Could anyone please clarify if taking the the Magic Initiate feat count as having the Spellcasting class feature (for the purpose of meeting the requirements of other feats)?
For example can my Champion fighter take Magic initiate at lvl 4 and then take Eldritch Adept later?
Or is this just poor phrasing of certain UA feats' requirements?
Thanks for answering. Quick side-question, I know of no other feat in core rules have the requirement of Spellcasting or Pact Magic, what would you say is the reason for Eldritch Adept (UA) to have such an requirement?
Most likely because of the flavor text in the 1st paragraph of the Eldritch Invocations class features.
Eldritch Invocations
In your study of occult lore, you have unearthed eldritch invocations, fragments of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability.
It kinda presupposes that a character has studied enough magic to have a whole chart for spell slots and everything.
Prerequisite: Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature
Studying occult lore, you have unlocked eldritch power within yourself: you learn one Eldritch Invocation option of your choice from the warlock class. If the invocation has a prerequisite, you can choose that invocation only if you’re a warlock and only if you meet the prerequisite.
Whenever you gain a level, you can replace the invocation with another one from the warlock class.
When you look at Agonizing Blast, there is a printed prerequisite... which means if you satisfy it, you don't really satisfy taking it with Elritch Adept unless you're a Warlock:
Agonizing Blast
Prerequisite:eldritch blast cantrip
When you cast eldritch blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit.
In fact... the only invocations that a non-Warlock is eligible for include:
Armor of Shadows
Beast Speech
Beguiling Influence
Devil's Sight
Eldritch Sight
Eyes of the Rune Keeper
Fiendish Vigor
Gaze of Two Minds
Mask of Many Faces
Misty Visions
Thief of Five Fates (useless without Warlock levels)
They are no joke, but it is less clear to me what the unbalancing risk is of allowing a non caster access to any of them. Armor of Shadows and Fiendish Vigor are the only two with combat implications, and are probably not worth a feat. Oh, and Devil’s Sight, THATS actually probably the main pull.
I know it’s only UA, but not a fan of mechanical limitations which are justified by only flavor text. Bladesinger is either a balanced subclass or it isn’t, regardless of whether you’re an elf, same with battlerager and dwarves, and same with invocations and warlocks, if you’re going to make them feat-eligible at all. If you can learn Rituals with Ritual Caster by dabbling in the arcane with a feat as a Barbarian, you should be able to pick up an invocation with a similar investment by dabbling in the eldritch. (Or, this feat just shouldn’t exist at all, because really Devil’s Sight is just TOO good to unleash on the world).
Where does it say that Racial Spellcasting doesn't count. All I see is "Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature". If it was limited to Spell Casters, why not just say that?
It doesn’t mean spellcasting as in “the ability to cast spells,” it means “Spellcasting,” the class feature. So they did “just say that,” only more technically. They said “you must have one of the following two features: Spellcasting, or Pact Magic. Only they just phrased it differently. And races don’t give “features,” they give “traits.” So a race cannot grant features at all.
Alright, then what is the difference between Spellcasting and "the ability to cast at least one spell" (like in Spell Sniper). Would Racial Magic work for that case?
You see the confusion I'm having is that I can't find a definition of "Spellcasting". I see "spellcaster" in there. But if the exacting phrasing is "Spellcasting" and a racial trait needs to use components and has a spellcasting modifier, why doesn't it apply?
And, I am not arguing with you, I really do thank you for your answer. I'm just a little confused as to why something so simple isn't defined in black and white or why they just don't use the same terminology.
Spellcasting is the name of a feature that is given to certain classes often, but not always, at level 1. Every class that has spellcasting will have this feature listed in their class features chart.
And classes which cast spells without this feature (such as a Way of Shadows or Four Elements Monk) are not "spellcasters," because they lack that named feature.
Spellcasting is a class feature given to Artificers, Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards at 1st level, to Rangers and Paladins at 2nd level, and to Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights at 3rd level. It is defined differently for each class as it works differently for each class. It is the actual name of the class feature, much like Pact Magic is the name of the class feature given to Warlocks at 1st level and to Profane Souls at 3rd level. It is defined as a class feature listed by name. A racial trait that grants spells and uses a spellcasting ability modifier (like a Tiefling’s Infernal Legacy trait) is not the same thing.
Is a Tiefling trait named “Infernal Legacy” a feature named “Spellcasting?” No.
Is a High Elf trait named “Cantrip” a feature named “Spellcasting?” No.
Is a Water Genasi trait named “Call of the Wave” a feature named “Spellcasting?” No.
Is a Sorcerer feature named “Spellcasting” a feature named “Spellcasting?” Yes.
Yes, racial magic works with Spell Sniper because Spell Sniper only requires “the ability to cast at least one spell.” Magic Initiate does not work with racial magic because it requires either the “Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature.”
Alright, then what is the difference between Spellcasting and "the ability to cast at least one spell" (like in Spell Sniper). Would Racial Magic work for that case?
You see the confusion I'm having is that I can't find a definition of "Spellcasting". I see "spellcaster" in there. But if the exacting phrasing is "Spellcasting" and a racial trait needs to use components and has a spellcasting modifier, why doesn't it apply?
And, I am not arguing with you, I really do thank you for your answer. I'm just a little confused as to why something so simple isn't defined in black and white or why they just don't use the same terminology.
It's a feature named Spellcasting. Every class in the game except for Barbarian, Monk, Fighter, Rogue, Paladin, Ranger, and Warlock gets it at level 1. Paladins and Rangers get it at level 2. Eldritch Knight Fighter and Arcane Trickster Rogue get it at level 3. Barbarians, Monks, and Warlocks never get it, not even with subclasses. In all cases, the class or subclass tells you when you get it, and names it by name.
I was recently looking through the feats from Unearthed Arcana, (which I know is only draft playtest material) and saw this feat; https://www.dndbeyond.com/feats/eldritch-adept-ua.
Could anyone please clarify if taking the the Magic Initiate feat count as having the Spellcasting class feature (for the purpose of meeting the requirements of other feats)?
For example can my Champion fighter take Magic initiate at lvl 4 and then take Eldritch Adept later?
Or is this just poor phrasing of certain UA feats' requirements?
No, feats like Magic Initiate do not grant either the Spellcasting nor Pact Magic features. Racial Spellcasting also doesn’t count.
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Thanks for answering. Quick side-question, I know of no other feat in core rules have the requirement of Spellcasting or Pact Magic, what would you say is the reason for Eldritch Adept (UA) to have such an requirement?
Most likely because of the flavor text in the 1st paragraph of the Eldritch Invocations class features.
It kinda presupposes that a character has studied enough magic to have a whole chart for spell slots and everything.
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Thanks IamSposta. I guess it also makes sense for balance purposes.
The wording is different ot spell sniper ("Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell") so the meaning is different.
I believe the balance purposes are based around Eldritch Blast. It prevent you from getting both agonizing blast and Eldritch Blast from just feats.
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In a weird way, the feat already prohibits that.
When you look at Agonizing Blast, there is a printed prerequisite... which means if you satisfy it, you don't really satisfy taking it with Elritch Adept unless you're a Warlock:
In fact... the only invocations that a non-Warlock is eligible for include:
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yeah, but those eligible Invocations are no joke.
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They are no joke, but it is less clear to me what the unbalancing risk is of allowing a non caster access to any of them. Armor of Shadows and Fiendish Vigor are the only two with combat implications, and are probably not worth a feat. Oh, and Devil’s Sight, THATS actually probably the main pull.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Like I originally said, I think it’s because of the flavor text attached to Eldritch Invocations.
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I know it’s only UA, but not a fan of mechanical limitations which are justified by only flavor text. Bladesinger is either a balanced subclass or it isn’t, regardless of whether you’re an elf, same with battlerager and dwarves, and same with invocations and warlocks, if you’re going to make them feat-eligible at all. If you can learn Rituals with Ritual Caster by dabbling in the arcane with a feat as a Barbarian, you should be able to pick up an invocation with a similar investment by dabbling in the eldritch. (Or, this feat just shouldn’t exist at all, because really Devil’s Sight is just TOO good to unleash on the world).
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While not a combat relevant ability, Mask of Many Faces would also be a very popular choice.
Where does it say that Racial Spellcasting doesn't count. All I see is "Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature". If it was limited to Spell Casters, why not just say that?
It doesn’t mean spellcasting as in “the ability to cast spells,” it means “Spellcasting,” the class feature. So they did “just say that,” only more technically. They said “you must have one of the following two features: Spellcasting, or Pact Magic. Only they just phrased it differently. And races don’t give “features,” they give “traits.” So a race cannot grant features at all.
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Alright, then what is the difference between Spellcasting and "the ability to cast at least one spell" (like in Spell Sniper). Would Racial Magic work for that case?
You see the confusion I'm having is that I can't find a definition of "Spellcasting". I see "spellcaster" in there. But if the exacting phrasing is "Spellcasting" and a racial trait needs to use components and has a spellcasting modifier, why doesn't it apply?
And, I am not arguing with you, I really do thank you for your answer. I'm just a little confused as to why something so simple isn't defined in black and white or why they just don't use the same terminology.
Spellcasting is the name of a feature that is given to certain classes often, but not always, at level 1. Every class that has spellcasting will have this feature listed in their class features chart.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
And classes which cast spells without this feature (such as a Way of Shadows or Four Elements Monk) are not "spellcasters," because they lack that named feature.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Spellcasting is a class feature given to Artificers, Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards at 1st level, to Rangers and Paladins at 2nd level, and to Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights at 3rd level. It is defined differently for each class as it works differently for each class. It is the actual name of the class feature, much like Pact Magic is the name of the class feature given to Warlocks at 1st level and to Profane Souls at 3rd level. It is defined as a class feature listed by name. A racial trait that grants spells and uses a spellcasting ability modifier (like a Tiefling’s Infernal Legacy trait) is not the same thing.
Yes, racial magic works with Spell Sniper because Spell Sniper only requires “the ability to cast at least one spell.” Magic Initiate does not work with racial magic because it requires either the “Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature.”
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It's a feature named Spellcasting. Every class in the game except for Barbarian, Monk, Fighter, Rogue, Paladin, Ranger, and Warlock gets it at level 1. Paladins and Rangers get it at level 2. Eldritch Knight Fighter and Arcane Trickster Rogue get it at level 3. Barbarians, Monks, and Warlocks never get it, not even with subclasses. In all cases, the class or subclass tells you when you get it, and names it by name.