Quick and easy hopefully if I dual-wield Hand Crossbows will I lose my extra attack or not, Since I ignore the loading property via the feat does that give me the possibility to extra attack with a crossbow, and then use the feats bonus action to attack again? Or is my dream of being a Vampire slayer who is too edgy for his own good not possible?
Quick and easy hopefully if I dual-wield Hand Crossbows will I lose my extra attack or not, Since I ignore the loading property via the feat does that give me the possibility to extra attack with a crossbow, and then use the feats bonus action to attack again? Or is my dream of being a Vampire slayer who is too edgy for his own good not possible?
Without two Artificers to assist you, no, you cannot. the Loading property is ignored, sure, but the Ammunition property is what requires hand xbows to need a free hand. So unless you have two Artificers to give up their Repeating Shot infusions on your hand xbows, you're still too edgy for your own good.
...Rules aside, I would totally let you do it at my table because honestly, screw that, dual wielding hand crossbows is cool. :P
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Damn, unlucky for me ain't nobody playing Artificers, But thanks mate I would love to play in ya game if it was possible but I doubt that being possible only considering time management :D
Quick and easy hopefully if I dual-wield Hand Crossbows will I lose my extra attack or not, Since I ignore the loading property via the feat does that give me the possibility to extra attack with a crossbow, and then use the feats bonus action to attack again? Or is my dream of being a Vampire slayer who is too edgy for his own good not possible?
You can't dual wield, but you could use your extra attack and make a bonus action attack just wielding 1.
Technically, you can dual wield hand crossbows but it's complicated and won't be wielded simultaneously. You have to start with a hand crossbow in hand and another either on yourself or on the ground. Unless you have different magic hand crossbows you really want to use, it's way too much handling when a single hand crossbow can achieve the same numbers of attacks on a turn and save you item interactions.
1. Load and attack with hand crossbow #1 as a bonus action.
2. Drop hand crossbow #1 free.
3. Pick up hand crossbow #2. (free item interaction)
4. Load and attack with hand crossbow #2 as an Attack action
5. Load and attack with hand crossbow #2 as an Attack action (Extra Attack)
Sadly RAW doesn't allow it, but considering that you would get three attacks if you were holding one (thanks to the Feat) I would allow you to dual wield two Hand Crossbows since it would "look cool" without having any impact on action economy. The only time it would potentially have an impact is if you have magical Hand Crossbows that have different effects.
The phrase "Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack" is meant to be inclusive (drawing and loading ammo can be done without requiring an object interaction to do so) rather than exclusive (drawing and loading ammo can only be done as part of firing) and this is backed up as RAI and by a reasonable situational reading. Surely you wouldn't deny someone firing a weapon if they started the turn with a piece of ammo in their hand or on the ground just because it didn't come from a quiver, case, or other container. And would you deny someone the ability to use their object interaction to load a crossbow without firing it? If so, would you force someone to unload it before they could fire it, just to meet the strictest possible reading of the rule?
If you want to read it exclusively, then I'm not going to say you're specifically wrong for doing so, but I am also not wrong for reading it inclusively.
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon). At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield.
If you use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see "Improvised Weapons" later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.
This is the part everyone gets hung up on. If this part was under Loading Property, where it should be, this wouldn't even be an issue.
Quick and easy hopefully if I dual-wield Hand Crossbows will I lose my extra attack or not, Since I ignore the loading property via the feat does that give me the possibility to extra attack with a crossbow, and then use the feats bonus action to attack again? Or is my dream of being a Vampire slayer who is too edgy for his own good not possible?
The only reason a character would ever want to do this is because they think it looks cool to hold two hand crossbows - otherwise there is no reason to ever hold two of them.
Cross bow expert gives you a bonus action attack with the SAME hand crossbow you use to make the regular attack. It does not need you to hold two.
"When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding."
A hand crossbow IS a one handed weapon. If you happen to be using your hand crossbow for the Attack action you can use the SAME hand crossbow for the bonus action attack.
If you have the extra attack feature you can make multiple attacks with the hand cross bow as part of the Attack action since the feat also lets you ignore the Loading property and THEN you can still follow that up with a bonus action hand crossbow attack due to the feat.
A character would NEVER hold two hand crossbows unless they like the look of firing two since they can make every attack allowed by the rules with a single hand crossbow.
However, you do need to keep the other hand empty when firing a hand crossbow if you want to be able to LOAD it. hand crossbows have both the Ammunition and Loading properties. The feat does not get rid of the ammunition property which requires a free hand in order to re-load the hand crossbow. This means that if you are holding two hand cross-bows then you can only fire them once each since you do not have a free hand to re-load them.
The only way to get around the ammunition property I know of ... is the Artificer repeating shot infusion which converts the weapon to magical and automatically reloads it. This bypasses both the ammunition and the loading properties of the weapon.
So if you want the LOOK of holding and firing two hand crossbows then the only way is to have a couple of artificer friends use the repeating shot infusion on them. However, as mentioned, it has NO mechanical benefit - it is just a look/style.
Right. So you would have two use two object interactions to load them ahead of time (which is probably no big deal since that would likely happen before initiative is rolled anyway) and once you fire them both, you need to figure out a way to free up a hand to load from that point onward.
Quick and easy hopefully if I dual-wield Hand Crossbows will I lose my extra attack or not, Since I ignore the loading property via the feat does that give me the possibility to extra attack with a crossbow, and then use the feats bonus action to attack again? Or is my dream of being a Vampire slayer who is too edgy for his own good not possible?
Without two Artificers to assist you, no, you cannot. the Loading property is ignored, sure, but the Ammunition property is what requires hand xbows to need a free hand. So unless you have two Artificers to give up their Repeating Shot infusions on your hand xbows, you're still too edgy for your own good.
...Rules aside, I would totally let you do it at my table because honestly, screw that, dual wielding hand crossbows is cool. :P
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Damn, unlucky for me ain't nobody playing Artificers, But thanks mate I would love to play in ya game if it was possible but I doubt that being possible only considering time management :D
You can fire two hand crossbow on the same turn, provided both are loaded. Otherwise you need a free hand to reload them.
With the Crossbow Expert feat, you don't even need two hand crossbows to attack with the bonus action and Extra Attack, a single one will suffice.
You can't dual wield, but you could use your extra attack and make a bonus action attack just wielding 1.
Technically, you can dual wield hand crossbows but it's complicated and won't be wielded simultaneously. You have to start with a hand crossbow in hand and another either on yourself or on the ground. Unless you have different magic hand crossbows you really want to use, it's way too much handling when a single hand crossbow can achieve the same numbers of attacks on a turn and save you item interactions.
1. Load and attack with hand crossbow #1 as a bonus action.
2. Drop hand crossbow #1 free.
3. Pick up hand crossbow #2. (free item interaction)
4. Load and attack with hand crossbow #2 as an Attack action
5. Load and attack with hand crossbow #2 as an Attack action (Extra Attack)
Right. It isn't sustainable (how you gonna reload?) but if you want to make a dramatic entrance with a crossbow in each hand, it's your prerogative.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Sadly RAW doesn't allow it, but considering that you would get three attacks if you were holding one (thanks to the Feat) I would allow you to dual wield two Hand Crossbows since it would "look cool" without having any impact on action economy. The only time it would potentially have an impact is if you have magical Hand Crossbows that have different effects.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The phrase "Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack" is meant to be inclusive (drawing and loading ammo can be done without requiring an object interaction to do so) rather than exclusive (drawing and loading ammo can only be done as part of firing) and this is backed up as RAI and by a reasonable situational reading. Surely you wouldn't deny someone firing a weapon if they started the turn with a piece of ammo in their hand or on the ground just because it didn't come from a quiver, case, or other container. And would you deny someone the ability to use their object interaction to load a crossbow without firing it? If so, would you force someone to unload it before they could fire it, just to meet the strictest possible reading of the rule?
If you want to read it exclusively, then I'm not going to say you're specifically wrong for doing so, but I am also not wrong for reading it inclusively.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
For dual welding hand crossbows, it's not the
AmmunitionLoading property the problem, it's theLoadingAmmunition property requiring a free hand.EDIT Inversed Terms
Crossbow Expert ignores the Loading property so not an issue.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon). At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield.
If you use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a melee attack, you treat the weapon as an improvised weapon (see "Improvised Weapons" later in the section). A sling must be loaded to deal any damage when used in this way.
This is the part everyone gets hung up on. If this part was under Loading Property, where it should be, this wouldn't even be an issue.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I actually asked about a similar topic last year - this thread covers it pretty well:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/63123-two-weapon-fighting-with-hand-crossbows-has-anyone
The only reason a character would ever want to do this is because they think it looks cool to hold two hand crossbows - otherwise there is no reason to ever hold two of them.
Cross bow expert gives you a bonus action attack with the SAME hand crossbow you use to make the regular attack. It does not need you to hold two.
"When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding."
A hand crossbow IS a one handed weapon. If you happen to be using your hand crossbow for the Attack action you can use the SAME hand crossbow for the bonus action attack.
If you have the extra attack feature you can make multiple attacks with the hand cross bow as part of the Attack action since the feat also lets you ignore the Loading property and THEN you can still follow that up with a bonus action hand crossbow attack due to the feat.
A character would NEVER hold two hand crossbows unless they like the look of firing two since they can make every attack allowed by the rules with a single hand crossbow.
However, you do need to keep the other hand empty when firing a hand crossbow if you want to be able to LOAD it. hand crossbows have both the Ammunition and Loading properties. The feat does not get rid of the ammunition property which requires a free hand in order to re-load the hand crossbow. This means that if you are holding two hand cross-bows then you can only fire them once each since you do not have a free hand to re-load them.
The only way to get around the ammunition property I know of ... is the Artificer repeating shot infusion which converts the weapon to magical and automatically reloads it. This bypasses both the ammunition and the loading properties of the weapon.
So if you want the LOOK of holding and firing two hand crossbows then the only way is to have a couple of artificer friends use the repeating shot infusion on them. However, as mentioned, it has NO mechanical benefit - it is just a look/style.
Sorry I inversed it i wanted to say the problem is not the Loading property but the Ammunition needing a free hand ☺
Right. So you would have two use two object interactions to load them ahead of time (which is probably no big deal since that would likely happen before initiative is rolled anyway) and once you fire them both, you need to figure out a way to free up a hand to load from that point onward.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Important to note that there is literally no mechanical advantage of using two hand crossbows, even with XBE.