Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A longsword +1 does have a value, according to the DMG, it is up to the DM to decide the value and suggests 101-500gp as a value. So provided your DM doesn't rule that a +1 longsword costs less than 1sp, then you should be fine.
Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
DM fiat; Booming Blade uses the word "worth", like other spells with costly PHB components, but a question never explicitly addressed by the rules is what "worth" means. Items you buy normally have a cost, not a worth, and we often have threads on here asking about that dichotomy - i.e. do spells check against the local economy, or not? The DMG makes this worse: p135 has optional rules that only trigger if the DM's campaign allows for trade in magic items, and if they trigger, the DM assigns a value to the item, which the entry implies is equivalent to price. See how none of these words repeat? So it's a fine question what they really refer to. Xanathar's then compounds the issue with rules for what amounts to buying magic items without going through the normal purchasing rules, meaning the amount you pay using Xanathar's is not only somewhat random - you literally roll for it - but it also does not mean the item you paid 100 gold for is worth 100 gold.
A longsword +1 does have a value, according to the DMG, it is up to the DM to decide the value and suggests 101-500gp as a value. So provided your DM doesn't rule that a +1 longsword costs less than 1sp, then you should be fine.
It is always up to the DM to ultimately determine the value of anything and everything, they always have the final say and can declare anything is worth anything or nothing. But if there isn't a listed cost for the item, it doesn't have a listed value and seems it isn't eligible for the spell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
DM fiat; Booming Blade uses the word "worth", like other spells with costly PHB components, but a question never explicitly addressed by the rules is what "worth" means. Items you buy normally have a cost, not a worth, and we often have threads on here asking about that dichotomy - i.e. do spells check against the local economy, or not? The DMG makes this worse: p135 has optional rules that only trigger if the DM's campaign allows for trade in magic items, and if they trigger, the DM assigns a value to the item, which the entry implies is equivalent to price. See how none of these words repeat? So it's a fine question what they really refer to. Xanathar's then compounds the issue with rules for what amounts to buying magic items without going through the normal purchasing rules, meaning the amount you pay using Xanathar's is not only somewhat random - you literally roll for it - but it also does not mean the item you paid 100 gold for is worth 100 gold.
Good information. Thanks.
tl;dr There is no RAW answer, ask your DM.
When people come to a rule forum seeking guidance the "go ask ur dm" reply is genuinely unhelpful and dismissive.
Obviously DM has final say on how anything works in practice, at the table. But what if I play at multiple tables, and want to better understand the RAW when discussing it with multiple DMs, or what if I am sometimes a DM and want guidance on what the RAW is so I can make better rulings? Asking myself isn't going to get me very far.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
DM fiat; Booming Blade uses the word "worth", like other spells with costly PHB components, but a question never explicitly addressed by the rules is what "worth" means. Items you buy normally have a cost, not a worth, and we often have threads on here asking about that dichotomy - i.e. do spells check against the local economy, or not? The DMG makes this worse: p135 has optional rules that only trigger if the DM's campaign allows for trade in magic items, and if they trigger, the DM assigns a value to the item, which the entry implies is equivalent to price. See how none of these words repeat? So it's a fine question what they really refer to. Xanathar's then compounds the issue with rules for what amounts to buying magic items without going through the normal purchasing rules, meaning the amount you pay using Xanathar's is not only somewhat random - you literally roll for it - but it also does not mean the item you paid 100 gold for is worth 100 gold.
Good information. Thanks.
tl;dr There is no RAW answer, ask your DM.
When people come to a rule forum seeking guidance the "go ask ur dm" reply is genuinely unhelpful and dismissive.
Obviously DM has final say on how anything works in practice, at the table. But what if I play at multiple tables, and want to better understand the RAW when discussing it with multiple DMs, or what if I am sometimes a DM and want guidance on what the RAW is so I can make better rulings? Asking myself isn't going to get me very far.
I didn't say "go ask ur DM" - I actively affirmed that the RAW answer didn't exist, which is wildly different from insisting you ask your DM for the RAW. The answer in 5E is often "the RAW is muddled in this, that, and the other way; only the DM can, by fiat, come to a solution so you can play". I'm not being lazy or dismissive.
Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
It is definitely RAI for magic weapons to be worth as much or more than their nonmagic counterparts.
Longswords have a worth of 15gp. Magic items cost more.
Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
It is definitely RAI for magic weapons to be worth as much or more than their nonmagic counterparts.
Longswords have a worth of 15gp. Magic items cost more.
It will always meet the component requirement.
Hmm, yeah, that is true. A +1 longsword is still a type of longsword and thus has a listed price of at least a longsword (and obviously is worth more).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Hmm, yeah, that is true. A +1 longsword is still a type of longsword and thus has a listed price of at least a longsword (and obviously is worth more).
While "a longsword is a longsword, and a longsword is 15 gp+" is plenty logical and straightforward, I think you'll find plenty of people (including Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford) hopping back across the line when the shoe is on the other foot for a magical longsword conjured with a Wizard's Minor Conjuration, arguing that a magical longsword does not have a listed price if it isn't mundane. "Magic is worth more, unless its the wrong kind of magic, in which case it's worthless" is a crappy "go ask your DM" answer, but hey, that's what micromanaging 1 cp component costs gets you.
Hmm, yeah, that is true. A +1 longsword is still a type of longsword and thus has a listed price of at least a longsword (and obviously is worth more).
While "a longsword is a longsword, and a longsword is 15 gp+" is plenty logical and straightforward, I think you'll find plenty of people (including Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford) hopping back across the line when the shoe is on the other foot for a magical longsword conjured with a Wizard's Minor Conjuration, arguing that a magical longsword does not have a listed price if it isn't mundane. "Magic is worth more, unless its the wrong kind of magic, in which case it's worthless" is a crappy "go ask your DM" answer, but hey, that's what micromanaging 1 cp component costs gets you.
So a temporarily conjured object having no value while an object that actually exists does is a contradiction?
No, but it shows that the simplification "if it's a longsword, it's 15 gp+" or "magical stuff is always more valuable than regular stuff" maybe doesn't always ring true for some people.
Personally, I think that conjured objects absolutely have their normal value for their duration before vanishing, it's complicated and meanspirited to rule otherwise. But if you disagree and say that a conjured magic sword is not only less valuable than a mundane longsword but should in fact be treated as absolutely worthless to the point that spells refuse to work with it.... I dunno, its not a big stretch to say that "priceless" magic items are also similarly "worthless" for spells.
Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
I believe the purpose of the 1 sp rule with Booming Blade is to exclude conjured weapons like Shadow Blade. A +1 longsword is certainly worth far more than 1 sp.
Hmm, yeah, that is true. A +1 longsword is still a type of longsword and thus has a listed price of at least a longsword (and obviously is worth more).
While "a longsword is a longsword, and a longsword is 15 gp+" is plenty logical and straightforward, I think you'll find plenty of people (including Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford) hopping back across the line when the shoe is on the other foot for a magical longsword conjured with a Wizard's Minor Conjuration, arguing that a magical longsword does not have a listed price if it isn't mundane. "Magic is worth more, unless its the wrong kind of magic, in which case it's worthless" is a crappy "go ask your DM" answer, but hey, that's what micromanaging 1 cp component costs gets you.
A Longsword, +1 and a longsword created by magic are not the same. The former is considered a Magic Item, often crafted by craftsmen or artisans over a longer period of time (see relevant phrases below). The latter can simply be considered a magical effect and can be created by magic within seconds.
"The creation of a magic item is a lengthy, expensive task."
"Most magic items are objects of extraordinary artisanship, assembled from the finest materials with meticulous attention to detail. Thanks to this combination of careful crafting and magical reinforcement, a magic item is at least as durable as a regular item of its kind."
The most important distinction between the two is the fact that all Magic Items have an associated rarity (generally):
Magic Items
Each magic item has a rarity: common, uncommon, rare, very rare, or legendary.
Another thing I believe supports the distinction between Magical Items and items simply created by magic is the item's permanence as described in the rules. Two degrees of permanence are described in the rules regarding Magic Items: Consumable and Permanent. Example below:
The value of a consumable item, such as a potion or scroll, is typically half the value of a permanent item of the same rarity.
I don't believe any other distinction is made regarding item permanence in the context of Magic Items. All in all, the rules seem to describe a Magic Item as a mundane item that has had magical properties inferred onto it with no expiration date.
Regarding the actual worth (a relative term) of a Magical Item, I'd say the value (an equally relative term) given in the DMG is the numbers to go by.
Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
I believe the purpose of the 1 sp rule with Booming Blade is to exclude conjured weapons like Shadow Blade. A +1 longsword is certainly worth far more than 1 sp.
Can you explain why you think that is the purpose? I was under the impression it had something to do with fixing some odd interaction with component pouches.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The fact remains that minor conjuration hands you a working physical real Longsword, which glows with magic, but which JC would tell you is WORTHLESS (not even worth 1 cp) while it exists. An item so metaphysically compromised that no matter what value a person may assign to it or it’s physical similarity to other swords, it fundamentally refuses to interact with the weave of magic for spells requiring a sword.
If he’s wrong about that (and I have no problem accepting he is, since there’s no rule text calling that conjured sword worthless, and it’s a shockingly far reaching ruling to make with no support), then fine… no reason to assume magic is worthless, and a longsword is a longsword is a longseord. But if he’s right that it’s worthless, it’s unclear to see the bright line of why it’s worthless and the +1 sword isn’t. I can see it being worth LESS than the +1 sword, and even less than a real sword… but WORTHLESS is something else altogether. From the perspective of the PHB listing item costs, a +1 sword has as much or more in common with a conjured one (magic, no listed cost) than it has with a real one.
The fact remains that minor conjuration hands you a working physical real Longsword, which glows with magic, but which JC would tell you is WORTHLESS (not even worth 1 cp) while it exists. An item so metaphysically compromised that no matter what value a person may assign to it or it’s physical similarity to other swords, it fundamentally refuses to interact with the weave of magic for spells requiring a sword.
If he’s wrong about that (and I have no problem accepting he is, since there’s no rule text calling that conjured sword worthless, and it’s a shockingly far reaching ruling to make with no support), then fine… no reason to assume magic is worthless, and a longsword is a longsword is a longseord. But if he’s right that it’s worthless, it’s unclear to see the bright line of why it’s worthless and the +1 sword isn’t. I can see it being worth LESS than the +1 sword, and even less than a real sword… but WORTHLESS is something else altogether. From the perspective of the PHB listing item costs, a +1 sword has as much or more in common with a conjured one (magic, no listed cost) than it has with a real one.
Spell components ask for worth and the DMG gives you a Magic Item's value. A conjured weapon is not a Magical Item and thus is not included in the value ascribed to Magical Items.
Edit: This is my interpretation based on my analysis in my previous comment
The fact remains that minor conjuration hands you a working physical real Longsword, which glows with magic, but which JC would tell you is WORTHLESS (not even worth 1 cp) while it exists. An item so metaphysically compromised that no matter what value a person may assign to it or it’s physical similarity to other swords, it fundamentally refuses to interact with the weave of magic for spells requiring a sword.
If he’s wrong about that (and I have no problem accepting he is, since there’s no rule text calling that conjured sword worthless, and it’s a shockingly far reaching ruling to make with no support), then fine… no reason to assume magic is worthless, and a longsword is a longsword is a longseord. But if he’s right that it’s worthless, it’s unclear to see the bright line of why it’s worthless and the +1 sword isn’t. I can see it being worth LESS than the +1 sword, and even less than a real sword… but WORTHLESS is something else altogether. From the perspective of the PHB listing item costs, a +1 sword has as much or more in common with a conjured one (magic, no listed cost) than it has with a real one.
Highlight is my emphasis. Let's say you conjure your Shadow Blade, and try to sell it at your local market. Let's imagine that you manage to sell this magical (insert weapon type here) for somewhere in the ballpark of 100-500 GP. Your customer gladly hands over their coin purse, you relinquish the item to their control and ...... well - POOF! "It dissipates at the end of the turn." Then, the unlucky mark customer has the annoying problem of trying to get the purchase price back from you. To me, it makes complete sense to make the "item" worthless. This doesn't make it "wrong" kind of magic, it makes it different. If you spend the time, effort and energy to craft a physical item (albeit in a game relying on suspension of disbelief) and then further allocate time, mystical and magical energies, components, spell slots and potentially exhaustion into the enchanting of said physical item. That makes it "worth" something. The crafters effort, not the weave that "creates" it.
Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
I believe the purpose of the 1 sp rule with Booming Blade is to exclude conjured weapons like Shadow Blade. A +1 longsword is certainly worth far more than 1 sp.
Can you explain why you think that is the purpose? I was under the impression it had something to do with fixing some odd interaction with component pouches.
The implied and possibly stated purpose behind the editing of the spell descriptions for Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade are to stop the Shadow Blade combo with either of those cantrips. If you expend a 3rd level slot on Shadow Blade, it hits for 3d8 psychic damage (rarely resisted damage type), @ 7th level, Booming Blade hits for an additional 1d8 thunder damage on a successful hit, and an additional 2d8 thunder damage if the target moves 5 feet or more. So quick and dirty, BA Shadow Blade @ 3rd, A Booming Blade as 7th level PC -> Successful hit = 15(3d8)psychic + 5(1d8) thunder with the potential for an additional 10(2d8) if the target decides to move. Let's also say that our aggressor is a 5th level Arcane Trickster Rogue so if we get to add our SA(Sneak Attack) to this pile of shenanigans we get to add on 16(4d6) more points of damage. So far we're at 36 average damage. What happens when we crit? Well, I'm glad you asked! All of the damage dice double of course. If this works.. average damage in the 60s for one strike from a single 7th level PC. Hard to beat!
This gets even better with Steel Wind Strike but takes longer to setup and execute.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
The implied and possibly stated purpose behind the editing of the spell descriptions for Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade are to stop the Shadow Blade combo with either of those cantrips. If you expend a 3rd level slot on Shadow Blade, it hits for 3d8 psychic damage (rarely resisted damage type), @ 7th level, Booming Blade hits for an additional 1d8 thunder damage on a successful hit, and an additional 2d8 thunder damage if the target moves 5 feet or more. So quick and dirty, BA Shadow Blade @ 3rd, A Booming Blade as 7th level PC -> Successful hit = 15(3d8)psychic + 5(1d8) thunder with the potential for an additional 10(2d8) if the target decides to move. Let's also say that our aggressor is a 5th level Arcane Trickster Rogue so if we get to add our SA(Sneak Attack) to this pile of shenanigans we get to add on 16(4d6) more points of damage. So far we're at 36 average damage. What happens when we crit? Well, I'm glad you asked! All of the damage dice double of course. If this works.. average damage in the 60s for one strike from a single 7th level PC. Hard to beat!
This gets even better with Steel Wind Strike but takes longer to setup and execute.
There's no possible interaction with Steel Wind Strike - SWS's performance is entirely independent of the M component. You can cast it with a club or a greatsword and it'll work the same way.
I'm convinced you're right about other interactions, though - that the purpose behind the 1sp bugbear was blocking using the two spells with spell-conjured weapons, and like most of Tasha's, the content wasn't playtested at all, just written and shipped, causing widespread confusion about things as simple as an Armorer using the two spells with their Guardian gauntlets. If they'd changed the spell from Range 5 feet to Range Touch and removed the M component entirely, instead specifying that the spell targets a weapon, they could have used the text of the spell to explain themselves about the desired targeting restrictions on the weapon, and we wouldn't be here today.
Clarifying, the M component of all of the spells is ultimately the point here. The purpose behind mentioning SWS is to include another example of the editorial change for weapons with worth. I see how my comment was potentially misleading. Thanks for catching it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Spell components ask for worth and the DMG gives you a Magic Item's value. A conjured weapon is not a Magical Item and thus is not included in the value ascribed to Magical Items.
Does it?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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Say you have a +1 longsword and want to use it in the casting of Booming Blade. This weapon, being a magic item, has no listed value. Is it not eligible for being used with this spell?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A longsword +1 does have a value, according to the DMG, it is up to the DM to decide the value and suggests 101-500gp as a value. So provided your DM doesn't rule that a +1 longsword costs less than 1sp, then you should be fine.
DM fiat; Booming Blade uses the word "worth", like other spells with costly PHB components, but a question never explicitly addressed by the rules is what "worth" means. Items you buy normally have a cost, not a worth, and we often have threads on here asking about that dichotomy - i.e. do spells check against the local economy, or not? The DMG makes this worse: p135 has optional rules that only trigger if the DM's campaign allows for trade in magic items, and if they trigger, the DM assigns a value to the item, which the entry implies is equivalent to price. See how none of these words repeat? So it's a fine question what they really refer to. Xanathar's then compounds the issue with rules for what amounts to buying magic items without going through the normal purchasing rules, meaning the amount you pay using Xanathar's is not only somewhat random - you literally roll for it - but it also does not mean the item you paid 100 gold for is worth 100 gold.
tl;dr There is no RAW answer, ask your DM.
It is always up to the DM to ultimately determine the value of anything and everything, they always have the final say and can declare anything is worth anything or nothing. But if there isn't a listed cost for the item, it doesn't have a listed value and seems it isn't eligible for the spell.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Good information. Thanks.
When people come to a rule forum seeking guidance the "go ask ur dm" reply is genuinely unhelpful and dismissive.
Obviously DM has final say on how anything works in practice, at the table. But what if I play at multiple tables, and want to better understand the RAW when discussing it with multiple DMs, or what if I am sometimes a DM and want guidance on what the RAW is so I can make better rulings? Asking myself isn't going to get me very far.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I didn't say "go ask ur DM" - I actively affirmed that the RAW answer didn't exist, which is wildly different from insisting you ask your DM for the RAW. The answer in 5E is often "the RAW is muddled in this, that, and the other way; only the DM can, by fiat, come to a solution so you can play". I'm not being lazy or dismissive.
It is definitely RAI for magic weapons to be worth as much or more than their nonmagic counterparts.
Longswords have a worth of 15gp. Magic items cost more.
It will always meet the component requirement.
Hmm, yeah, that is true. A +1 longsword is still a type of longsword and thus has a listed price of at least a longsword (and obviously is worth more).
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
While "a longsword is a longsword, and a longsword is 15 gp+" is plenty logical and straightforward, I think you'll find plenty of people (including Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford) hopping back across the line when the shoe is on the other foot for a magical longsword conjured with a Wizard's Minor Conjuration, arguing that a magical longsword does not have a listed price if it isn't mundane. "Magic is worth more, unless its the wrong kind of magic, in which case it's worthless" is a crappy "go ask your DM" answer, but hey, that's what micromanaging 1 cp component costs gets you.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
So a temporarily conjured object having no value while an object that actually exists does is a contradiction?
No, but it shows that the simplification "if it's a longsword, it's 15 gp+" or "magical stuff is always more valuable than regular stuff" maybe doesn't always ring true for some people.
Personally, I think that conjured objects absolutely have their normal value for their duration before vanishing, it's complicated and meanspirited to rule otherwise. But if you disagree and say that a conjured magic sword is not only less valuable than a mundane longsword but should in fact be treated as absolutely worthless to the point that spells refuse to work with it.... I dunno, its not a big stretch to say that "priceless" magic items are also similarly "worthless" for spells.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I believe the purpose of the 1 sp rule with Booming Blade is to exclude conjured weapons like Shadow Blade. A +1 longsword is certainly worth far more than 1 sp.
A Longsword, +1 and a longsword created by magic are not the same. The former is considered a Magic Item, often crafted by craftsmen or artisans over a longer period of time (see relevant phrases below). The latter can simply be considered a magical effect and can be created by magic within seconds.
The most important distinction between the two is the fact that all Magic Items have an associated rarity (generally):
I don't believe any other distinction is made regarding item permanence in the context of Magic Items. All in all, the rules seem to describe a Magic Item as a mundane item that has had magical properties inferred onto it with no expiration date.
Regarding the actual worth (a relative term) of a Magical Item, I'd say the value (an equally relative term) given in the DMG is the numbers to go by.
Magic Item Rarity
Can you explain why you think that is the purpose? I was under the impression it had something to do with fixing some odd interaction with component pouches.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The fact remains that minor conjuration hands you a working physical real Longsword, which glows with magic, but which JC would tell you is WORTHLESS (not even worth 1 cp) while it exists. An item so metaphysically compromised that no matter what value a person may assign to it or it’s physical similarity to other swords, it fundamentally refuses to interact with the weave of magic for spells requiring a sword.
If he’s wrong about that (and I have no problem accepting he is, since there’s no rule text calling that conjured sword worthless, and it’s a shockingly far reaching ruling to make with no support), then fine… no reason to assume magic is worthless, and a longsword is a longsword is a longseord. But if he’s right that it’s worthless, it’s unclear to see the bright line of why it’s worthless and the +1 sword isn’t. I can see it being worth LESS than the +1 sword, and even less than a real sword… but WORTHLESS is something else altogether. From the perspective of the PHB listing item costs, a +1 sword has as much or more in common with a conjured one (magic, no listed cost) than it has with a real one.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Spell components ask for worth and the DMG gives you a Magic Item's value. A conjured weapon is not a Magical Item and thus is not included in the value ascribed to Magical Items.
Edit: This is my interpretation based on my analysis in my previous comment
Highlight is my emphasis. Let's say you conjure your Shadow Blade, and try to sell it at your local market. Let's imagine that you manage to sell this magical (insert weapon type here) for somewhere in the ballpark of 100-500 GP. Your customer gladly hands over their coin purse, you relinquish the item to their control and ...... well - POOF! "It dissipates at the end of the turn." Then, the unlucky
markcustomer has the annoying problem of trying to get the purchase price back from you. To me, it makes complete sense to make the "item" worthless. This doesn't make it "wrong" kind of magic, it makes it different. If you spend the time, effort and energy to craft a physical item (albeit in a game relying on suspension of disbelief) and then further allocate time, mystical and magical energies, components, spell slots and potentially exhaustion into the enchanting of said physical item. That makes it "worth" something. The crafters effort, not the weave that "creates" it.The implied and possibly stated purpose behind the editing of the spell descriptions for Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade are to stop the Shadow Blade combo with either of those cantrips. If you expend a 3rd level slot on Shadow Blade, it hits for 3d8 psychic damage (rarely resisted damage type), @ 7th level, Booming Blade hits for an additional 1d8 thunder damage on a successful hit, and an additional 2d8 thunder damage if the target moves 5 feet or more. So quick and dirty, BA Shadow Blade @ 3rd, A Booming Blade as 7th level PC -> Successful hit = 15(3d8)psychic + 5(1d8) thunder with the potential for an additional 10(2d8) if the target decides to move. Let's also say that our aggressor is a 5th level Arcane Trickster Rogue so if we get to add our SA(Sneak Attack) to this pile of shenanigans we get to add on 16(4d6) more points of damage. So far we're at 36 average damage. What happens when we crit? Well, I'm glad you asked! All of the damage dice double of course. If this works.. average damage in the 60s for one strike from a single 7th level PC. Hard to beat!
This gets even better with Steel Wind Strike but takes longer to setup and execute.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
There's no possible interaction with Steel Wind Strike - SWS's performance is entirely independent of the M component. You can cast it with a club or a greatsword and it'll work the same way.
I'm convinced you're right about other interactions, though - that the purpose behind the 1sp bugbear was blocking using the two spells with spell-conjured weapons, and like most of Tasha's, the content wasn't playtested at all, just written and shipped, causing widespread confusion about things as simple as an Armorer using the two spells with their Guardian gauntlets. If they'd changed the spell from Range 5 feet to Range Touch and removed the M component entirely, instead specifying that the spell targets a weapon, they could have used the text of the spell to explain themselves about the desired targeting restrictions on the weapon, and we wouldn't be here today.
Clarifying, the M component of all of the spells is ultimately the point here. The purpose behind mentioning SWS is to include another example of the editorial change for weapons with worth. I see how my comment was potentially misleading. Thanks for catching it.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Does it?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.