We were just discussing in our game whether weapons would be allowed in a fancy party and I pointed out that this is a world where magic exists, an unarmed Wizard who knows Fireball is much more dangerous than a squad of armed soldiers. For such occasions, are there any in-game methods for creating an Antimagic Field for a specific area? You could cast the spell (which is centered on a person and has a very small range) or hire a Beholder (or Beholders) to attend the party if they were so inclined but it seems like there should be some way to prevent hostile (or any) spellcasting in an area. Does this exist?
Well assuming the dinner party disarms the wizard of his focus and doesn't have bat st*t or sulfur lying around then they don't have to worry about fireball at least.
Though there are plenty of spell they the wizard might actually be able to cast. If they have armed guards it wouldn't be bad to also have a mage with counterspell ready.
If you really want antimagic and this party is sufficiently rich, you could just homebrew it (mind you such an item or permanent source of antimagic would cost more than a large city).
- all weapons, offensive magic items, focuses and spell components left at the door. Searched and scanned by magics if the guest is not very prestigious.
- several abjuration specialists hired from the local mage guild, buffing the VIP hosts with protections and scanning the room from balconies with counterspell and other anti-magics ready.
- physical guards to keep the peace and punish any who try anything.
- a conjuration specialist hanging beside the most important VIP ready to dimension door them out of there at the first sign of trouble, or equivalent magical escapes.
An actual antimagic field might actually make things worse, since it would also shut down most methods of defence or escape.
Well assuming the dinner party disarms the wizard of his focus and doesn't have bat st*t or sulfur lying around then they don't have to worry about fireball at least.
Though there are plenty of spell they the wizard might actually be able to cast. If they have armed guards it wouldn't be bad to also have a mage with counterspell ready.
If you really want antimagic and this party is sufficiently rich, you could just homebrew it (mind you such an item or permanent source of antimagic would cost more than a large city).
If it is a one-shot device and the resulting field is not portable, not sure why it would cost more than a large city. It could be hard to make (and in fact if easy to make, definitely would not cost as much as a large city).
It mimics an 8th level spell effect. If it is 1 time use then it is a very rare magic item worth at least 25k gp. If it can be used repeatedly it would be legendary and worth at least 100k gp or up to 500k gp.
A small castle costs 50k and a large castle cost 500k. So I stand by my assessment. Such items would be considered extreme treasures at least.
Whereas I see a large city being the equivalent of London or Paris, which even in medieval times and most definitely into the renaissance had a lot more value than just the construction costs of the castle. London or Versailles/Paris or Madrid had the entire budget of their respective empires funneled into construction.
But I was thinking one shot, immovable after deployment item.
Oh, no. I was talking large for medieval times city (not to mention full of mostly 1-2 story buildings made of stone and wood). Not a modern big city worth hundreds of billions (trillions? It is hard to measure that high) of dollars.
OP seemed to be wanting either a reusable or continuous effect. And either way, a 25000gp consumable is still very expensive.
It would definitely be cheaper to hire some mages for a day.
OP seemed to be wanting either a reusable or continuous effect. And either way, a 25000gp consumable is still very expensive.
It would definitely be cheaper to hire some mages for a day.
At the point where you can cast 8th level spells, 25,000 would not be that expensive.
Edit: And you are not going to find a pack of 15+ level mages just standing around waiting to be hired without such a large and relatively modern (due to influence of so many high level casters in one place) city.
I was suggesting hiring level 5+ mages to have counterspell ready like I mentioned in my first post. I honestly think antimagic field is overkill.
Also, are you just trying to argue with me, because you kind of contradict yourself there suggesting someone who can cast level 8 spells can afford items that cast level 8 spells, but where are they going to find mages that can cast level 8 spells?
Anyway, we've reached a point where replying to your random criticisms of my suggestions is no longer providing useful information.
OP seemed to be wanting either a reusable or continuous effect. And either way, a 25000gp consumable is still very expensive.
It would definitely be cheaper to hire some mages for a day.
At the point where you can cast 8th level spells, 25,000 would not be that expensive.
Edit: And you are not going to find a pack of 15+ level mages just standing around waiting to be hired without such a large and relatively modern (due to influence of so many high level casters in one place) city.
I was suggesting hiring level 5+ mages to have counterspell ready like I mentioned in my first post. I honestly think antimagic field is overkill.
Also, are you just trying to argue with me, because you kind of contradict yourself there suggesting someone who can cast level 8 spells can afford items that cast level 8 spells, but where are they going to find mages that can cast level 8 spells?
Anyway, we've reached a point where replying to your random criticisms of my suggestions is no longer providing useful information.
Sorry, I had missed the context of your earlier post.
Since the whole thing seems to be in the context of squads of armed soldiers, I would even add to your suggestion with training mages for just such purposes as part of the standing army.
I would assume that any well equipped armed force would include spellcasters. In a world with magic and magic users, not having that would be the equivalent of a modern nation without any air force or surface to air capacity...laughably outmoded and easily defeated.
Though they are not well written in general, I did like the description of the armies in the Eragon series...that series made it clear the structure of the armies in a magical world included 1 or more mages in each group of soldiers, mainly to ward and protect them from the shenanigans of other mages.
We were just discussing in our game whether weapons would be allowed in a fancy party and I pointed out that this is a world where magic exists, an unarmed Wizard who knows Fireball is much more dangerous than a squad of armed soldiers. For such occasions, are there any in-game methods for creating an Antimagic Field for a specific area? You could cast the spell (which is centered on a person and has a very small range) or hire a Beholder (or Beholders) to attend the party if they were so inclined but it seems like there should be some way to prevent hostile (or any) spellcasting in an area. Does this exist?
Certainly. You can have a wizard make glyphs of warding (one per attendee, including all serving staff and the band and so on, but not including any wizards on the security team) with antimagic field embedded in the glyphs. Everyone at the party will be subject to antimagic field for an hour.
You can hand-wave having a magic item letting the wizard use the extend spell metamagic on this (a rod that extends only antimagic field and only when embedded in a glyph of warding is so niche it's safe to let the PCs acquire it, too) for 2 hours, or even more - you don't need to be constrained by the actual sorcerer ability.
You can re-enchant the party-goers with more glyphs, so you can keep the party going if you use clever logistics to apply new glyphs to them later. The only hard limit here is the nonsensical gold cost you'll need to hire the personnel and pay for things like material components.
Separately, you can spam Hallow onto the same area until everyone at the party has resistance to all damage types except B, S, and P, is immune to being frightened, the party is full of light that counters magical darkness of level 4 or below, dead in the area can't be raised, no one in the party can teleport out, and various extraplanar entities can't enter the party (so summons autofail) or charm, frighten, or possess the partygoers, even from outside it. That shuts down several flavors of magic shenanigans.
Also separately, it's trivial to search party-goers for component pouches. Foci are problematic - many casters can use foci with non-obvious shapes, and if your GM is letting a holy symbol painted onto a shield count as a focus, that automatically enables forehead tattoos to work the same way. However, some casters, like Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters, can't use foci and must use component pouches, so this can at least cut down on the problem.
Some interesting ideas here. I wasn't really thinking about spell foci and components, that would cut down at least on some of the possible options but it seems like that would require a very thorough search of each party goer as some of those things could be very small and easy to conceal. Counterspell is another much more reasonable solution, though as several of you pointed out this will require hiring multiple magic users wander about and may or may not catch someone in time. If the spell lacks a verbal component is there any way to know its coming (assuming you don't see any material components or it doesn't have them)? Can Detect Magic see someone prepping a spell in time to counter it?
If a permanent artifact could be created to duplicate Antimagic Field it would certainly be outside of resources available to our party to do so, we are only level 7 right now and we are the ones throwing the party. I have been encouraging our Wizard to learn every warding type spell he can find to protect our base of operations but most of them are not available yet and I didn't see any of them that had this effect. Rules as written, I don't see that Glyph of Warding can do anything like what you're describing here, unless you're suggesting casting it with 8th level spell slot so that you can put Antimagic Field into a glyph, which would be really cool but you would need a Wizard of level 15 or above for each party goer and I can't imagine where you would find that many, much less the cost to hire them all.
Some interesting ideas here. I wasn't really thinking about spell foci and components, that would cut down at least on some of the possible options but it seems like that would require a very thorough search of each party goer as some of those things could be very small and easy to conceal. Counterspell is another much more reasonable solution, though as several of you pointed out this will require hiring multiple magic users wander about and may or may not catch someone in time. If the spell lacks a verbal component is there any way to know its coming (assuming you don't see any material components or it doesn't have them)? Can Detect Magic see someone prepping a spell in time to counter it?
If a permanent artifact could be created to duplicate Antimagic Field it would certainly be outside of resources available to our party to do so, we are only level 7 right now and we are the ones throwing the party. I have been encouraging our Wizard to learn every warding type spell he can find to protect our base of operations but most of them are not available yet and I didn't see any of them that had this effect. Rules as written, I don't see that Glyph of Warding can do anything like what you're describing here, unless you're suggesting casting it with 8th level spell slot so that you can put Antimagic Field into a glyph, which would be really cool but you would need a Wizard of level 15 or above for each party goer and I can't imagine where you would find that many, much less the cost to hire them all.
Counterspell also works if the spell has an S component (it's obviously a magical S to anyone briefed on spellcasting), and if the focus is obviously a focus, same for M - a Sorcerer using Subtle Spell still obviously touches their focus, so if you've banned crystal balls at the party and the focus happens to be a crystal ball, that'll also be obvious. Xanathar's makes it clear that even the M component alone makes a cast perceptible.
Like I said, the issue is the cost. Even 1 high level wizard can lay down the glyphs for you - the issue is the cost of the components, the wages of the wizard, and the time required.
At level 7, I can't think of a way for you guys to provide credible magical security. You can't even bring Teleportation Circle to the party, to get the partygoers to safety if everything goes pear-shaped. The only low-level mundane way to shut a caster down while letting them remain conscious is to strip them entirely naked, take out a knife and deface any spell focus tattoos they have, manacle their hands, gag their mouths, and hope they didn't cast Contingency before coming here. If you miss the focus despite those steps, a sorcerer with subtle spell can still cast. You should generally also manacle their legs, just in case they have monk levels.
On the other hand, blackmail works at any level. If you know the names and faces of the partygoers, you can make it very clear to all that anyone casting a spell will immediately be reported to the authorities.
Like I said, the issue is the cost. Even 1 high level wizard can lay down the glyphs for you - the issue is the cost of the components, the wages of the wizard, and the time required.
What I was getting at it that to use Glyph of Warding in this fashion would require an 8th level spell slot and perhaps a spell caster that knows both spells (Glyph of Warding says you need to use a spell slot the same as the level of the spell, it doesn't technically say you need to know the spell you want to use although I think that would be a logical requirement). This means a level 15+ Cleric or Wizard and at no point do they ever have more than 8th level slot (though I guess they could eventually use their 9th level slot as well) so you can only create one or two Wards a day, it is going to take a very long time to make enough for an entire party at that rate. It does look like you could prep them as far in advance as you needed since the spell wouldn't trigger until you wanted it to so that is something. Does this mean that you could just spend weeks inscribing Glyphs on some sort of object and then hand them out as party favors to be triggered that day?
As for your other safety measures, I suppose we could do those things but I'm guessing our guests would not be impressed and would probably not want to come back :)
I am hoping that any unspoken social rules will keep people from doing anything overtly harmful (except for the Changeling Assassin we are expecting to crash the party), we certainly don't have the means to punish them if they do although some of guests could take matters into their own hands since they are much more powerful than we are.
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We were just discussing in our game whether weapons would be allowed in a fancy party and I pointed out that this is a world where magic exists, an unarmed Wizard who knows Fireball is much more dangerous than a squad of armed soldiers. For such occasions, are there any in-game methods for creating an Antimagic Field for a specific area? You could cast the spell (which is centered on a person and has a very small range) or hire a Beholder (or Beholders) to attend the party if they were so inclined but it seems like there should be some way to prevent hostile (or any) spellcasting in an area. Does this exist?
I only know of two ways; plot device or wish.
Anything is edible if you try hard enough!
I am a swimmer. If you see me running, you should run too, because it means something horrible is chasing me.
Well assuming the dinner party disarms the wizard of his focus and doesn't have bat st*t or sulfur lying around then they don't have to worry about fireball at least.
Though there are plenty of spell they the wizard might actually be able to cast. If they have armed guards it wouldn't be bad to also have a mage with counterspell ready.
If you really want antimagic and this party is sufficiently rich, you could just homebrew it (mind you such an item or permanent source of antimagic would cost more than a large city).
I'd imagine standard practice would be:
- all weapons, offensive magic items, focuses and spell components left at the door. Searched and scanned by magics if the guest is not very prestigious.
- several abjuration specialists hired from the local mage guild, buffing the VIP hosts with protections and scanning the room from balconies with counterspell and other anti-magics ready.
- physical guards to keep the peace and punish any who try anything.
- a conjuration specialist hanging beside the most important VIP ready to dimension door them out of there at the first sign of trouble, or equivalent magical escapes.
An actual antimagic field might actually make things worse, since it would also shut down most methods of defence or escape.
It mimics an 8th level spell effect. If it is 1 time use then it is a very rare magic item worth at least 25k gp. If it can be used repeatedly it would be legendary and worth at least 100k gp or up to 500k gp.
A small castle costs 50k and a large castle cost 500k. So I stand by my assessment. Such items would be considered extreme treasures at least.
Oh, no. I was talking large for medieval times city (not to mention full of mostly 1-2 story buildings made of stone and wood). Not a modern big city worth hundreds of billions (trillions? It is hard to measure that high) of dollars.
OP seemed to be wanting either a reusable or continuous effect. And either way, a 25000gp consumable is still very expensive.
It would definitely be cheaper to hire some mages for a day.
I was suggesting hiring level 5+ mages to have counterspell ready like I mentioned in my first post. I honestly think antimagic field is overkill.
Also, are you just trying to argue with me, because you kind of contradict yourself there suggesting someone who can cast level 8 spells can afford items that cast level 8 spells, but where are they going to find mages that can cast level 8 spells?
Anyway, we've reached a point where replying to your random criticisms of my suggestions is no longer providing useful information.
I would assume that any well equipped armed force would include spellcasters. In a world with magic and magic users, not having that would be the equivalent of a modern nation without any air force or surface to air capacity...laughably outmoded and easily defeated.
Though they are not well written in general, I did like the description of the armies in the Eragon series...that series made it clear the structure of the armies in a magical world included 1 or more mages in each group of soldiers, mainly to ward and protect them from the shenanigans of other mages.
Certainly. You can have a wizard make glyphs of warding (one per attendee, including all serving staff and the band and so on, but not including any wizards on the security team) with antimagic field embedded in the glyphs. Everyone at the party will be subject to antimagic field for an hour.
You can hand-wave having a magic item letting the wizard use the extend spell metamagic on this (a rod that extends only antimagic field and only when embedded in a glyph of warding is so niche it's safe to let the PCs acquire it, too) for 2 hours, or even more - you don't need to be constrained by the actual sorcerer ability.
You can re-enchant the party-goers with more glyphs, so you can keep the party going if you use clever logistics to apply new glyphs to them later. The only hard limit here is the nonsensical gold cost you'll need to hire the personnel and pay for things like material components.
Separately, you can spam Hallow onto the same area until everyone at the party has resistance to all damage types except B, S, and P, is immune to being frightened, the party is full of light that counters magical darkness of level 4 or below, dead in the area can't be raised, no one in the party can teleport out, and various extraplanar entities can't enter the party (so summons autofail) or charm, frighten, or possess the partygoers, even from outside it. That shuts down several flavors of magic shenanigans.
Also separately, it's trivial to search party-goers for component pouches. Foci are problematic - many casters can use foci with non-obvious shapes, and if your GM is letting a holy symbol painted onto a shield count as a focus, that automatically enables forehead tattoos to work the same way. However, some casters, like Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters, can't use foci and must use component pouches, so this can at least cut down on the problem.
Some interesting ideas here. I wasn't really thinking about spell foci and components, that would cut down at least on some of the possible options but it seems like that would require a very thorough search of each party goer as some of those things could be very small and easy to conceal. Counterspell is another much more reasonable solution, though as several of you pointed out this will require hiring multiple magic users wander about and may or may not catch someone in time. If the spell lacks a verbal component is there any way to know its coming (assuming you don't see any material components or it doesn't have them)? Can Detect Magic see someone prepping a spell in time to counter it?
If a permanent artifact could be created to duplicate Antimagic Field it would certainly be outside of resources available to our party to do so, we are only level 7 right now and we are the ones throwing the party. I have been encouraging our Wizard to learn every warding type spell he can find to protect our base of operations but most of them are not available yet and I didn't see any of them that had this effect. Rules as written, I don't see that Glyph of Warding can do anything like what you're describing here, unless you're suggesting casting it with 8th level spell slot so that you can put Antimagic Field into a glyph, which would be really cool but you would need a Wizard of level 15 or above for each party goer and I can't imagine where you would find that many, much less the cost to hire them all.
Counterspell also works if the spell has an S component (it's obviously a magical S to anyone briefed on spellcasting), and if the focus is obviously a focus, same for M - a Sorcerer using Subtle Spell still obviously touches their focus, so if you've banned crystal balls at the party and the focus happens to be a crystal ball, that'll also be obvious. Xanathar's makes it clear that even the M component alone makes a cast perceptible.
Like I said, the issue is the cost. Even 1 high level wizard can lay down the glyphs for you - the issue is the cost of the components, the wages of the wizard, and the time required.
At level 7, I can't think of a way for you guys to provide credible magical security. You can't even bring Teleportation Circle to the party, to get the partygoers to safety if everything goes pear-shaped. The only low-level mundane way to shut a caster down while letting them remain conscious is to strip them entirely naked, take out a knife and deface any spell focus tattoos they have, manacle their hands, gag their mouths, and hope they didn't cast Contingency before coming here. If you miss the focus despite those steps, a sorcerer with subtle spell can still cast. You should generally also manacle their legs, just in case they have monk levels.
On the other hand, blackmail works at any level. If you know the names and faces of the partygoers, you can make it very clear to all that anyone casting a spell will immediately be reported to the authorities.
What I was getting at it that to use Glyph of Warding in this fashion would require an 8th level spell slot and perhaps a spell caster that knows both spells (Glyph of Warding says you need to use a spell slot the same as the level of the spell, it doesn't technically say you need to know the spell you want to use although I think that would be a logical requirement). This means a level 15+ Cleric or Wizard and at no point do they ever have more than 8th level slot (though I guess they could eventually use their 9th level slot as well) so you can only create one or two Wards a day, it is going to take a very long time to make enough for an entire party at that rate. It does look like you could prep them as far in advance as you needed since the spell wouldn't trigger until you wanted it to so that is something. Does this mean that you could just spend weeks inscribing Glyphs on some sort of object and then hand them out as party favors to be triggered that day?
As for your other safety measures, I suppose we could do those things but I'm guessing our guests would not be impressed and would probably not want to come back :)
I am hoping that any unspoken social rules will keep people from doing anything overtly harmful (except for the Changeling Assassin we are expecting to crash the party), we certainly don't have the means to punish them if they do although some of guests could take matters into their own hands since they are much more powerful than we are.