Your spell save DC is set by the formula (Spell Save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier). This gives you a static number that doesn't change until your stats change. This number is a Difficulty Class that your targets must roll against to see if they succumb to your spell fully or partially or not at all. Which type of Saving Throw your target has to roll depends on the spell. For Tasha's Caustic Brew that happens to be Dexterity. Your target must roll a Dexterity Saving Throw based on their own Dexterity in order to try and resist your spell.
So the DC is static and is based on your stats. The Saving Throw is based on the spell, but it rolls your target's Saving Throw value.
Does that make sense?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Your Spell Save DC is always based on the formula, and does not change based on the spell, for your Artificer it is 8+Proficiency Mod+Intelligence Mod. This is basically how hard it is to resist your spells.
Your own Saving Throws are how well you resist effects that are thrown at you and is a completely separate thing from your Spell Save DC.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Just to sort of echo/rephrase what has already been answered: in your example the DC is 8+your proficiency+your intelligence, then the target rolls 1d20+their dexterity+[their proficiency if they are proficient with DEX saves].
That is how saves work, your save modifiers will only ever be added to a d20 roll to make a save, never to calculate a DC. Similar to how an attack modifier is added to a d20 for attack rolls, but never used to calculate AC.
Artificer with +3 Proficiency and 18 Intelligence, has a DC of 8+3+4 = DC 15.
When you cast Tasha's Brew, your targets have to roll a Dexterity save with a DC of 15.
So if your VICTIM is proficient with Dex and their proficiency is +3, and their Dex was 15, then they would roll 1d20 + 3 prof +2 Dex. They would need to roll a 10 or higher on the d20 to make their save. Otherwise they would Fail
Considering that a d20's average roll is 10.5, 2.5 more than the 8 that spell DCs start at, you'd think it might be a net bonus to players... but overall, I think that players will feel ike this benefits enemies more than themselves. Depending on the spell they're casting, a spellcaster who has limited spell slots to cast already can feel like their turn and their slot was "wasted" when an enemy rolls to beat their DC.... adding in the possibility that the player will roll low and set their DC ridiculously low so that the enemy is guaranteed to beat it will make that feeling even more prevalent. It also will probably slow play down quite a bit, requiring two rolls (and double checking math) instead of one.
If you are going to try it, I would roll it out as an option that a player can choose to use on any given spell they're casting, but not something they have to do every time. that way, if they want to cast a Hold Monster against a difficult enemy, they can take a chance at having a higher DC than normal... but they won't be penalized against day-to-day enemies who get lucky and find they only have to beat a super low DC due to the player rolling poorly on routine spells.
I hear you but, in the name of me looking to add as much "realism" as possible to the games/campaigns/adventures I plan to run...
It just seems a tad more "realistic" that a creature isn't 100% at any & all given times
Looking to allow for genuine human (read: "creature") error w/Proficiency Dice here
I also understand the concerns of slowing the game down but, at the same time, not a single one of my players bothered to take my advice & read Chapter 7 in the PHB so...
It's bound to be a looong game anyway 🤷🏾♂️😓
Thanks for advice regardless 👍🏾
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Good morning all ☀️
I’m almost embarrassed to say that I’m still a bit confused on how this works
Reading Artificer features:
Spell Save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
This leaves me w/ the impression that all spells cast by my Artificer, the spell save DC would use this particular formula
i.e. is 8 + 2 + 4 = DC 14
My confusion comes in w/ the spell’s DC formula within it’s own description
Spell: Tasha’s Caustic Brew
Says a creature would need to succeed in a Dexterity saving throw
My question is who’s Dexterity modifier needs to be placed into the DC formula for this save: the Artificer’s Dex mod or the target’s Dex mod?
Also, what exactly is the formula here: 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Dexterity modifier
(and by “your” I mean “my”… the Artificer)
Also, if this is the case, why add my proficiency bonus if I don’t have proficiency in Dexterity?
So confused… help! 🤔
By the way, judging from what I’m seeing, my Artificer has proficiency in Intelligence +6 & Constitution +4 Saving Throws
Your spell save DC is set by the formula (Spell Save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier). This gives you a static number that doesn't change until your stats change. This number is a Difficulty Class that your targets must roll against to see if they succumb to your spell fully or partially or not at all. Which type of Saving Throw your target has to roll depends on the spell. For Tasha's Caustic Brew that happens to be Dexterity. Your target must roll a Dexterity Saving Throw based on their own Dexterity in order to try and resist your spell.
So the DC is static and is based on your stats. The Saving Throw is based on the spell, but it rolls your target's Saving Throw value.
Does that make sense?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Your Spell Save DC is always based on the formula, and does not change based on the spell, for your Artificer it is 8+Proficiency Mod+Intelligence Mod. This is basically how hard it is to resist your spells.
Your own Saving Throws are how well you resist effects that are thrown at you and is a completely separate thing from your Spell Save DC.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Just to sort of echo/rephrase what has already been answered: in your example the DC is 8+your proficiency+your intelligence, then the target rolls 1d20+their dexterity+[their proficiency if they are proficient with DEX saves].
That is how saves work, your save modifiers will only ever be added to a d20 roll to make a save, never to calculate a DC. Similar to how an attack modifier is added to a d20 for attack rolls, but never used to calculate AC.
Example.
Artificer with +3 Proficiency and 18 Intelligence, has a DC of 8+3+4 = DC 15.
When you cast Tasha's Brew, your targets have to roll a Dexterity save with a DC of 15.
So if your VICTIM is proficient with Dex and their proficiency is +3, and their Dex was 15, then they would roll 1d20 + 3 prof +2 Dex. They would need to roll a 10 or higher on the d20 to make their save. Otherwise they would Fail
All of you were a great help
Much appreciated - I’ll review all of your responses momentarily
Thanks friends 🙏🏾
I get it now
Crazy that it took me this long to finally understand 😔
Yup… got it now.
Thanks for breaking it down. 👍🏾
Makes sense now
Thank you 🙏🏾
Hey so what's everyone's thoughts on me planning on running my game w/ Proficiency Dice?
The Save DC will change pretty much every saving throw
I love the idea of Proficiency Dice & looking forward to implanting in the games I run
Considering that a d20's average roll is 10.5, 2.5 more than the 8 that spell DCs start at, you'd think it might be a net bonus to players... but overall, I think that players will feel ike this benefits enemies more than themselves. Depending on the spell they're casting, a spellcaster who has limited spell slots to cast already can feel like their turn and their slot was "wasted" when an enemy rolls to beat their DC.... adding in the possibility that the player will roll low and set their DC ridiculously low so that the enemy is guaranteed to beat it will make that feeling even more prevalent. It also will probably slow play down quite a bit, requiring two rolls (and double checking math) instead of one.
If you are going to try it, I would roll it out as an option that a player can choose to use on any given spell they're casting, but not something they have to do every time. that way, if they want to cast a Hold Monster against a difficult enemy, they can take a chance at having a higher DC than normal... but they won't be penalized against day-to-day enemies who get lucky and find they only have to beat a super low DC due to the player rolling poorly on routine spells.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I hear you but, in the name of me looking to add as much "realism" as possible to the games/campaigns/adventures I plan to run...
It just seems a tad more "realistic" that a creature isn't 100% at any & all given times
Looking to allow for genuine human (read: "creature") error w/Proficiency Dice here
I also understand the concerns of slowing the game down but, at the same time, not a single one of my players bothered to take my advice & read Chapter 7 in the PHB so...
It's bound to be a looong game anyway 🤷🏾♂️😓
Thanks for advice regardless 👍🏾