Hello, Dndbeyond! I just was thinking about the absurd things you can do with bards, and I was wondering if this would work RAW.
At 10th level, a valor bard can pick up Find Greater Steed. This spell has a very easily abusable clause that states “While mounted on [the mount], you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target the mount.”
At 18th level, said bard can also get the 9th level spell Shapechange, which essentially lets one wild-shape into any creature of challenge rating equal to or lower than your level.
If I am not mistaken, this would allow for a valor bard 18 / paladin 2 to summon a mount, and then turn the mount into an adult red dragon and themself into a pit fiend, while still retaining all class abilities.
Does this work? Because it seems absolutely ridiculous.
I think that you can turn yourself and your mount into ancient brass dragons and then use the dragon's shapechange action to turn into something that can ride your mount.
1) apparently the general ruling (which I disagree with) is that only spells with range self that don't then cause you to affect other creature's can be duplicated with find steed. So true polymorph is out as it can target others if it is the case. The spell doesn't say a spell that is only capable of targeting yourself (like twined spell says only spells that can target exactly 1 target.... So spells that can target multiple people only if upcast are legal at the default level).... Just that you are the caster and that it targets only you. That said it could be argued that cause it grants you abilities that target other creatures or doesn't work (similar to most of the reasons I see why aura of vitality doesn't work.... Sure the spell is self only but it grants you ability to heal others as a bonus action therefore the spell as a whole doesn't target yourself only..... I disagree personally but this is the rulings I usually see regarding spells and find steed)
2) as in many things it comes down to the dm of it works out not. I think if it works at all, it works as you propose cause the mount isn't casting the spell..... It has no control over the form being chosen. I view it as the spell being copied. And as in magic (different game I know but same publisher) if a spell is copied.... Even if you choose new targets it retains all modes/choices of the original spell apart from the new target. Ergo you pick dragon, which is a legal choice for your character, the spell is duplicated to the mount. Now at this point you have now turned your mount into a high cr creature and you could have someone else cast true polymorph directly on it to maintain a powerful form indefinitely.
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Hello, Dndbeyond! I just was thinking about the absurd things you can do with bards, and I was wondering if this would work RAW.
At 10th level, a valor bard can pick up Find Greater Steed. This spell has a very easily abusable clause that states “While mounted on [the mount], you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target the mount.”
At 18th level, said bard can also get the 9th level spell Shapechange, which essentially lets one wild-shape into any creature of challenge rating equal to or lower than your level.
If I am not mistaken, this would allow for a valor bard 18 / paladin 2 to summon a mount, and then turn the mount into an adult red dragon and themself into a pit fiend, while still retaining all class abilities.
Does this work? Because it seems absolutely ridiculous.
No, for the reason that both you and the mount would have to turn into the same kind of creature.
But that’s still very powerful. A sorcerer could twin a polymorph to similar effect. Once characters are 20th level, crazy things can happen.
I think that you can turn yourself and your mount into ancient brass dragons and then use the dragon's shapechange action to turn into something that can ride your mount.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Bards can also access true polymorph which can last indefinitely while maintaining any spellcasting the chosen form may have
Wouldn't the mount turn into a creature equal to it's CR or lower, or in other words, no huge gain in power?
1) apparently the general ruling (which I disagree with) is that only spells with range self that don't then cause you to affect other creature's can be duplicated with find steed. So true polymorph is out as it can target others if it is the case. The spell doesn't say a spell that is only capable of targeting yourself (like twined spell says only spells that can target exactly 1 target.... So spells that can target multiple people only if upcast are legal at the default level).... Just that you are the caster and that it targets only you. That said it could be argued that cause it grants you abilities that target other creatures or doesn't work (similar to most of the reasons I see why aura of vitality doesn't work.... Sure the spell is self only but it grants you ability to heal others as a bonus action therefore the spell as a whole doesn't target yourself only..... I disagree personally but this is the rulings I usually see regarding spells and find steed)
2) as in many things it comes down to the dm of it works out not. I think if it works at all, it works as you propose cause the mount isn't casting the spell..... It has no control over the form being chosen. I view it as the spell being copied. And as in magic (different game I know but same publisher) if a spell is copied.... Even if you choose new targets it retains all modes/choices of the original spell apart from the new target. Ergo you pick dragon, which is a legal choice for your character, the spell is duplicated to the mount. Now at this point you have now turned your mount into a high cr creature and you could have someone else cast true polymorph directly on it to maintain a powerful form indefinitely.