The familiar doesn't automatically notice everything, hidden enemies are still hidden, traps can't be found and so on.
Staying within 100' while the familiar is "mapping" can work well sometimes but like you mentioned a stronghold, 100' is well within sight from any guard on the wall or similar. Now the wizard better be as good as the rogue at stealth because otherwise they know you're coming.
Familiars do die very fast and cost money on the other hand some people's suggestions don't work if you're going with the druid optional feature (which you obviously don't have to go with) to use wild shapes for familiars.
You would at best get a rough idea of what the place looks like and perhaps what enemies are there. Remember there are other wizard spells that do the same (scouting).
The familiar can't really effectively deliver touch spells. The real way to do it, which not everyone plays with, is to use it as a prepared action and cast the spell during your turn, keeping concentration on it until it's the familiars turn then use both your and the familiars reaction to deliver the spell when within touching range. Note how you have to keep concentration on the spell even if it's not a concentration spell, so you would have to drop any previous concentration spell.
The only reason the familiar is too powerful is if you, the DM, make it too powerful.
It would be easier to argue that the Wizard shouldn't be able to ever take an hour's break to cast a spell, if taking an hour's break wasn't a core mechanic that every class relies upon to function, and that there are several spells and features present in the game to facilitate.
The only way for a tier 1 party to safely take a short rest in a dangerous dungeon is Rope Trick. In order to regain their familiar in there the wizard would have to haul a brazier up the rope and forego casting the spell as a ritual, which would extend Find Familiar's casting time well past the 1 hour mark. Also note that 2nd level slot would've paid for a casting of Invisibility for the Rogue.
By the time groups hit level 5 they're not normally exploring dungeons so simple that a familiar can trivialize them, and the wizard can literally make people fly.
The familiar can't really effectively deliver touch spells. The real way to do it, which not everyone plays with, is to use it as a prepared action and cast the spell during your turn, keeping concentration on it until it's the familiars turn then use both your and the familiars reaction to deliver the spell when within touching range. Note how you have to keep concentration on the spell even if it's not a concentration spell, so you would have to drop any previous concentration spell.
No, that's incorrect. Familiars use their reaction to "pass along" touch spells as you cast them on your own turn. There's no 'holding the spell until the familiar's turn'
Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an attack roll, you use your attack modifier for the roll.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It would be easier to argue that the Wizard shouldn't be able to ever take an hour's break to cast a spell, if taking an hour's break wasn't a core mechanic that every class relies upon to function, and that there are several spells and features present in the game to facilitate.
The only way for a tier 1 party to safely take a short rest in a dangerous dungeon is Rope Trick. In order to regain their familiar in there the wizard would have to haul a brazier up the rope and forego casting the spell as a ritual, which would extend Find Familiar's casting time well past the 1 hour mark. Also note that 2nd level slot would've paid for a casting of Invisibility for the Rogue.
By the time groups hit level 5 they're not normally exploring dungeons so simple that a familiar can trivialize them, and the wizard can literally make people fly.
And do you prevent your parties from taking short rests in dungeons if they don't have Rope Trick? Or do your players come up with ways to do it anyway? Or do you take pity on them because they'll never survive if they don't rest?
I've seen more of D&D's official dungeons than most, I expect. The number of them you could reasonably complete without taking a short rest, I can easily count on one hand -- probably on one finger. The only one I can think of is the Cassalanter manor in Dragon Heist, and I don't think we actually cleared that one. I think we left before exploring the basement. Moreover, the framing of these encounters is such that you can't afford to leave and come back (with the notable exception of the lairs in SKT). It's as if the designers intend for parties to skip long rests during dungeons, but take short rests. Curious.
Yeah familars are good and its one of the best 1st spells but IMO its manageable.
Strictly enforce the 100ft limit and 99% of the problems you mentioned go away. There is no way a bat will remember anything of a cave to report back in an intelligible way. It will not be able to give enemy numbers or locations. Also goblins move? They could move about the cave while they are scouting making the information much less valuable.
If you are keeping everything static after the scouting then yeah I guess they get the drop on them but you do not have to.
Also with the idea that people know the spell exists in the world its completely fair that a camp would have a few trained hawks to take down anything flying near it.
It would be easier to argue that the Wizard shouldn't be able to ever take an hour's break to cast a spell, if taking an hour's break wasn't a core mechanic that every class relies upon to function, and that there are several spells and features present in the game to facilitate.
The only way for a tier 1 party to safely take a short rest in a dangerous dungeon is Rope Trick. In order to regain their familiar in there the wizard would have to haul a brazier up the rope and forego casting the spell as a ritual, which would extend Find Familiar's casting time well past the 1 hour mark. Also note that 2nd level slot would've paid for a casting of Invisibility for the Rogue.
By the time groups hit level 5 they're not normally exploring dungeons so simple that a familiar can trivialize them, and the wizard can literally make people fly.
It's been brought up a few times in this thread the inconvenience of needing a brass brazier to re-summon the Familiar... but is that really such a struggle? The spell doesn't specify the size of the brazier needed, and it's not mentioned as an item with a cost associated... I did a very brief search to see if there was any specifics about Braziers in the game, and the first thing I found was the "Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals", which is only 5 pounds and seems intended to be something that can be carried into battle, so it's reasonable to me that a player could get a brass brazier that's even smaller than that, since all it's needed for is burning 10gp worth of incense.
That said, I'm also of the mindset that Find Familiar is just a little too good for its level and cost. I sort of get why WotC made it that way... a Familiar has the potential to be an iconic, character-defining element of a PC, possibly deeply integrated into their backstory or personality. They want it to be something that you can easily justify starting the game with and having by your side from day one. And, y'know... make it be useful enough to justify dedicating Spellbook space to it. But I think they may have overcompensated just a bit too much and made it really overpowered compared to other level 1, and even many level 2 and some level 3 spells. I totally understand if some DM's have special rules about Famililars in their games... personally I think just upping the cost from 10gp to 100gp would be more than enough to balance out the familiar without making any other changes, but maybe somebody with a better eye for math could find a more appropriate cost change... I just know that, in my own personal games, if a player is willing to pump 100gp into their pet owl, they've probably earned some nifty perks to go with it.
Interesting. I disagree with most of the OPs assessment and have never had any real problem with familiars in either the games I run or play in.
1) From a fantasy fiction standpoint you can find familiar companions or disposable ones. 5e generally decided on the disposable ones with rules in the Monster Manual for actual creature familiars (they can share their magic resistance for example while the ones summoned with find familiar - even the warlock ones - can't). If a DM strongly prefers one kind over another then they can choose to run their game that way but narratively I don't have any issues with the find familiar spell as written. It is just a different and completely acceptable take on the source of familiars.
2) If a DM allows the familiar to completely map out an explorable area without any risks, reporting back exactly what is seen and handing the players a map as a result - that is on the DM. Most small creature familiars that might exist in a dungeon have natural enemies in the dungeon. If a wizard chooses a spider as a familiar then it has a movement rate of 20' and 1 HP. There are many creatures in a dungeon which adventurers usually ignore that would eat such a creature. In addition, familiars usually go places and do things that would be unnatural for a typical member of that species. There is a chance that the familiar would be noticed and actions taken. Keep in mind that all of the intelligent creatures that a party might encounter KNOW that magic exists, they KNOW that familiars exist - do you think they just stand around waiting for a wizard to send in an animal scout and they pay no attention to it? WE would pay no attention since how could an animal be a threat in our world ... in their world, all of the creatures KNOW about magic and threats like familiars and wild shape and would be watching. If the creatures saw a bat or an owl flying through their cave acting oddly - then the odds are good that the creatures will suspect that there is a party with a wizard somewhere nearby.
Keep in mind that the DM creates a world that should fit logically together and that includes the creatures in it (especially intelligent ones) reacting in appropriate ways based on the knowledge they have of the world.
Another good example is yo-yo healing often employed by adventurers. Intelligent opponents may well be aware that a creature that they "kill" may not stay down if there is a spellcaster or healing potions in the party. In such cases, there is a good chance that they will make sure a creature is dead before moving on to another opponent. DMs should ideally make the players aware of this risk so that they can take appropriate actions.
------
The bottom line is that the DM is not picking on the player with a familiar by including realistic interactions with the world around them including reasonable risks to the familiar itself. It is the DM allowing for unrealistic and unrestricted use of the familiar that is causing issues in their game. It isn't the spell :) ... it is the DM :) (at least that is one take on it).
The warlock intelligent, invisible familiars are a different level of challenge though to run as a DM. The party does not want to sit around and watch the warlock roleplay an intelligent familiar making decisions and scouting for the party and the invisibility and intelligence make these types of familiar more challenging for a DM from a game play perspective. In addition, these familiars have the same opportunity cost in terms of casting though they do require a significant investment on the character side.
It's been brought up a few times in this thread the inconvenience of needing a brass brazier to re-summon the Familiar... but is that really such a struggle? The spell doesn't specify the size of the brazier needed, and it's not mentioned as an item with a cost associated... I did a very brief search to see if there was any specifics about Braziers in the game, and the first thing I found was the "Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals", which is only 5 pounds and seems intended to be something that can be carried into battle, so it's reasonable to me that a player could get a brass brazier that's even smaller than that, since all it's needed for is burning 10gp worth of incense.
Language is fluid, and you're right about the spell not going into any specifics, but when I hear "brazier" I don't think of something small enough to hold in one hand, and a quick glance at Google Image Search shows lots of examples that would barely fit in a backpack. A player trying to rules lawyer their way into a brazier that's extremely convenient for them to carry around (or burning their incense in a mess kit or steel mug) would really rub me the wrong way. And considering all the ways the spell's mechanics undermine its narrative, I'd rather not undermine it further by hand-waving the casting to a loss of 10 gold. I think the spell is much more interesting if you don't try to cheat your way out of that.
I make sure that my players know the limitations of the familiar if they take the spell:
The familiar follows your commands, but it isn't "controlled" by you. Even when you are looking through its eyes you can't control it directly, only command it (and then only if in range)
Communication with the familiar is limited to both its intelligence and its normal animal behavior if you aren't looking through it's eyes. That means for a normal familiar
It might be able to convey you number and size of enemies, if they are predator (or prey), and basic descriptors, but not rank, weapons, armor, or creature type
It might be able to convey to you relative size of rooms, directions, and major features (big rock, waterfall), but not specific maps, distances, etc
You will get this information in images and feelings, not necessarily in words
(special familiars, like the warlock pact of the chain familiars, would be able to fully communicate those items provided they can be understood, and might be able to suss out more information)
The concept of familiars will be known to some monsters, especially if they are a spell caster, so they will be looking for "odd" creatures in certain situations. So a bat or spider might not draw attention deep in a cave, but an owl or hawk might.
familiars will have to make saves in AoEs and can be targeted, so it is up to the PC to actively "poof" them out if they want to ensure safety.
Without nerfing its abilities, or taking control of the pet away from the player (not fun), I think that actually applying its RAW traits addresses most of the common complaints.
You can only telepathically communicate within 100 feet. It doesn't otherwise speak Common or understand you or anyone else.
Even if you can ride its senses beyond that range, you have no control over its body other than that 100 foot telepathy. Out there, it's gonna respond to situations and think like a (well-intentioned and well-trained) Rat, not a spellcaster that views it as a disposable tool.
Its intelligence is still animal level, so even if it can understand you and is a novel creature type, it can't do anything you wouldn't expect a well-trained service animal to do.
They don't have hands, have miniscule strength scores, and further suffer the carrying capacity malus of tiny creatures (two steps down from medium).
They take their own turns, not acting on your turn, causing delivering spells to be a pretty dicey proposition that often involves the caster readying their own action to cast the spell on the familiar's turn (which will burn the spell slot even if the familiar is frustrated before it can deliver the spell).
They have horrible AC, and trivial HP, so if used in combat or around enemies are likely only around for a single turn.
They're unable to defend themselves while scouting, so even running into a wild Rat or Bat that wouldn't be more than a set piece for the party, is likely to seriously endanger the familiar.
If you remind your players of the above, there's no shortage of ways for the spellcaster to have fun and meaningful exploration and roleplay with the familiar. But it isn't a drone, or a tiny version of the caster, it's a pet animal.
And do you prevent your parties from taking short rests in dungeons if they don't have Rope Trick? Or do your players come up with ways to do it anyway? Or do you take pity on them because they'll never survive if they don't rest?
I do whatever the situation calls for. I don't think it makes sense to squat in a random room of an enemy encampment like Cragmaw Castle burning incense and chanting spells for one whole hour without being discovered. There's been other times where it was practicals for players to take even a long rest (e.g. Death House and Amber Temple in Curse of Strahd.) Sometimes I let it happen, sometimes I tell them there's no chance of success, and sometimes I leave it up to chance.
My point isn't that summoning a new familiar in the field is impossible, but that it's nowhere near as simple as just declaring you lose 10 gold and it's now 4 pm instead of 3 pm. If DMs allow players to treat rests as nothing but a button to push when they need a boost, that's obviously going to create problems.
Short answer, no. People underestimate how short 100 feet actually is. The wizard can probably see most of the things the familiar is looking at from that distance. Add to that the material cost and the spell slot required (or time if ritually cast). So just like how wild shaping into an animal to bypass a guard isn't OP or "broken", neither is Find Familiar.
And it's only disruptive if the GM allows it to be which in that case it's a problem of the DM and not of the spell.
I am with the OP in terms of the problems that familiars can cause. Mostly the issue is that the familiar expands the party's capabilities dramatically but does so in a safe, resource-cost-free way. The DM shouldn't have to continually bring in unlikely solutions to deal with a pigeon or a rat, and as the OP states, the players become very aware that you're doing it because you just don't want it.
Here are some of the issues I've encountered:
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Setting off traps, or "I wonder what this does?": See Frumpkin in Critical Role. He's used like a disposable party member to test out magical traps or runic circles or whatever. A "live test" animal, essentially.
Innocuous espionage: Want to overhear what's going on over there? Send in the mouse. This can be fun once or twice! And then again, and again, and again?
And yes, the problem with killing the familiar off is that unless you're on a clock, it's practically free to summon it.
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
You don't need to have "total cover from the sky" to set up an ambush. And how would the familiar even know if that thing moving over there is an ambush, a family of deer or just some kids playing hide and seek?
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
The familiar can't see everything. If it flies it will miss things on the ground. If it's on the ground it will miss things blocked by line of sight, et cetera.
Setting off traps, or "I wonder what this does?": See Frumpkin in Critical Role. He's used like a disposable party member to test out magical traps or runic circles or whatever. A "live test" animal, essentially.
Frumpkin's actually used for that quite rarely since a) Caleb cares about him and b) at least at the start they have limited resources to summon him. But sure, if you want to waste an hour and 10GP worth of incense for every trap in a dungeon then I guess you could do that. It's going to be rather boring for the rest of the party and any sane DM would use that time for setting up more ambushes or letting the enemies prepare in general. You wanted to sneak into the mansion to assassinate that dude? Sorry, but he woke after you set off that first trap and since you took an hour to summon a new familiar he just bolted. He know has about an hour's head start...
Innocuous espionage: Want to overhear what's going on over there? Send in the mouse. This can be fun once or twice! And then again, and again, and again?
Oh no, the barmaid saw the mouse and threw it in the trash. Or the people being listened to wonder why the hell there is someone a hundred feet away just staring out in the air. Again, 100 feet is a lot less than most people think.
And yes, the problem with killing the familiar off is that unless you're on a clock, it's practically free to summon it.
A lot can happen in an hour and any villain worth their salt will make use of that time.
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
I am with the OP in terms of the problems that familiars can cause. Mostly the issue is that the familiar expands the party's capabilities dramatically but does so in a safe, resource-cost-free way. The DM shouldn't have to continually bring in unlikely solutions to deal with a pigeon or a rat, and as the OP states, the players become very aware that you're doing it because you just don't want it.
Here are some of the issues I've encountered:
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Setting off traps, or "I wonder what this does?": See Frumpkin in Critical Role. He's used like a disposable party member to test out magical traps or runic circles or whatever. A "live test" animal, essentially.
Innocuous espionage: Want to overhear what's going on over there? Send in the mouse. This can be fun once or twice! And then again, and again, and again?
And yes, the problem with killing the familiar off is that unless you're on a clock, it's practically free to summon it.
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
1. Traveling- For wide open spaces with no structures sure but this won't be the majority of a campaign and if it is then you can have fog, heavy rain, trees, etc.... that impede sight lines so its good but not breaking.
2. Scouting- Same as above and you can only effectively scout 100ft ahead. In the right environments that is good but in others (and depending on the familiar form) will not be condusive to stealth unless you spend the money and time to change forms.
3. Traps- Yes this is a common use for familiars....and it didn't break CR so it won't break your campaign either!
4. Espionage- See above...100ft only and someone will likely notice the mouse as their stealth is terrible.
5. Teleport- one real quick way to get a familiar killed is teleporting them into a room where there is enemies and they suddenly see a creature appear from nowhere.
Overall I see nothing here that is game breaking....yes your familiar will likely die a lot if you put it in harms way a lot. Thats just how the game works.
Where I play we haven't had any issues from familiars but then we usually don't try to power-game the hell out of anything so...
That said I agree with the people above, a lot of the issues people have seems to stem from allowing quite a lot of leeway to the PC with the familiar/the party.
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Got to remember that the party doesn't see anything, the familiar does and he's not telling. And when the PC looks through his familiar he is still limited to the familiars crappy senses and what the familiar decides to look at. And having one of the PCs be, in effect, continually incapacitated is going to put a quite severe limit on the party's mode of transport.
Setting off traps, or "I wonder what this does?": See Frumpkin in Critical Role. He's used like a disposable party member to test out magical traps or runic circles or whatever. A "live test" animal, essentially.
And I can get why some think that that's not how one would treat ones familiar (while others would be completely OK with the practice). However setting off a trap should rarely be cost free in itself. It might alert guards, it might destroy whatever was trapped, it might close of/block doors/passageways or any number of other things. If the DM only uses traps to add a bit of damage to the adventuring day then I don't see the big issue with the party negating that by using a familiar tbh.
Innocuous espionage: Want to overhear what's going on over there? Send in the mouse. This can be fun once or twice! And then again, and again, and again?
And yes, the problem with killing the familiar off is that unless you're on a clock, it's practically free to summon it.
Shouldn't you pretty much always be on the clock, to some degree, though?
Also for anything past just audio surveillance the mouse (or whatever form is preferred) will have crappy senses and very limited manual dexterity so there will be a lot of situations where a familiar just cannot get the job done, even if all you want is some sort of recon.
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
Yea that seems a bit off compared to most other spells but I'm not sure it have much of an in-game impact. Also just because you can make it appear in a spot that you can't see it doesn't mean you know where to put it. It might end up in the wrong space/room or worse, inside walls/object (which likely should kill it instantly).
Where I play we haven't had any issues from familiars but then we usually don't try to power-game the hell out of anything so...
That said I agree with the people above, a lot of the issues people have seems to stem from allowing quite a lot of leeway to the PC with the familiar/the party.
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Got to remember that the party doesn't see anything, the familiar does and he's not telling. And when the PC looks through his familiar he is still limited to the familiars crappy senses and what the familiar decides to look at. And having one of the PCs be, in effect, continually incapacitated is going to put a quite severe limit on the party's mode of transport.
Setting off traps, or "I wonder what this does?": See Frumpkin in Critical Role. He's used like a disposable party member to test out magical traps or runic circles or whatever. A "live test" animal, essentially.
And I can get why some think that that's not how one would treat ones familiar (while others would be completely OK with the practice). However setting off a trap should rarely be cost free in itself. It might alert guards, it might destroy whatever was trapped, it might close of/block doors/passageways or any number of other things. If the DM only uses traps to add a bit of damage to the adventuring day then I don't see the big issue with the party negating that by using a familiar tbh.
Innocuous espionage: Want to overhear what's going on over there? Send in the mouse. This can be fun once or twice! And then again, and again, and again?
And yes, the problem with killing the familiar off is that unless you're on a clock, it's practically free to summon it.
Shouldn't you pretty much always be on the clock, to some degree, though?
Also for anything past just audio surveillance the mouse (or whatever form is preferred) will have crappy senses and very limited manual dexterity so there will be a lot of situations where a familiar just cannot get the job done, even if all you want is some sort of recon.
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
Yea that seems a bit off compared to most other spells but I'm not sure it have much of an in-game impact. Also just because you can make it appear in a spot that you can't see it doesn't mean you know where to put it. It might end up in the wrong space/room or worse, inside walls/object (which likely should kill it instantly).
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
Yea that seems a bit off compared to most other spells but I'm not sure it have much of an in-game impact. Also just because you can make it appear in a spot that you can't see it doesn't mean you know where to put it. It might end up in the wrong space/room or worse, inside walls/object (which likely should kill it instantly).
Yeah if you put it in a wall it's for sure dead
You can't kill it this way. The ability specifies that you can only cause it to reappear in unoccupied spaces. Attempting to do otherwise just fails.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
Yea that seems a bit off compared to most other spells but I'm not sure it have much of an in-game impact. Also just because you can make it appear in a spot that you can't see it doesn't mean you know where to put it. It might end up in the wrong space/room or worse, inside walls/object (which likely should kill it instantly).
Yeah if you put it in a wall it's for sure dead
You can't kill it this way. The ability specifies that you can only cause it to reappear in unoccupied spaces. Attempting to do otherwise just fails.
I'd still say you waste the attempt trying, which can be a bad thing in a time crunch situation, but I agree you can't kill a familiar this way.
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
Yea that seems a bit off compared to most other spells but I'm not sure it have much of an in-game impact. Also just because you can make it appear in a spot that you can't see it doesn't mean you know where to put it. It might end up in the wrong space/room or worse, inside walls/object (which likely should kill it instantly).
Yeah if you put it in a wall it's for sure dead
You can't kill it this way. The ability specifies that you can only cause it to reappear in unoccupied spaces. Attempting to do otherwise just fails.
I'd still say you waste the attempt trying, which can be a bad thing in a time crunch situation, but I agree you can't kill a familiar this way.
OK but the point stands that not being able to see into the room doesn't really provide a huge benefit....
Overall the spell is fine as is if you just actually use common sense and RAW limitations.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The familiar doesn't automatically notice everything, hidden enemies are still hidden, traps can't be found and so on.
Staying within 100' while the familiar is "mapping" can work well sometimes but like you mentioned a stronghold, 100' is well within sight from any guard on the wall or similar. Now the wizard better be as good as the rogue at stealth because otherwise they know you're coming.
Familiars do die very fast and cost money on the other hand some people's suggestions don't work if you're going with the druid optional feature (which you obviously don't have to go with) to use wild shapes for familiars.
You would at best get a rough idea of what the place looks like and perhaps what enemies are there. Remember there are other wizard spells that do the same (scouting).
The familiar can't really effectively deliver touch spells. The real way to do it, which not everyone plays with, is to use it as a prepared action and cast the spell during your turn, keeping concentration on it until it's the familiars turn then use both your and the familiars reaction to deliver the spell when within touching range. Note how you have to keep concentration on the spell even if it's not a concentration spell, so you would have to drop any previous concentration spell.
The only reason the familiar is too powerful is if you, the DM, make it too powerful.
The only way for a tier 1 party to safely take a short rest in a dangerous dungeon is Rope Trick. In order to regain their familiar in there the wizard would have to haul a brazier up the rope and forego casting the spell as a ritual, which would extend Find Familiar's casting time well past the 1 hour mark. Also note that 2nd level slot would've paid for a casting of Invisibility for the Rogue.
By the time groups hit level 5 they're not normally exploring dungeons so simple that a familiar can trivialize them, and the wizard can literally make people fly.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
No, that's incorrect. Familiars use their reaction to "pass along" touch spells as you cast them on your own turn. There's no 'holding the spell until the familiar's turn'
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
And do you prevent your parties from taking short rests in dungeons if they don't have Rope Trick? Or do your players come up with ways to do it anyway? Or do you take pity on them because they'll never survive if they don't rest?
I've seen more of D&D's official dungeons than most, I expect. The number of them you could reasonably complete without taking a short rest, I can easily count on one hand -- probably on one finger. The only one I can think of is the Cassalanter manor in Dragon Heist, and I don't think we actually cleared that one. I think we left before exploring the basement. Moreover, the framing of these encounters is such that you can't afford to leave and come back (with the notable exception of the lairs in SKT). It's as if the designers intend for parties to skip long rests during dungeons, but take short rests. Curious.
Yeah familars are good and its one of the best 1st spells but IMO its manageable.
Strictly enforce the 100ft limit and 99% of the problems you mentioned go away. There is no way a bat will remember anything of a cave to report back in an intelligible way. It will not be able to give enemy numbers or locations. Also goblins move? They could move about the cave while they are scouting making the information much less valuable.
If you are keeping everything static after the scouting then yeah I guess they get the drop on them but you do not have to.
Also with the idea that people know the spell exists in the world its completely fair that a camp would have a few trained hawks to take down anything flying near it.
It's been brought up a few times in this thread the inconvenience of needing a brass brazier to re-summon the Familiar... but is that really such a struggle? The spell doesn't specify the size of the brazier needed, and it's not mentioned as an item with a cost associated... I did a very brief search to see if there was any specifics about Braziers in the game, and the first thing I found was the "Brazier of Commanding Fire Elementals", which is only 5 pounds and seems intended to be something that can be carried into battle, so it's reasonable to me that a player could get a brass brazier that's even smaller than that, since all it's needed for is burning 10gp worth of incense.
That said, I'm also of the mindset that Find Familiar is just a little too good for its level and cost. I sort of get why WotC made it that way... a Familiar has the potential to be an iconic, character-defining element of a PC, possibly deeply integrated into their backstory or personality. They want it to be something that you can easily justify starting the game with and having by your side from day one. And, y'know... make it be useful enough to justify dedicating Spellbook space to it. But I think they may have overcompensated just a bit too much and made it really overpowered compared to other level 1, and even many level 2 and some level 3 spells. I totally understand if some DM's have special rules about Famililars in their games... personally I think just upping the cost from 10gp to 100gp would be more than enough to balance out the familiar without making any other changes, but maybe somebody with a better eye for math could find a more appropriate cost change... I just know that, in my own personal games, if a player is willing to pump 100gp into their pet owl, they've probably earned some nifty perks to go with it.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Interesting. I disagree with most of the OPs assessment and have never had any real problem with familiars in either the games I run or play in.
1) From a fantasy fiction standpoint you can find familiar companions or disposable ones. 5e generally decided on the disposable ones with rules in the Monster Manual for actual creature familiars (they can share their magic resistance for example while the ones summoned with find familiar - even the warlock ones - can't). If a DM strongly prefers one kind over another then they can choose to run their game that way but narratively I don't have any issues with the find familiar spell as written. It is just a different and completely acceptable take on the source of familiars.
2) If a DM allows the familiar to completely map out an explorable area without any risks, reporting back exactly what is seen and handing the players a map as a result - that is on the DM. Most small creature familiars that might exist in a dungeon have natural enemies in the dungeon. If a wizard chooses a spider as a familiar then it has a movement rate of 20' and 1 HP. There are many creatures in a dungeon which adventurers usually ignore that would eat such a creature. In addition, familiars usually go places and do things that would be unnatural for a typical member of that species. There is a chance that the familiar would be noticed and actions taken. Keep in mind that all of the intelligent creatures that a party might encounter KNOW that magic exists, they KNOW that familiars exist - do you think they just stand around waiting for a wizard to send in an animal scout and they pay no attention to it? WE would pay no attention since how could an animal be a threat in our world ... in their world, all of the creatures KNOW about magic and threats like familiars and wild shape and would be watching. If the creatures saw a bat or an owl flying through their cave acting oddly - then the odds are good that the creatures will suspect that there is a party with a wizard somewhere nearby.
Keep in mind that the DM creates a world that should fit logically together and that includes the creatures in it (especially intelligent ones) reacting in appropriate ways based on the knowledge they have of the world.
Another good example is yo-yo healing often employed by adventurers. Intelligent opponents may well be aware that a creature that they "kill" may not stay down if there is a spellcaster or healing potions in the party. In such cases, there is a good chance that they will make sure a creature is dead before moving on to another opponent. DMs should ideally make the players aware of this risk so that they can take appropriate actions.
------
The bottom line is that the DM is not picking on the player with a familiar by including realistic interactions with the world around them including reasonable risks to the familiar itself. It is the DM allowing for unrealistic and unrestricted use of the familiar that is causing issues in their game. It isn't the spell :) ... it is the DM :) (at least that is one take on it).
The warlock intelligent, invisible familiars are a different level of challenge though to run as a DM. The party does not want to sit around and watch the warlock roleplay an intelligent familiar making decisions and scouting for the party and the invisibility and intelligence make these types of familiar more challenging for a DM from a game play perspective. In addition, these familiars have the same opportunity cost in terms of casting though they do require a significant investment on the character side.
Language is fluid, and you're right about the spell not going into any specifics, but when I hear "brazier" I don't think of something small enough to hold in one hand, and a quick glance at Google Image Search shows lots of examples that would barely fit in a backpack. A player trying to rules lawyer their way into a brazier that's extremely convenient for them to carry around (or burning their incense in a mess kit or steel mug) would really rub me the wrong way. And considering all the ways the spell's mechanics undermine its narrative, I'd rather not undermine it further by hand-waving the casting to a loss of 10 gold. I think the spell is much more interesting if you don't try to cheat your way out of that.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I make sure that my players know the limitations of the familiar if they take the spell:
Without nerfing its abilities, or taking control of the pet away from the player (not fun), I think that actually applying its RAW traits addresses most of the common complaints.
If you remind your players of the above, there's no shortage of ways for the spellcaster to have fun and meaningful exploration and roleplay with the familiar. But it isn't a drone, or a tiny version of the caster, it's a pet animal.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Didn't mean to ignore this.
I do whatever the situation calls for. I don't think it makes sense to squat in a random room of an enemy encampment like Cragmaw Castle burning incense and chanting spells for one whole hour without being discovered. There's been other times where it was practicals for players to take even a long rest (e.g. Death House and Amber Temple in Curse of Strahd.) Sometimes I let it happen, sometimes I tell them there's no chance of success, and sometimes I leave it up to chance.
My point isn't that summoning a new familiar in the field is impossible, but that it's nowhere near as simple as just declaring you lose 10 gold and it's now 4 pm instead of 3 pm. If DMs allow players to treat rests as nothing but a button to push when they need a boost, that's obviously going to create problems.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Short answer, no. People underestimate how short 100 feet actually is. The wizard can probably see most of the things the familiar is looking at from that distance. Add to that the material cost and the spell slot required (or time if ritually cast). So just like how wild shaping into an animal to bypass a guard isn't OP or "broken", neither is Find Familiar.
And it's only disruptive if the GM allows it to be which in that case it's a problem of the DM and not of the spell.
I am with the OP in terms of the problems that familiars can cause. Mostly the issue is that the familiar expands the party's capabilities dramatically but does so in a safe, resource-cost-free way. The DM shouldn't have to continually bring in unlikely solutions to deal with a pigeon or a rat, and as the OP states, the players become very aware that you're doing it because you just don't want it.
Here are some of the issues I've encountered:
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Setting off traps, or "I wonder what this does?": See Frumpkin in Critical Role. He's used like a disposable party member to test out magical traps or runic circles or whatever. A "live test" animal, essentially.
Innocuous espionage: Want to overhear what's going on over there? Send in the mouse. This can be fun once or twice! And then again, and again, and again?
And yes, the problem with killing the familiar off is that unless you're on a clock, it's practically free to summon it.
Teleports through walls: As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
All of this are based on a lot of assumptions.
You don't need to have "total cover from the sky" to set up an ambush. And how would the familiar even know if that thing moving over there is an ambush, a family of deer or just some kids playing hide and seek?
The familiar can't see everything. If it flies it will miss things on the ground. If it's on the ground it will miss things blocked by line of sight, et cetera.
Frumpkin's actually used for that quite rarely since a) Caleb cares about him and b) at least at the start they have limited resources to summon him. But sure, if you want to waste an hour and 10GP worth of incense for every trap in a dungeon then I guess you could do that. It's going to be rather boring for the rest of the party and any sane DM would use that time for setting up more ambushes or letting the enemies prepare in general. You wanted to sneak into the mansion to assassinate that dude? Sorry, but he woke after you set off that first trap and since you took an hour to summon a new familiar he just bolted. He know has about an hour's head start...
Oh no, the barmaid saw the mouse and threw it in the trash. Or the people being listened to wonder why the hell there is someone a hundred feet away just staring out in the air. Again, 100 feet is a lot less than most people think.
A lot can happen in an hour and any villain worth their salt will make use of that time.
And then what?
1. Traveling- For wide open spaces with no structures sure but this won't be the majority of a campaign and if it is then you can have fog, heavy rain, trees, etc.... that impede sight lines so its good but not breaking.
2. Scouting- Same as above and you can only effectively scout 100ft ahead. In the right environments that is good but in others (and depending on the familiar form) will not be condusive to stealth unless you spend the money and time to change forms.
3. Traps- Yes this is a common use for familiars....and it didn't break CR so it won't break your campaign either!
4. Espionage- See above...100ft only and someone will likely notice the mouse as their stealth is terrible.
5. Teleport- one real quick way to get a familiar killed is teleporting them into a room where there is enemies and they suddenly see a creature appear from nowhere.
Overall I see nothing here that is game breaking....yes your familiar will likely die a lot if you put it in harms way a lot. Thats just how the game works.
Where I play we haven't had any issues from familiars but then we usually don't try to power-game the hell out of anything so...
That said I agree with the people above, a lot of the issues people have seems to stem from allowing quite a lot of leeway to the PC with the familiar/the party.
Got to remember that the party doesn't see anything, the familiar does and he's not telling. And when the PC looks through his familiar he is still limited to the familiars crappy senses and what the familiar decides to look at. And having one of the PCs be, in effect, continually incapacitated is going to put a quite severe limit on the party's mode of transport.
And I can get why some think that that's not how one would treat ones familiar (while others would be completely OK with the practice). However setting off a trap should rarely be cost free in itself. It might alert guards, it might destroy whatever was trapped, it might close of/block doors/passageways or any number of other things. If the DM only uses traps to add a bit of damage to the adventuring day then I don't see the big issue with the party negating that by using a familiar tbh.
Shouldn't you pretty much always be on the clock, to some degree, though?
Also for anything past just audio surveillance the mouse (or whatever form is preferred) will have crappy senses and very limited manual dexterity so there will be a lot of situations where a familiar just cannot get the job done, even if all you want is some sort of recon.
Yea that seems a bit off compared to most other spells but I'm not sure it have much of an in-game impact. Also just because you can make it appear in a spot that you can't see it doesn't mean you know where to put it. It might end up in the wrong space/room or worse, inside walls/object (which likely should kill it instantly).
Yeah if you put it in a wall it's for sure dead
You can't kill it this way. The ability specifies that you can only cause it to reappear in unoccupied spaces. Attempting to do otherwise just fails.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'd still say you waste the attempt trying, which can be a bad thing in a time crunch situation, but I agree you can't kill a familiar this way.
OK but the point stands that not being able to see into the room doesn't really provide a huge benefit....
Overall the spell is fine as is if you just actually use common sense and RAW limitations.