hand crossbows and that runs into problems with the ammunition feature. My best suggestion to a DM who wants to help their player live their dual crossbow dream is to create a homebrew autoloading crossbow that can fire X number of times without reloading and does not have the ammunition property.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
3.5 had repeating hand crossbows. Players have never really accepted that 5E hand crossbows aren’t the same, we crave them like bucklers :/
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Repeating crossbows would literally solve it all wouldnt it?
So moving away from a crossbow and scimitar, as duel wielding really doesn’t seem like it works or happens with them - how would it play to duel wielding a scimitar and dagger or something like that?
Much simpler, that's how.
A dagger is a "melee weapon" and is Light, meaning it's useable with Two-Weapon Fighting (even when thrown). It also doesn't have any weird properties requiring two hands to use it. So yes, you can start with a Scimitar and Dagger in each hand, Attack, and either attack with the Scimitar and Bonus Action throw or stab with the the Dagger.... or the reverse, start with a Dagger throw or stab, and then Bonus Action slash with the Scimitar. Or if you have Extra Attack, you could do something like Attack, slash with the Scimitar, throw the Dagger, Bonus Action slash with the Scimitar, or....
Lots of combos, very flexible. If you can get over it being a little different narrative flavor than offhand crossbow conveys, mechanically it is far easier to blend two one-handed melee weapons than it is to blend a one-handed melee weapon and a one-handed ranged weapon.
But again, Crossbow Expert does work to let you make a Bonus Action attack with your Hand Crossbow after using the Attack action to either slash with your Scimitar or shoot with the Hand Crossbow. It just involves some complicated drawing/sheathing/dropping micromanagement to make sure you have free hands available to satisfy the Ammunition property whenever you're making a crossbow shot, so it's really not worth the headache, unless your Crossbow is Repeating due to an infusion or as a bonafide magic item.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I would go with Artificer for that setup. At level 2 you become a boss with a +1 Scimitar (Enhanced Weapon infusion) and a +1 Dagger (Returning Weapon Infusion) with the added bonus that if you choose to throw your dagger at somebody it automatically returns to your hand.
Thank you for the replies, very helpful.
I think I will drop the crossbow and go with two melee weapons instead as a Drow gloom stalker or Eldritch Knight.
Hand xbow can be amazing with some feat support. Used singly, you /can/ shoot with your bonus action. With xbow expert you ignore the loading property, and you can shoot it again as a bonus action. That means you're getting an extra attack every round if you don't use your bonus action for something else.
What you /can't/ do is mix melee weapons and with a hand xbow. One hand xbow, all the time is winning with crossbow expert. When you add in sharpshooter it's even more silly.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Thank you. So is a hand crossbow more beneficial than a light crossbow then?
also if you had a hand crossbow and a scimitar for example - could you engage in combat at range with the crossbow and then switch it for a scimitar and advance forward towards the enemy and then engage in melee combat? Maybe this wouldnt work in one turn (maybe it would??) but would it work in two turns?
That is precisely the scenario I described in post #8
"Not all those who wander are lost"
TexasDevin I do apologise, an oversight on my part. That’s very true! Hmmm ok food for thought from an aesthetic standpoint.
thank you everyone for the input and advice, I’m truly grateful 😊
Hand crossbow /can/ be beneficial. For characters that do not have the crossbow expert feat or multi-attack, generally speaking, a light crossbow will serve them better. For specialized hand crossbow archery builds, you can do things that are not possible to do with a light crossbow.
Generally speaking, unless you are building around the hand crossbow, the light crossbow is better.
You can shoot your pre-loaded hand crossbow on round 1 and move into melee. You cannot swing the scimitar, because you did not make a /melee/ attack with a light weapon using your action. On round 2, you can swing your scimitar, and do nothing with the hand xbow because it's not loaded, and the hand xbow does not meet the requirements to make a bonus action attack for two weapon fighting. You cannot reload the hand xbow until your scimitar hand...no longer has a scimitar in it. You cannot fire the hand crossbow /and/ swing the scimitar in the same round at all.
Taking the crossbow expert feat changes this slightly. You now ignore the loading property which allows you to fire your crossbow multiple times in a round if your class has a feature that allows it to do so. It also allows you to attack with a one handed weapon (such as a scimitar, or the hand crossbow itself) and then fire a hand crossbow you are holding as a bonus action. What crossbow expert does /not/ do is allow you to load the crossbow without a free hand. You ignore the loading property...but you still have to load it because it has the ammunition property. The ammunition property requires a free hand.
Now, technically, you can pull some shenanigans with your item interactions. According to the rules (assuming you have crossbow expert) you can in round 1 swing your scimitar, fire your pre-loaded hand crossbow, and as a free action drop your scimitar on the ground. On round two, you can load your hand crossbow because you have an empty hand, use your item interaction to pick up your scimitar, attack with it, then attack with the hand crossbow, and as a free action, drop the scimitar and start the process over again.
The rules say you can do that. As a DM, I would laugh at you and say absolutely not at my table. There's a zero percent chance I am letting someone get away with item-interaction cheese to violate the action economy, whether I think it's overpowered or not. I might work with someone and come up with a homebrew solution that lets them do that, but as soon as someone tries to quote the RAW with some cheesy explanation, I am going to disallow it. I hate item interaction/action economy cheese on general principle.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha