The underlying point is that whether or not teleportation is considered movement, teleportation is implied to be a (non-obscure) specific rule that supercedes the general.
In the event of ambiguity, a feature, like Booming Blade, should be expected to address it explicitly. If it doesn't then teleportation continues to be exceptional.
Creating new rules or modifying existing rules is Homebrewing whether you like that fact or not.
Every, and I mean Every, game requires some sort of interpretation of rules. If you call that homebrewing, that is fine, but I'd argue that is a mis-application of the term. Interpreting a rule differently than Ravnodaus is not creating a new rule or modifying an existing rule, it is interpretation, and is one of the roles of the DM to do.
If that's how you read what I said here, that explains things.
Teleportation doesn't have a movement speed because it isn't a type of movement. And, as you point out, for good reason. It doesn't work the same way movement works. Giving it a speed and trying to force it to work like movement does would cause a LOT of problems.
I and others are not advocating this, we are saying that motion exists that does not use speed, and that every reference in the rules to "movement" "move" "moving" and it's synonyms do not follow the rules for movement set out in Chapters 8 and 9. (note the bold, which is how the rules are formatted when they reference an actual game term)
Teleporting can be done entirely motionless. You can even teleport completely inanimate objects. They don't have movement of any kind. They cannot even move at all. You could potentially move them, but they can't move themselves.
Are you guys just mixing up "They can move" with "They can be moved"? That'd probably explain a lot too.
Sure, you can magically Fly. Or Magically Jump. Or even magically Walk fast. All those "sorts" of movement still obey the established rules for movement types.
Because they are examples of movement.
Right, if the movement rules don't explain how it works, then it isn't one of the types of movement provided in the rules.
They do, or follow rules for them and are a subset of them. Jumping, for example, is a special type of Walking movement.
Falling doesn't, yet it is a type of movement (plain english, note the lack of bold), as is being pushed/pulled by a spell, or riding a vehicle in motion.
Is it? Are they? You are certainly claiming that is true. But, there is zero evidence of it actually being true provided for from the text. So these are unsupported claims. I'm a prehistoric semi-aquatic reptile looking for about tree fiddy. <--- Also an unsupported claim.
The rules address the types of movement. If you wish to create new ones that is homebrewing.
We aren't creating a type of movement, we are defining these "forced relocations" as movement (plain english, note the lack of bold) because that is what they are in the plainest terms. You forcing the use of a convoluted term to describe these is not RAW, which describes many of these as "move" "movement" or "moving"
If your whole argument is you're not discussing the rules in the terms the book uses and instead wanna just casually refer to things by other words because you like doing so, then, go for it? You can create whatever cipher you enjoy using. But expect it to be read by people without your magic decoder ring as what you're saying is incorrect.
The books do not address Teleportation as a type of movement. Claiming they do is strictly false. Can you call them that anyway? Sure, free country right? You're totally allowed to be wrong.
Are you arguing that anything a DM says is somehow RAW if they simply don't bother to know how it works in the first place? Hot take.
No, but anything a DM says is law for the table they are DM'ing at. There is no such thing as a fully RAW table (unless the table is very very boring), because the RAW is not complete enough to address every situation that may come up
Discussing the rules directly and discussing how to fluidly run a D&D table are two different though sometimes related conversations. Here, we've been discussing the rules themselves.
And they'd be correct. Deviated from the Rules as Written, by creating additional rules, changing the way a rule works, adding options that don't exist in the printed pages of the books... is homebrewing.
Again, do you play a RAW-only game? Have you never encountered a situation the RAW did not explicitly cover?
Again, here in the Rules and Mechanics forum, we discuss the rules directly. If you want to have a conversation on how to better run your games we could hop over to the DM Only forum? Maybe the General forum if you're just a player with general questions about the game that aren't Rules specific? Or maybe even the Homebrew and House Rules forum if RAW really is something you disagree with this much.
For the record, I fully support homebrewing and think more people should be comfortable accepting the fact that the weird things they do differently from the book is called homebrew. You wanna treat one thing as a different thing even if the books say otherwise? More power to you. Homebrew loud and proud. Think thousand years is too long to live and sleep is required for all mortals? Fine, modify those elves. Homebrew! Think the fact adamantine armor prevents crits is silly because a crit represents hitting you specifically where the armor isn't protecting? Homebrew it! Think every kind of relocation should all be treated and classified under a sweeping general classification as "movement"? Homebrew! Power to the people man. Run your game the way you wanna run your game.
For someone who claims to think this, you seem to have a lot of problems with people actually doing it. If what we are all doing is homebrew to you (and I'd argue it is not), and you are ok with that, then why the heck have you taken this thread to over 400 posts disagreeing with everyone who dares have a different opinion than you?
Naw. I homebrew a TON of stuff. That isn't a claim, I fully embrace homebrew. The difference is I just do it consciously and intentionally and fully recognize when I do and how it'll affect my games.
As to why I respond when someone posts something demonstrably false? This isn't the place for that. And unsupported or incorrect claims here could cause people to have a poor understanding of the rules. If someone posts a ton of incorrect information should you just ignore it? Some people do. That's fine. I don't.
And, I'm not correcting people who "disagree with me". You're welcome to disagree with me. I'm correcting people who say something directly incorrect and unsupported by the rulebooks.
Claiming Teleportation is movement... is directly incorrect and unsupported by the rulebooks.
But that is a different conversation than what we are having here. Here, in the Rules and mechanics forum, we are discussing how the rule actually works. As the text of the rulebook says it does. Two very different conversations. How you personally, as a DM, choose to rule something is totally your subjective choice and whatever you decide is indeed correct. But regardless of what your subjective opinion tells you about how your game should be run, the RAW remains objective and unchanged. We all can read the words printed in the rulebooks. And how you play your own game doesn't magically alter anyone else's rulebooks.
The RAW is an imperfect document. It is an incomplete document. It is a contradictory and sometimes confusing and poorly written/formatted document. It cannot answer questions it does not contain answers to, because it does not provide many of the building blocks to do so. This is one of those questions.
This isn't one of those questions. The rules cover this plenty well enough. You keep having difficulties with it because you insist that something is happening that the books never say happens.
Teleportation is really very simple.
You stop being where you are.
You start being at your new destination.
Nothing happens in between.
Insisting all day every day that something MUST happen in-between there flies directly in the face of what the rules actually say.
The rules do not call that movement. The rules do not call that moving. Can you call it those things? Sure, you can call that whatever you want. But what you call it doesn't then interact with rules specifically interacting with movement or moving. For the purposes of the rules, and rule interactions, teleportation isn't movement.
You know this too. None of you arguing that "Teleportation" actually treat it like movement. You can still teleport while grappled. You teleport normal listed distances even across difficult terrain. Having your movement slowed or reduced to 0 doesn't stop you from teleporting etc etc. No one. Not one of you, actually treats Teleportation like a form of movement.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
One of the supporting evidences that Teleporting is moving is a line inferring as much from the options available to a prone creature. Right?
Some argue that supports that teleporting is clearly working differently from moving, others argue that inferrence is valid here and therefore it is moving.
Did anyone consult what the Prone Condition itself has to say?
Prone
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
A Prone creature's ONLY movement option is to crawl. But... but... but it can teleport? Guess teleporting isn't movement huh?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Creating new rules or modifying existing rules is Homebrewing whether you like that fact or not.
Every, and I mean Every, game requires some sort of interpretation of rules. If you call that homebrewing, that is fine, but I'd argue that is a mis-application of the term. Interpreting a rule differently than Ravnodaus is not creating a new rule or modifying an existing rule, it is interpretation, and is one of the roles of the DM to do.
If that's how you read what I said here, that explains things.
Teleportation doesn't have a movement speed because it isn't a type of movement. And, as you point out, for good reason. It doesn't work the same way movement works. Giving it a speed and trying to force it to work like movement does would cause a LOT of problems.
I and others are not advocating this, we are saying that motion exists that does not use speed, and that every reference in the rules to "movement" "move" "moving" and it's synonyms do not follow the rules for movement set out in Chapters 8 and 9. (note the bold, which is how the rules are formatted when they reference an actual game term)
Teleporting can be done entirely motionless. You can even teleport completely inanimate objects. They don't have movement of any kind. They cannot even move at all. You could potentially move them, but they can't move themselves.
Are you guys just mixing up "They can move" with "They can be moved"? That'd probably explain a lot too.
Sure, you can magically Fly. Or Magically Jump. Or even magically Walk fast. All those "sorts" of movement still obey the established rules for movement types.
Because they are examples of movement.
Right, if the movement rules don't explain how it works, then it isn't one of the types of movement provided in the rules.
They do, or follow rules for them and are a subset of them. Jumping, for example, is a special type of Walking movement.
Falling doesn't, yet it is a type of movement (plain english, note the lack of bold), as is being pushed/pulled by a spell, or riding a vehicle in motion.
Is it? Are they? You are certainly claiming that is true. But, there is zero evidence of it actually being true provided for from the text. So these are unsupported claims. I'm a prehistoric semi-aquatic reptile looking for about tree fiddy. <--- Also an unsupported claim.
The rules address the types of movement. If you wish to create new ones that is homebrewing.
We aren't creating a type of movement, we are defining these "forced relocations" as movement (plain english, note the lack of bold) because that is what they are in the plainest terms. You forcing the use of a convoluted term to describe these is not RAW, which describes many of these as "move" "movement" or "moving"
If your whole argument is you're not discussing the rules in the terms the book uses and instead wanna just casually refer to things by other words because you like doing so, then, go for it? You can create whatever cipher you enjoy using. But expect it to be read by people without your magic decoder ring as what you're saying is incorrect.
The books do not address Teleportation as a type of movement. Claiming they do is strictly false. Can you call them that anyway? Sure, free country right? You're totally allowed to be wrong.
Are you arguing that anything a DM says is somehow RAW if they simply don't bother to know how it works in the first place? Hot take.
No, but anything a DM says is law for the table they are DM'ing at. There is no such thing as a fully RAW table (unless the table is very very boring), because the RAW is not complete enough to address every situation that may come up
Discussing the rules directly and discussing how to fluidly run a D&D table are two different though sometimes related conversations. Here, we've been discussing the rules themselves.
And they'd be correct. Deviated from the Rules as Written, by creating additional rules, changing the way a rule works, adding options that don't exist in the printed pages of the books... is homebrewing.
Again, do you play a RAW-only game? Have you never encountered a situation the RAW did not explicitly cover?
Again, here in the Rules and Mechanics forum, we discuss the rules directly. If you want to have a conversation on how to better run your games we could hop over to the DM Only forum? Maybe the General forum if you're just a player with general questions about the game that aren't Rules specific? Or maybe even the Homebrew and House Rules forum if RAW really is something you disagree with this much.
For the record, I fully support homebrewing and think more people should be comfortable accepting the fact that the weird things they do differently from the book is called homebrew. You wanna treat one thing as a different thing even if the books say otherwise? More power to you. Homebrew loud and proud. Think thousand years is too long to live and sleep is required for all mortals? Fine, modify those elves. Homebrew! Think the fact adamantine armor prevents crits is silly because a crit represents hitting you specifically where the armor isn't protecting? Homebrew it! Think every kind of relocation should all be treated and classified under a sweeping general classification as "movement"? Homebrew! Power to the people man. Run your game the way you wanna run your game.
For someone who claims to think this, you seem to have a lot of problems with people actually doing it. If what we are all doing is homebrew to you (and I'd argue it is not), and you are ok with that, then why the heck have you taken this thread to over 400 posts disagreeing with everyone who dares have a different opinion than you?
Naw. I homebrew a TON of stuff. That isn't a claim, I fully embrace homebrew. The difference is I just do it consciously and intentionally and fully recognize when I do and how it'll affect my games.
As to why I respond when someone posts something demonstrably false? This isn't the place for that. And unsupported or incorrect claims here could cause people to have a poor understanding of the rules. If someone posts a ton of incorrect information should you just ignore it? Some people do. That's fine. I don't.
And, I'm not correcting people who "disagree with me". You're welcome to disagree with me. I'm correcting people who say something directly incorrect and unsupported by the rulebooks.
Claiming Teleportation is movement... is directly incorrect and unsupported by the rulebooks.
But that is a different conversation than what we are having here. Here, in the Rules and mechanics forum, we are discussing how the rule actually works. As the text of the rulebook says it does. Two very different conversations. How you personally, as a DM, choose to rule something is totally your subjective choice and whatever you decide is indeed correct. But regardless of what your subjective opinion tells you about how your game should be run, the RAW remains objective and unchanged. We all can read the words printed in the rulebooks. And how you play your own game doesn't magically alter anyone else's rulebooks.
The RAW is an imperfect document. It is an incomplete document. It is a contradictory and sometimes confusing and poorly written/formatted document. It cannot answer questions it does not contain answers to, because it does not provide many of the building blocks to do so. This is one of those questions.
This isn't one of those questions. The rules cover this plenty well enough. You keep having difficulties with it because you insist that something is happening that the books never say happens.
Teleportation is really very simple.
You stop being where you are.
You start being at your new destination.
Nothing happens in between.
Insisting all day every day that something MUST happen in-between there flies directly in the face of what the rules actually say.
The rules do not call that movement. The rules do not call that moving. Can you call it those things? Sure, you can call that whatever you want. But what you call it doesn't then interact with rules specifically interacting with movement or moving. For the purposes of the rules, and rule interactions, teleportation isn't movement.
You know this too. None of you arguing that "Teleportation" actually treat it like movement. You can still teleport while grappled. You teleport normal listed distances even across difficult terrain. Having your movement slowed or reduced to 0 doesn't stop you from teleporting etc etc. No one. Not one of you, actually treats Teleportation like a form of movement.
And you sir are wrong, as I have been arguing "teleportation" is a special type of movement according the the rules and mechanics of spellcasting, since "teleporting" is a magical effect.
One of the supporting evidences that Teleporting is moving is a line inferring as much from the options available to a prone creature. Right?
Some argue that supports that teleporting is clearly working differently from moving, others argue that inferrence is valid here and therefore it is moving.
Did anyone consult what the Prone Condition itself has to say?
Prone
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
A Prone creature's ONLY movement option is to crawl. But... but... but it can teleport? Guess teleporting isn't movement huh?
Chapter 9: combat -
B e i n g P r o n e Combatants often find themselves lying on the ground, either because they are knocked down or because they throw themselves down. In the game, they are prone, a condition described in appendix A. You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet o f movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.
To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation. Every foot o f movement while crawling costs 1 extra foot. Crawling 1 foot in difficult terrain, therefore, costs 3 feet o f movement.
This might help, or it might further confuse things (Jeremy Crawford via Twitter):
Teleportation is instantaneous in D&D, moving you from one spot to another. You don't move through the intervening space.
That means a spell like dimension door is unaffected by a wall of force. #DnD
The phrasing here roughly implies that teleportation is a *magical effect* that happens *to* the target, not something they are *doing*, per se.
Yeah totally.
Willy the Wizard "Casts Teleport" and is moved 20ft, he doesn't perform the action of teleporting.
I'm not sure this is true, the distance moved bit. The "action of" is spot on though. But on the distance, he says: From one spot to another. You don't move through the intervening space. That seems like simple math.
He is essentially saying when you teleport you get moved from A to B (how far teleported) minus the distance between A and B (that you do not move through).
So, if distance from A to B is 20ft... that means he is moved 20ft, minus 20ft. Or, simply put... 0 ft.
Intervening obstacles are rendered irrelevant. Whether it's a wall, opportunity attack, or a non-teleport specific triggerable effect, it doesn't come into play.
True
Edit: As a truly instantaneous effect, there is no point at which it is happening. You can willingly accept the effect of a spell, but there is no point at which a character is "willingly teleporting", because it is non-temporal.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
One of the supporting evidences that Teleporting is moving is a line inferring as much from the options available to a prone creature. Right?
Some argue that supports that teleporting is clearly working differently from moving, others argue that inferrence is valid here and therefore it is moving.
Did anyone consult what the Prone Condition itself has to say?
Prone
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
A Prone creature's ONLY movement option is to crawl. But... but... but it can teleport? Guess teleporting isn't movement huh?
Chapter 9: combat -
B e i n g P r o n e Combatants often find themselves lying on the ground, either because they are knocked down or because they throw themselves down. In the game, they are prone, a condition described in appendix A. You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet o f movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.
To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation. Every foot o f movement while crawling costs 1 extra foot. Crawling 1 foot in difficult terrain, therefore, costs 3 feet o f movement.
one is a condition, one is a Rule As Written.
Yes, a Rule As Written that tells you how teleportation doesn't suffer the same restriction in this instance that movement does.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
One of the supporting evidences that Teleporting is moving is a line inferring as much from the options available to a prone creature. Right?
Some argue that supports that teleporting is clearly working differently from moving, others argue that inferrence is valid here and therefore it is moving.
Did anyone consult what the Prone Condition itself has to say?
Prone
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
A Prone creature's ONLY movement option is to crawl. But... but... but it can teleport? Guess teleporting isn't movement huh?
Chapter 9: combat -
B e i n g P r o n e Combatants often find themselves lying on the ground, either because they are knocked down or because they throw themselves down. In the game, they are prone, a condition described in appendix A. You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet o f movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.
To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation. Every foot o f movement while crawling costs 1 extra foot. Crawling 1 foot in difficult terrain, therefore, costs 3 feet o f movement.
one is a condition, one is a Rule As Written.
Yes, a Rule As Written that tells you how teleportation doesn't suffer the same restriction in this instance that movement does.
Yet if you use magic such as teleportation while prone, the rule states you have "moved", and the distance "moved" is defined by the teleportation spell.
One of the supporting evidences that Teleporting is moving is a line inferring as much from the options available to a prone creature. Right?
Some argue that supports that teleporting is clearly working differently from moving, others argue that inferrence is valid here and therefore it is moving.
Did anyone consult what the Prone Condition itself has to say?
Prone
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
A Prone creature's ONLY movement option is to crawl. But... but... but it can teleport? Guess teleporting isn't movement huh?
Chapter 9: combat -
B e i n g P r o n e Combatants often find themselves lying on the ground, either because they are knocked down or because they throw themselves down. In the game, they are prone, a condition described in appendix A. You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet o f movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.
To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation. Every foot o f movement while crawling costs 1 extra foot. Crawling 1 foot in difficult terrain, therefore, costs 3 feet o f movement.
one is a condition, one is a Rule As Written.
Yes, a Rule As Written that tells you how teleportation doesn't suffer the same restriction in this instance that movement does.
Yet if you use magic such as teleportation while prone, the rule states you have "moved", and the distance "moved" is defined by the teleportation spell.
So you're agreeing it isn't movement?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
One of the supporting evidences that Teleporting is moving is a line inferring as much from the options available to a prone creature. Right?
Some argue that supports that teleporting is clearly working differently from moving, others argue that inferrence is valid here and therefore it is moving.
Did anyone consult what the Prone Condition itself has to say?
Prone
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
A Prone creature's ONLY movement option is to crawl. But... but... but it can teleport? Guess teleporting isn't movement huh?
Chapter 9: combat -
B e i n g P r o n e Combatants often find themselves lying on the ground, either because they are knocked down or because they throw themselves down. In the game, they are prone, a condition described in appendix A. You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet o f movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.
To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation. Every foot o f movement while crawling costs 1 extra foot. Crawling 1 foot in difficult terrain, therefore, costs 3 feet o f movement.
one is a condition, one is a Rule As Written.
Yes, a Rule As Written that tells you how teleportation doesn't suffer the same restriction in this instance that movement does.
Yet if you use magic such as teleportation while prone, the rule states you have "moved", and the distance "moved" is defined by the teleportation spell.
So you're agreeing it isn't movement?
I am clearly stating that it is Movement, as defined by the bolded words " To move while prone"
One of the supporting evidences that Teleporting is moving is a line inferring as much from the options available to a prone creature. Right?
Some argue that supports that teleporting is clearly working differently from moving, others argue that inferrence is valid here and therefore it is moving.
Did anyone consult what the Prone Condition itself has to say?
Prone
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
The creature has disadvantage on attack rolls.
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
A Prone creature's ONLY movement option is to crawl. But... but... but it can teleport? Guess teleporting isn't movement huh?
Chapter 9: combat -
B e i n g P r o n e Combatants often find themselves lying on the ground, either because they are knocked down or because they throw themselves down. In the game, they are prone, a condition described in appendix A. You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet o f movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.
To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation. Every foot o f movement while crawling costs 1 extra foot. Crawling 1 foot in difficult terrain, therefore, costs 3 feet o f movement.
one is a condition, one is a Rule As Written.
Yes, a Rule As Written that tells you how teleportation doesn't suffer the same restriction in this instance that movement does.
Yet if you use magic such as teleportation while prone, the rule states you have "moved", and the distance "moved" is defined by the teleportation spell.
So you're agreeing it isn't movement?
I am clearly stating that it is Movement, as defined by the bolded words " To move while prone"
See the bolded red phrase. Your only Movement option, while prone, is to crawl. Period. Black and White.
Look. Both of these things are true, and direct RAW quotes:
"A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition."
"To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation."
Reconcile. Repeating question: Is teleportation movement?
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
1. an act of changing physical location or position or of having this changed.
definition of Teleportation:
in fiction : instantaneous travel between two locations without crossing the intervening space.
definition of Move:
verb
go in a specified direction or manner; change position
noun
a change of place, position, or state.
Plain English, Teleportation is Movement that Moves you.
Which section of the rules did this come from?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
1. an act of changing physical location or position or of having this changed.
definition of Teleportation:
in fiction : instantaneous travel between two locations without crossing the intervening space.
definition of Move:
verb
go in a specified direction or manner; change position
noun
a change of place, position, or state.
Plain English, Teleportation is Movement that Moves you.
Which section of the rules did this come from?
The entire context of the rules themselves, which is what one must use to play the game, aka common sense.
I'm glad we could clear this up then. You're operating from arbitrary google searches that didn't come from the rules text whatsoever. And the question about the RAW text above remains irreconcilable with your browser's non-RAW definitions.
Back in the topic of D&D 5e rules, teleportation is not movement.
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition."
"To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Still curious though.For those who insist teleportation is somehow movement. And, when it says you are transported somewhere, or appear somewhere, etc, and yet you think that is some measurable distance of movement. For those who take that stance here:
If a wizard plane shifts from the plane of fire to the material plane. How far have they moved? If your rules are consistent, and you can measure how far they've moved... you should be able to provide that measurement in exact ft. Heck, even just a rough estimate of number of miles. Should be easy right?
You're saying "appearing" somewhere is a measurable type of movement right? That's the whole argument you're making. So measure this.
How far did they move?
Are you curious though? Or are you looking for a gotcha by asking a nonsense question.
If the question were "a person went from inside Building A to inside Building B how far have they moved?" the answer is "roughly (and at least) the distance between the two buildings". You asked "if a person went from Plane A to Plane B how far have they moved?" so the answer is the same - roughly (and at least) the distance between the two planes. If you want to ask that question and get our genuine answer, then you need to give the full context. If you tell me how many feet are between the Plane of Fire and the Material Plane, then I will tell you the minimum distance the player must have moved.
I will go ahead and insert a guess that the planes are 6 trillion feet apart. Then, for the purposes of rules triggering off moving, it can be said that the wizard has moved 6 trillion feet away from their point of origin. It can be said that wizard has moved 6 trillion feet to their arrival point. The wizard has moved out of their departure space. The wizard has moved into their arrival space.
And I have already agreed that for those two (so far) rules which seem to trigger off movement relative to nothing at all - Booming Blade and Feline Agility it could be said that the Wizard moved 0ft but still moved (if one desired an interpretation of the rules to agree with the confirmed RAI from Sage Advice).
Again - no one here has said "appearing is measurable movement" - no more than "arriving" is measurable movement. Misinterpretation of our argument is not an impressive skill. However, disappearing from one place and appearing in the next instant in a different place *is* moving from one place to the other. It is moving out of a space and moving into a space. It is moving relative to the world at large.
You've ignored or dismissed the now four and a half places in the book where teleportation is mentioned as a way of moving: moving while prone, Grasping Arrow, Hallow, Misty Wanderer, and the specific mentioning of teleportation in the rules for OAs that only trigger off moving - yet you rely on the assertion which is written nowhere that 'teleportation isn't moving'. You've also ignored the countless times the books use the words "move", "moving" or "movement" in contexts that have no relation to the Movement rules in chapters 8 and 9, in order to continue to assert that you are in possession of the One True RAW definition of those words. I don't know what more we can do in this debate while those things remain true.
You've ignored or dismissed the now four and a half places in the book where teleportation is mentioned as a way of moving: moving while prone, ...
Look up one comment above yours? Or the several above that? I'll just put it here for your convenience.
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition."
"To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation."
Teleportation can be done while prone, but your only Movement option while prone is crawling. Therefore, definitively, teleportation is not Movement.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
1. an act of changing physical location or position or of having this changed.
definition of Teleportation:
in fiction : instantaneous travel between two locations without crossing the intervening space.
definition of Move:
verb
go in a specified direction or manner; change position
noun
a change of place, position, or state.
Plain English, Teleportation is Movement that Moves you.
Which section of the rules did this come from?
The entire context of the rules themselves, which is what one must use to play the game, aka common sense.
I'm glad we could clear this up then. You're operating from arbitrary google searches that didn't come from the rules text whatsoever. And the question about the RAW text above remains irreconcilable with your browser's non-RAW definitions.
Back in the topic of D&D 5e rules, teleportation is not movement.
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition."
"To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation."
Yet those very words are part of the text of the RAW, and defined throughout the entire context of the rules as a whole. Using English definitions to fast-track the search process is like teleporting, you get there faster.
As to the difference between the condition of being prone, which one does have to use their movement speed to end the condition( no argument there), and Moving while prone which can be done by ether crawling and using a modified movement speed OR use the magical movement of teleportation to "Move" to a new location are two different situations.
And the question: "If RAW remains objective and unchanged, then why develop other rules and mechanics that contradict each other?" has yet to be answered, and was deflected.
You've ignored or dismissed the now four and a half places in the book where teleportation is mentioned as a way of moving: moving while prone, ...
Look up one comment above yours? Or the several above that? I'll just put it here for your convenience.
A prone creature's only movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition."
"To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation."
Teleportation can be done while prone, but your only Movement option while prone is crawling. Therefore, definitively, teleportation is not Movement.
The second bullet is very clear that you can move by teleporting though. That statement clearly describes both “crawling” and “using magic such as teleportation” as ways to move.
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The underlying point is that whether or not teleportation is considered movement, teleportation is implied to be a (non-obscure) specific rule that supercedes the general.
In the event of ambiguity, a feature, like Booming Blade, should be expected to address it explicitly. If it doesn't then teleportation continues to be exceptional.
If that's how you read what I said here, that explains things.
Teleporting can be done entirely motionless. You can even teleport completely inanimate objects. They don't have movement of any kind. They cannot even move at all. You could potentially move them, but they can't move themselves.
Are you guys just mixing up "They can move" with "They can be moved"? That'd probably explain a lot too.
Right, if the movement rules don't explain how it works, then it isn't one of the types of movement provided in the rules.
Is it? Are they? You are certainly claiming that is true. But, there is zero evidence of it actually being true provided for from the text. So these are unsupported claims. I'm a prehistoric semi-aquatic reptile looking for about tree fiddy. <--- Also an unsupported claim.
If your whole argument is you're not discussing the rules in the terms the book uses and instead wanna just casually refer to things by other words because you like doing so, then, go for it? You can create whatever cipher you enjoy using. But expect it to be read by people without your magic decoder ring as what you're saying is incorrect.
The books do not address Teleportation as a type of movement. Claiming they do is strictly false. Can you call them that anyway? Sure, free country right? You're totally allowed to be wrong.
Discussing the rules directly and discussing how to fluidly run a D&D table are two different though sometimes related conversations. Here, we've been discussing the rules themselves.
Again, here in the Rules and Mechanics forum, we discuss the rules directly. If you want to have a conversation on how to better run your games we could hop over to the DM Only forum? Maybe the General forum if you're just a player with general questions about the game that aren't Rules specific? Or maybe even the Homebrew and House Rules forum if RAW really is something you disagree with this much.
Naw. I homebrew a TON of stuff. That isn't a claim, I fully embrace homebrew. The difference is I just do it consciously and intentionally and fully recognize when I do and how it'll affect my games.
As to why I respond when someone posts something demonstrably false? This isn't the place for that. And unsupported or incorrect claims here could cause people to have a poor understanding of the rules. If someone posts a ton of incorrect information should you just ignore it? Some people do. That's fine. I don't.
And, I'm not correcting people who "disagree with me". You're welcome to disagree with me. I'm correcting people who say something directly incorrect and unsupported by the rulebooks.
Claiming Teleportation is movement... is directly incorrect and unsupported by the rulebooks.
This isn't one of those questions. The rules cover this plenty well enough. You keep having difficulties with it because you insist that something is happening that the books never say happens.
Teleportation is really very simple.
Insisting all day every day that something MUST happen in-between there flies directly in the face of what the rules actually say.
The rules do not call that movement. The rules do not call that moving. Can you call it those things? Sure, you can call that whatever you want. But what you call it doesn't then interact with rules specifically interacting with movement or moving. For the purposes of the rules, and rule interactions, teleportation isn't movement.
You know this too. None of you arguing that "Teleportation" actually treat it like movement. You can still teleport while grappled. You teleport normal listed distances even across difficult terrain. Having your movement slowed or reduced to 0 doesn't stop you from teleporting etc etc. No one. Not one of you, actually treats Teleportation like a form of movement.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Interesting tidbit.
One of the supporting evidences that Teleporting is moving is a line inferring as much from the options available to a prone creature. Right?
Some argue that supports that teleporting is clearly working differently from moving, others argue that inferrence is valid here and therefore it is moving.
Did anyone consult what the Prone Condition itself has to say?
A Prone creature's ONLY movement option is to crawl. But... but... but it can teleport? Guess teleporting isn't movement huh?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
And you sir are wrong, as I have been arguing "teleportation" is a special type of movement according the the rules and mechanics of spellcasting, since "teleporting" is a magical effect.
Chapter 9: combat -
one is a condition, one is a Rule As Written.
Yeah totally.
I'm not sure this is true, the distance moved bit. The "action of" is spot on though. But on the distance, he says: From one spot to another. You don't move through the intervening space. That seems like simple math.
He is essentially saying when you teleport you get moved from A to B (how far teleported) minus the distance between A and B (that you do not move through).
So, if distance from A to B is 20ft... that means he is moved 20ft, minus 20ft. Or, simply put... 0 ft.
True
Yeah
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yes, a Rule As Written that tells you how teleportation doesn't suffer the same restriction in this instance that movement does.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yet if you use magic such as teleportation while prone, the rule states you have "moved", and the distance "moved" is defined by the teleportation spell.
So you're agreeing it isn't movement?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I am clearly stating that it is Movement, as defined by the bolded words " To move while prone"
the definition of Movement :
noun.
See the bolded red phrase. Your only Movement option, while prone, is to crawl. Period. Black and White.
Look. Both of these things are true, and direct RAW quotes:
Reconcile. Repeating question: Is teleportation movement?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Which section of the rules did this come from?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The entire context of the rules themselves, which is what one must use to play the game, aka common sense.
I'm glad we could clear this up then. You're operating from arbitrary google searches that didn't come from the rules text whatsoever. And the question about the RAW text above remains irreconcilable with your browser's non-RAW definitions.
Back in the topic of D&D 5e rules, teleportation is not movement.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Are you curious though? Or are you looking for a gotcha by asking a nonsense question.
If the question were "a person went from inside Building A to inside Building B how far have they moved?" the answer is "roughly (and at least) the distance between the two buildings". You asked "if a person went from Plane A to Plane B how far have they moved?" so the answer is the same - roughly (and at least) the distance between the two planes. If you want to ask that question and get our genuine answer, then you need to give the full context. If you tell me how many feet are between the Plane of Fire and the Material Plane, then I will tell you the minimum distance the player must have moved.
I will go ahead and insert a guess that the planes are 6 trillion feet apart. Then, for the purposes of rules triggering off moving, it can be said that the wizard has moved 6 trillion feet away from their point of origin. It can be said that wizard has moved 6 trillion feet to their arrival point. The wizard has moved out of their departure space. The wizard has moved into their arrival space.
And I have already agreed that for those two (so far) rules which seem to trigger off movement relative to nothing at all - Booming Blade and Feline Agility it could be said that the Wizard moved 0ft but still moved (if one desired an interpretation of the rules to agree with the confirmed RAI from Sage Advice).
Again - no one here has said "appearing is measurable movement" - no more than "arriving" is measurable movement. Misinterpretation of our argument is not an impressive skill. However, disappearing from one place and appearing in the next instant in a different place *is* moving from one place to the other. It is moving out of a space and moving into a space. It is moving relative to the world at large.
You've ignored or dismissed the now four and a half places in the book where teleportation is mentioned as a way of moving: moving while prone, Grasping Arrow, Hallow, Misty Wanderer, and the specific mentioning of teleportation in the rules for OAs that only trigger off moving - yet you rely on the assertion which is written nowhere that 'teleportation isn't moving'. You've also ignored the countless times the books use the words "move", "moving" or "movement" in contexts that have no relation to the Movement rules in chapters 8 and 9, in order to continue to assert that you are in possession of the One True RAW definition of those words. I don't know what more we can do in this debate while those things remain true.
Look up one comment above yours? Or the several above that? I'll just put it here for your convenience.
Teleportation can be done while prone, but your only Movement option while prone is crawling. Therefore, definitively, teleportation is not Movement.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
So are you conceding here that teleportation is "moving" but not "movement"?
Yet those very words are part of the text of the RAW, and defined throughout the entire context of the rules as a whole. Using English definitions to fast-track the search process is like teleporting, you get there faster.
As to the difference between the condition of being prone, which one does have to use their movement speed to end the condition( no argument there), and Moving while prone which can be done by ether crawling and using a modified movement speed OR use the magical movement of teleportation to "Move" to a new location are two different situations.
And the question: "If RAW remains objective and unchanged, then why develop other rules and mechanics that contradict each other?" has yet to be answered, and was deflected.
The second bullet is very clear that you can move by teleporting though. That statement clearly describes both “crawling” and “using magic such as teleportation” as ways to move.