Playing a sorcerer/Warlock Hexblade/Divine Soul build.
I attempted to use the feature "Favored by the gods" to add a bonus to my attack roll after DM said it failed, which is exactly how that ability is supposed to be used, but he lashed out saying that there's "no other ability that lets you do that." As in, there's no other ability that lets you add onto a dice roll after you know that it's failed.
Do you think this makes the ability unfair? Do you know of any other abilities that let you do that? I felt a little annoyed about it, but I agreed that I would only use the ability before I knew if an attack succeeded or failed because I didn't want to cause a scene. I still feel a bit annoyed and am trying to find a reason for why the ability is still fair.
The ability literally says you can use it if you fail/miss - infact it explicitly starts with "if you fail a saving throw or miss with an attack roll" so you cannot use it if you don't know whether you've failed/missed or not. You can also only use it once per short rest. It's not unfair at all.
And who cares if there's another feature that has the same mechanics or not? Favored by the Gods is a RAW mechanic that lets you add dice to failed rolls - so there is obviously a feature that does it.
That said - DM's rule is DM's rule. If they want it to work that way they can. It would be wrong - but they can. Also - using forum posts to argue with your DM is typically seen as bad form.
War Wizard, top of my head, also lets you do this with Deflecting Shroud. Pretty sure several (sub)class features let you do this. Your DM is just being pissy and needs a Snickers. I always hate to say this, but DMs are people and can not only be very wrong but also whiny. 😬
edit: Soulknife Rogue
Psi-Bolstered Knack.When your nonpsionic training fails you, your psionic power can help: if you fail an ability check using a skill or tool with which you have proficiency, you can roll one Psionic Energy die and add the number rolled to the check, potentially turning failure into success. You expend the die only if the roll succeeds.
Homing Strikes. If you make an attack roll with your Psychic Blades and miss the target, you can roll one Psionic Energy die and add the number rolled to the attack roll. If this causes the attack to hit, you expend the Psionic Energy die.
-
What’s funny is that your Hexblade/Sorcerer combo is the way more egregious “thing” in this scenario from a balance perspective but the Favored by the Gods ability is what gets the complaint 🤔 (I mean no insult by that!)
Once per short rest, if you miss with an attack or fail an ability check or saving throw, you can gain a bonus equal to the number of allies you can see within 30 ft.
Playing a sorcerer/Warlock Hexblade/Divine Soul build.
I attempted to use the feature "Favored by the gods" to add a bonus to my attack roll after DM said it failed, which is exactly how that ability is supposed to be used, but he lashed out saying that there's "no other ability that lets you do that." As in, there's no other ability that lets you add onto a dice roll after you know that it's failed.
Do you think this makes the ability unfair? Do you know of any other abilities that let you do that? I felt a little annoyed about it, but I agreed that I would only use the ability before I knew if an attack succeeded or failed because I didn't want to cause a scene. I still feel a bit annoyed and am trying to find a reason for why the ability is still fair.
Any help would be appreciated!
All abilities in the game with a trigger like that inform you of the trigger. If you have an ability that works when you fail, you know when you fail - and you know in time to use the ability. In fact, far from being unique, every Sorcerer in the game gains such an ability at level 5, if you're playing with Tasha's:
MAGICAL GUIDANCE 5th-level sorcerer feature You can tap into your inner wellspring of magic to try to conjure success from failure. When you make an ability check that fails, you can spend 1 sorcery point to reroll the d20, and you must use the new roll, potentially turning the fail- ure into a success.
If you want an example for attack rolls, similarly every Monk in the game has an ability to become more accurate in response to failing an attack roll - and your Divine Soul ability is worse than the universal Monk one:
FOCUSED AIM 5th-level monk feature When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 ki points to increase your attack roll by 2 for each of these ki points you spend, potentially turn- ing the miss into a hit.
Sounds like the DM was just having a bad day. After 2 attack rolls are made, you potentially know the exact armour class of a monster, so really not sure why they care so much.
I think what Emmber said really sticks out to me... not only does the ability work after a failed attack or saving throw, it's specifically triggered by failing that attack or saving throw... it's literally against the rules to use it otherwise.
If your DM decides that they don't like the ability and think that it would be more fair for it to function differently in their game that's one thing, but if they just don't u nderstand the ability and are forcing it to function differently out of sheer ignorance it could be worth talking to them about it. I do want to commend you for just swallowing your pride and continuing the rest of the session without drama, and hopefully your DM will appreciate that as well and be willing to work with you. That said... even if you are forced to use it as the DM demands, it's still a fairly useful ability, especially for something you snag right at level 1.
Favored by the Gods is a Divine Soul Sorcerer power, and you were playing a Divine Soul Sorcerer Hexblade Warlock multi-class. The DM said you failed, that means you failed to hit, and the power expressly states that if you "miss with an attack roll, you can roll 2d4 and add it to the total, possibly changing the outcome."
Someone wasn't being fair, and it wasn't you.
Other people have said pretty much the same thing. It may have been an honest mistake, but being Favored by the Gods is perfectly fine for your character.
Playing a sorcerer/Warlock Hexblade/Divine Soul build.
I attempted to use the feature "Favored by the gods" to add a bonus to my attack roll after DM said it failed, which is exactly how that ability is supposed to be used, but he lashed out saying that there's "no other ability that lets you do that." As in, there's no other ability that lets you add onto a dice roll after you know that it's failed.
Do you think this makes the ability unfair? Do you know of any other abilities that let you do that? I felt a little annoyed about it, but I agreed that I would only use the ability before I knew if an attack succeeded or failed because I didn't want to cause a scene. I still feel a bit annoyed and am trying to find a reason for why the ability is still fair.
Any help would be appreciated!
It's not unfair, and it's supposed to work exactly the way you used it. One thing you didn't mention in your post is whether the DM let you use the ability and just complained about it, or if they actually decided to change the rules so it works differently in their game. If it's the former, all I can suggest is pointing out that it's a limited-use ability, and not the only one in the game that triggers on a failure(using the examples provided by others in this thread). If they insist on changing the rule, then they should give you the chance to re-spec your character since they're changing the rules on you post-CharGen.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Playing a sorcerer/Warlock Hexblade/Divine Soul build.
I attempted to use the feature "Favored by the gods" to add a bonus to my attack roll after DM said it failed, which is exactly how that ability is supposed to be used, but he lashed out saying that there's "no other ability that lets you do that." As in, there's no other ability that lets you add onto a dice roll after you know that it's failed.
Do you think this makes the ability unfair? Do you know of any other abilities that let you do that? I felt a little annoyed about it, but I agreed that I would only use the ability before I knew if an attack succeeded or failed because I didn't want to cause a scene. I still feel a bit annoyed and am trying to find a reason for why the ability is still fair.
Any help would be appreciated!
The ability literally says you can use it if you fail/miss - infact it explicitly starts with "if you fail a saving throw or miss with an attack roll" so you cannot use it if you don't know whether you've failed/missed or not. You can also only use it once per short rest. It's not unfair at all.
And who cares if there's another feature that has the same mechanics or not? Favored by the Gods is a RAW mechanic that lets you add dice to failed rolls - so there is obviously a feature that does it.
That said - DM's rule is DM's rule. If they want it to work that way they can. It would be wrong - but they can.
Also - using forum posts to argue with your DM is typically seen as bad form.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
War Wizard, top of my head, also lets you do this with Deflecting Shroud. Pretty sure several (sub)class features let you do this. Your DM is just being pissy and needs a Snickers. I always hate to say this, but DMs are people and can not only be very wrong but also whiny. 😬
edit: Soulknife Rogue
Psi-Bolstered Knack. When your nonpsionic training fails you, your psionic power can help: if you fail an ability check using a skill or tool with which you have proficiency, you can roll one Psionic Energy die and add the number rolled to the check, potentially turning failure into success. You expend the die only if the roll succeeds.
Homing Strikes. If you make an attack roll with your Psychic Blades and miss the target, you can roll one Psionic Energy die and add the number rolled to the attack roll. If this causes the attack to hit, you expend the Psionic Energy die.
-
What’s funny is that your Hexblade/Sorcerer combo is the way more egregious “thing” in this scenario from a balance perspective but the Favored by the Gods ability is what gets the complaint 🤔 (I mean no insult by that!)
Once per short rest, if you miss with an attack or fail an ability check or saving throw, you can gain a bonus equal to the number of allies you can see within 30 ft.
All abilities in the game with a trigger like that inform you of the trigger. If you have an ability that works when you fail, you know when you fail - and you know in time to use the ability. In fact, far from being unique, every Sorcerer in the game gains such an ability at level 5, if you're playing with Tasha's:
MAGICAL GUIDANCE
5th-level sorcerer feature
You can tap into your inner wellspring of magic to
try to conjure success from failure. When you make
an ability check that fails, you can spend 1
sorcery point to reroll the d20, and you must
use the new roll, potentially turning the fail-
ure into a success.
If you want an example for attack rolls, similarly every Monk in the game has an ability to become more accurate in response to failing an attack roll - and your Divine Soul ability is worse than the universal Monk one:
FOCUSED AIM
5th-level monk feature
When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend
1 to 3 ki points to increase your attack roll by 2 for
each of these ki points you spend, potentially turn-
ing the miss into a hit.
Sounds like the DM was just having a bad day. After 2 attack rolls are made, you potentially know the exact armour class of a monster, so really not sure why they care so much.
I think what Emmber said really sticks out to me... not only does the ability work after a failed attack or saving throw, it's specifically triggered by failing that attack or saving throw... it's literally against the rules to use it otherwise.
If your DM decides that they don't like the ability and think that it would be more fair for it to function differently in their game that's one thing, but if they just don't u nderstand the ability and are forcing it to function differently out of sheer ignorance it could be worth talking to them about it. I do want to commend you for just swallowing your pride and continuing the rest of the session without drama, and hopefully your DM will appreciate that as well and be willing to work with you. That said... even if you are forced to use it as the DM demands, it's still a fairly useful ability, especially for something you snag right at level 1.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Favored by the Gods is a Divine Soul Sorcerer power, and you were playing a Divine Soul Sorcerer Hexblade Warlock multi-class. The DM said you failed, that means you failed to hit, and the power expressly states that if you "miss with an attack roll, you can roll 2d4 and add it to the total, possibly changing the outcome."
Someone wasn't being fair, and it wasn't you.
Other people have said pretty much the same thing. It may have been an honest mistake, but being Favored by the Gods is perfectly fine for your character.
<Insert clever signature here>
It's not unfair, and it's supposed to work exactly the way you used it. One thing you didn't mention in your post is whether the DM let you use the ability and just complained about it, or if they actually decided to change the rules so it works differently in their game. If it's the former, all I can suggest is pointing out that it's a limited-use ability, and not the only one in the game that triggers on a failure(using the examples provided by others in this thread). If they insist on changing the rule, then they should give you the chance to re-spec your character since they're changing the rules on you post-CharGen.