Hey all! quick question for everyone. Can a spell caster use a spell that is not on their spell list? Example Could a wizard use a spell from the sorcerers list? One of my players a cleric would like to use a spell from the paladin list. I plan on allowing it. But I just wanted to know if there was an official rule regarding that. I have not been able to find anything about it in any of the rules books. Thanks and my all your rolls be 20's!
Caster spell lists define what they can prepare and cast. There are means by which non-traditional spells can be added to a caster's spell list, such as through sub-classes (Divine Soul Sorcerer), and there are items which allow certain spells to be cast by anyone (Ring of Spell Storing). Scrolls can only be used by those who would normally gain access to the inscribed spell through class progression.
You are perfectly welcome to make exceptions for your players, but the various spell lists are deliberately designed to be segmented. One reason for this is to ensure that each class has a unique role and potential to explore. Blurring those lines takes away from the specialness of each class.
The short answer is no. Beyond what memnosyne said, there’s a feat, magic initiate, that allows for limited access to spells from other class lists. Giving your cleric access to a pally spell is like giving them part of a feat for free — except you can’t even really take the feat to get paladin spells. So it’s going beyond that. Well, that’s maybe not the best analogy, but suffice to say the game designers seemed to think if you want a spell from outside your list, you had to do something to earn it, like spending a feat. That said, it’s your table, if you want to allow it, you can, but it’s not RAW.
Another thing to note is that if it is a spell that is Paladin or Ranger exclusive, there is a chance that it might be unexpectedly stronger on another class. Exclusive spells are normally pretty strong, especially Paladin and Ranger ones because they sometimes compensate for lower spell levels by making the spells a bit stronger than their normal level. An example of this could be the find steed spells, destructive wave, and swift quiver, which are all pretty powerful for their levels, which is why Bards often steal these spells in particular.
Everyone, Thanks! I appreciate it. And based on what everyone stated I understand the mechanics better. I definetly makes sense why they get separated the way that they do.
As mentioned, the RAW answer is no. A character only has access to spells on their class/sub-class spell lists unless noted otherwise.
In addition, this restriction also applies to scrolls. You can't cast a spell from a scroll unless it is also on your class' spell list. If the spell on a scroll is on your list but higher level than you can currently cast you have to succeed at an arcana ability check in order to cast it. I think the DC is something like 10+spell level.
However, the DMG actually contains two contradictory rules on casting spells from scrolls.
DMG p200 "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time. Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost.
If the spell is on your class's spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + spell's level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect."
DMG p139 "Any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it."
Though I may not have the most recent copy of the DMG and the rule on p139 could have been errata'ed. The rule on p200 says the scroll is unintelligible if the spell isn't on your class list while p139 says that anyone can read the script and attempt to cast it.
The seeming contradiction in scroll rules is: one is a general rule for all magic scrolls, and one is a specific rule only for the spell scroll magic item.
Everyone, Thanks! I appreciate it. And based on what everyone stated I understand the mechanics better. I definetly makes sense why they get separated the way that they do.
Cheers!
The "Spellcasting" section for each class has the rules specific to that class.
Each class does things slightly differently, so it's always wise to check that section for the correct class.
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Hey all! quick question for everyone. Can a spell caster use a spell that is not on their spell list? Example Could a wizard use a spell from the sorcerers list? One of my players a cleric would like to use a spell from the paladin list. I plan on allowing it. But I just wanted to know if there was an official rule regarding that. I have not been able to find anything about it in any of the rules books. Thanks and my all your rolls be 20's!
What do you mean by "Use"?
Caster spell lists define what they can prepare and cast. There are means by which non-traditional spells can be added to a caster's spell list, such as through sub-classes (Divine Soul Sorcerer), and there are items which allow certain spells to be cast by anyone (Ring of Spell Storing). Scrolls can only be used by those who would normally gain access to the inscribed spell through class progression.
You are perfectly welcome to make exceptions for your players, but the various spell lists are deliberately designed to be segmented. One reason for this is to ensure that each class has a unique role and potential to explore. Blurring those lines takes away from the specialness of each class.
The short answer is no. Beyond what memnosyne said, there’s a feat, magic initiate, that allows for limited access to spells from other class lists. Giving your cleric access to a pally spell is like giving them part of a feat for free — except you can’t even really take the feat to get paladin spells. So it’s going beyond that. Well, that’s maybe not the best analogy, but suffice to say the game designers seemed to think if you want a spell from outside your list, you had to do something to earn it, like spending a feat. That said, it’s your table, if you want to allow it, you can, but it’s not RAW.
As mentioned above.
Your class lets you learn/prepare the spells on your class spell list. It doesn't need to tell you what it doesn't let you do.
Anyway, you can homebrew if you want or consider an item or something.
Another thing to note is that if it is a spell that is Paladin or Ranger exclusive, there is a chance that it might be unexpectedly stronger on another class. Exclusive spells are normally pretty strong, especially Paladin and Ranger ones because they sometimes compensate for lower spell levels by making the spells a bit stronger than their normal level. An example of this could be the find steed spells, destructive wave, and swift quiver, which are all pretty powerful for their levels, which is why Bards often steal these spells in particular.
Everyone, Thanks! I appreciate it. And based on what everyone stated I understand the mechanics better. I definetly makes sense why they get separated the way that they do.
Cheers!
As mentioned, the RAW answer is no. A character only has access to spells on their class/sub-class spell lists unless noted otherwise.
In addition, this restriction also applies to scrolls. You can't cast a spell from a scroll unless it is also on your class' spell list. If the spell on a scroll is on your list but higher level than you can currently cast you have to succeed at an arcana ability check in order to cast it. I think the DC is something like 10+spell level.
However, the DMG actually contains two contradictory rules on casting spells from scrolls.
DMG p200 "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time. Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost.
If the spell is on your class's spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + spell's level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect."
DMG p139 "Any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it."
Though I may not have the most recent copy of the DMG and the rule on p139 could have been errata'ed. The rule on p200 says the scroll is unintelligible if the spell isn't on your class list while p139 says that anyone can read the script and attempt to cast it.
The seeming contradiction in scroll rules is: one is a general rule for all magic scrolls, and one is a specific rule only for the spell scroll magic item.
The "Spellcasting" section for each class has the rules specific to that class.
Each class does things slightly differently, so it's always wise to check that section for the correct class.