I don't think getting temp hp is considered increasing your maximum. Your maximum is what it is. Temp hp creates a whole separate pool of hp. They can cause your current hp to exceed your maximum, but they do not increase your maximum. For example, instead of having 50 of 50 hp, you have 55 of 50 hp. Your maximum is still the same.
The spell wearing off is not an active reduction of Maximum HP, it is simply the loss of the benefit.
The Necromancy ability only protects against features that specifically state they reduce Maximum HP.
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No. Your hit points aren't being reduced when the spell wears off. They just stop being increased. A minor semantic difference, but the only way this exploit works is through semantics anyways.
If the spell said something along the lines of:
Each target's hit point maximum and current hit points increase by 5. When the spell ends, each target's hit point maximum and current hit points are reduced by the same amount.
I don't think getting temp hp is considered increasing your maximum. Your maximum is what it is. Temp hp creates a whole separate pool of hp. They can cause your current hp to exceed your maximum, but they do not increase your maximum. For example, instead of having 50 of 50 hp, you have 55 of 50 hp. Your maximum is still the same.
Aid has no interaction with temp hp at all. I think you're thinking of heroism.
+1 that Aid doesn't reduce, it simply stops increasing.
exact wording:
"Each target's hit point maximum and current hit points increase by 5 for the duration."
So after the duration, the max HP doesn't reduce, per se, but it does stop being increased.
An effect that lasts for a duration isn't an effect, followed by an opposite effect a certain time later - you're not increasing it and then subsequently decreasing it, you're increasing it for this long, after which it's no longer increased. Whilst this does decrease it, it isn't an effect which directly does so.
Agree with most of what is being said, though I've seen other forums rule other things. 2 ways to rule this: 1 is as stated above: a simple no based on the semantics of the spell.
2, if you want to be generous you can let them have the 5 HP but then explain them that a spell with the same name (at the same lvl) can not be active multiple times on a character (which is RAW), so there's no stacking lvl 2 aid spells, but they could overwrite it with a higher lvl aid. This means that at worst the necro could have 40 extra HP if someone is willing to spend their lvl 9 spell slot for that day. It's a nice boost, nowhere near infinite and let's the necro play out his "can't reduce my HP" ability a bit more than they normally would.
The spell wearing off is not an active reduction of Maximum HP, it is simply the loss of the benefit.
The Necromancy ability only protects against features that specifically state they reduce Maximum HP.
I'm not following you. When Aid wears off on the L10+ Necromancer, does their maximum hp reduce by 5 or not?
No, their maximum HP is not being reduced; it is returning to normal. The Necromancer feature, as Cyb3r already mentioned, is specifically to prevent things which explicitly reduce maximum HP... such as the bite attack of a Vampire Spawn
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The necromancer health loop wouldn't work, you can't stack the effects of spells, so you would just have a permanent extra health boost, which is strong, but not infinite
Yeah, it is a neat trick but not super broken. Just slightly so. But, also... kind of thematically fitting imo. It makes sense to me that a necromancer would simply have more hp than a typical wizard. So I'd greenlight this combo as a DM for sure.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yeah, it is a neat trick but not super broken. Just slightly so. But, also... kind of thematically fitting imo. It makes sense to me that a necromancer would simply have more hp than a typical wizard. So I'd greenlight this combo as a DM for sure.
Obviously, you could rule it however you want at your table, but I doubt that any GM would let it work in practice. Even if you think it's RAW (I'll get to that), it's definitely not RAI.
But, as explained above, it doesn't work RAW. Your HP maximum is not being actively reduced; it is merely no longer being increased.
That's not really how anything in dnd works, though. It is written in natural language. And when Aid ends, your HP maximum is reduced. And this ability prevents your maximum HP from being reduced. That's the RAW.
Also, plenty of DMs (not GMs) would rule it this way. Many stick to RAW and/or RAC. Just as many as do RAI.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
That's not really how anything in dnd works, though. It is written in natural language. And when Aid ends, your HP maximum is reduced. And this ability prevents your maximum HP from being reduced. That's the RAW.
If it's the RAW, then it is an infinite hit point ratchet. The rule about not stacking the same effect cannot apply, because you are not under any effect. The spell that increased your Max HP is over. RAW, you're no longer under an Aid spell, so a new Aid spell will apply.
If you wanna play it like that at your table, go for it. You want the "RAW", use it all.
But that lack of any ability is why it doesn't work RAW. What's increasing your HP Max? Nothing at all. It's not the Necromancer ability -- that doesn't increase your Max HP. Therefore, your HP Max is defined by all the things that grant you hit points.
(Or, if you'd rather, Aid does not say it "reduces" your HP Max. Therefore, it could easily be some other thing.)
Also, plenty of DMs (not GMs) would rule it this way. Many stick to RAW and/or RAC. Just as many as do RAI.
Nobody runs by straight RAW.
The game is unplayable on straight RAW. Too many mechanical interactions don't have a defined answer. Too many player actions fall outside the framework.
Fortunately, RAW includes a person whose role is to resolve all the questions. But their decisions aren't RAW.
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What happens when aid wears off on a level 10 necromancer? Here's the text of the necromancer ability:
Does the necromancer's hit point maximum simply grow without bound every time the spell wears off?
Interesting... I'm fairly sure that isn't what they intended but by RAW it might just work.
I don't think getting temp hp is considered increasing your maximum. Your maximum is what it is. Temp hp creates a whole separate pool of hp. They can cause your current hp to exceed your maximum, but they do not increase your maximum. For example, instead of having 50 of 50 hp, you have 55 of 50 hp. Your maximum is still the same.Edit:Oops. Nothing to see here. move along.
The spell wearing off is not an active reduction of Maximum HP, it is simply the loss of the benefit.
The Necromancy ability only protects against features that specifically state they reduce Maximum HP.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
No. Your hit points aren't being reduced when the spell wears off. They just stop being increased. A minor semantic difference, but the only way this exploit works is through semantics anyways.
If the spell said something along the lines of:
Then you would have more of a leg to stand on.
Aid has no interaction with temp hp at all. I think you're thinking of heroism.
I'm not following you. When Aid wears off on the L10+ Necromancer, does their maximum hp reduce by 5 or not?
I think it is safe to assume that this is not intended and DMs shouldn't allow it, regardless of if it is RAW or not.
It doesn't reduce, but the increase is removed. There is no text in Aid which reduces maximum hp, just an increase that only lasts for a duration.
+1 that Aid doesn't reduce, it simply stops increasing.
exact wording:
"Each target's hit point maximum and current hit points increase by 5 for the duration."
So after the duration, the max HP doesn't reduce, per se, but it does stop being increased.
An effect that lasts for a duration isn't an effect, followed by an opposite effect a certain time later - you're not increasing it and then subsequently decreasing it, you're increasing it for this long, after which it's no longer increased. Whilst this does decrease it, it isn't an effect which directly does so.
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Agree with most of what is being said, though I've seen other forums rule other things. 2 ways to rule this: 1 is as stated above: a simple no based on the semantics of the spell.
2, if you want to be generous you can let them have the 5 HP but then explain them that a spell with the same name (at the same lvl) can not be active multiple times on a character (which is RAW), so there's no stacking lvl 2 aid spells, but they could overwrite it with a higher lvl aid. This means that at worst the necro could have 40 extra HP if someone is willing to spend their lvl 9 spell slot for that day. It's a nice boost, nowhere near infinite and let's the necro play out his "can't reduce my HP" ability a bit more than they normally would.
No, their maximum HP is not being reduced; it is returning to normal. The Necromancer feature, as Cyb3r already mentioned, is specifically to prevent things which explicitly reduce maximum HP... such as the bite attack of a Vampire Spawn
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The necromancer health loop wouldn't work, you can't stack the effects of spells, so you would just have a permanent extra health boost, which is strong, but not infinite
Yeah, it is a neat trick but not super broken. Just slightly so. But, also... kind of thematically fitting imo. It makes sense to me that a necromancer would simply have more hp than a typical wizard. So I'd greenlight this combo as a DM for sure.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Obviously, you could rule it however you want at your table, but I doubt that any GM would let it work in practice. Even if you think it's RAW (I'll get to that), it's definitely not RAI.
But, as explained above, it doesn't work RAW. Your HP maximum is not being actively reduced; it is merely no longer being increased.
That's not really how anything in dnd works, though. It is written in natural language. And when Aid ends, your HP maximum is reduced. And this ability prevents your maximum HP from being reduced. That's the RAW.
Also, plenty of DMs (not GMs) would rule it this way. Many stick to RAW and/or RAC. Just as many as do RAI.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If it's the RAW, then it is an infinite hit point ratchet. The rule about not stacking the same effect cannot apply, because you are not under any effect. The spell that increased your Max HP is over. RAW, you're no longer under an Aid spell, so a new Aid spell will apply.
If you wanna play it like that at your table, go for it. You want the "RAW", use it all.
But that lack of any ability is why it doesn't work RAW. What's increasing your HP Max? Nothing at all. It's not the Necromancer ability -- that doesn't increase your Max HP. Therefore, your HP Max is defined by all the things that grant you hit points.
(Or, if you'd rather, Aid does not say it "reduces" your HP Max. Therefore, it could easily be some other thing.)
Nobody runs by straight RAW.
The game is unplayable on straight RAW. Too many mechanical interactions don't have a defined answer. Too many player actions fall outside the framework.
Fortunately, RAW includes a person whose role is to resolve all the questions. But their decisions aren't RAW.