I am with the OP in terms of the problems that familiars can cause. Mostly the issue is that the familiar expands the party's capabilities dramatically but does so in a safe, resource-cost-free way. The DM shouldn't have to continually bring in unlikely solutions to deal with a pigeon or a rat, and as the OP states, the players become very aware that you're doing it because you just don't want it.
Here are some of the issues I've encountered:
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
I've watched hawks swoop down and kill other birds for food. The scout familiar would be a prime target for other predators. In addition, 150' is out of communications range for most familiars so it can't actually report anything it sees.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Again, predators in a natural environment are a significant risk. Yes a familiar can provide some information and it is useful but it isn't game breaking unless the DM allows the familiar to do a lot. Consider this - in a world where familiars are common, most places would have trained predators on the walls or in the yards (cats, hawks etc) attacking anything that doesn't belong including strange birds or cats.
Setting off traps, or "I wonder what this does?": See Frumpkin in Critical Role. He's used like a disposable party member to test out magical traps or runic circles or whatever. A "live test" animal, essentially.
Most familiars should be incapable of setting off any trap. Tripwires, pressure plates, collapsing floors or walls - all of these are designed to not trigger for the light weight or force that most familiars can exert. Creatures don't usually design traps so that a random rat can trigger it. On top of that, when a familiar triggers a trap it is often just gone at that point.
Note: Warlock familiars might be somewhat of an exception since they are intelligent, flying and invisible but they still might not be able to trigger a trap - they are still tiny - and that assumes that they even notice it.
Innocuous espionage: Want to overhear what's going on over there? Send in the mouse. This can be fun once or twice! And then again, and again, and again?
And yes, the problem with killing the familiar off is that unless you're on a clock, it's practically free to summon it.
This depends on what is in the conversation and how many hours the players want to listen. Most conversation will have very little content of interest unless it is a specific meeting. In addition, there are quite a few eavesdropping and clairvoyant type spells that would do a better job. Sure a familiar is somewhat good for this at level 3 - higher levels there are better choices ... and that assumes that the people being listened to haven't taken any precautions since they also KNOW that familiars exist.
Also, Detect Evil and Good would reveal the presence of fey, fiend or celestial familiars - it is a 1st level divination and lasts 10 minutes with a range of 30' - decent adversaries would have someone cast this and then have a signal if such a creature shows up or is present.
Detect Thoughts can be used to discover creatures you can't see - it would not find a mouse but if a character is looking through the eyes of the familiar I might rule that it might detect the character using the familiar (though that might not be RAW).
Anyway, in a world full of magic there are many things that the creatures who want to have a private conversation can do to keep it private and in a world of magic they would do so.
Teleports through walls:As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you. No sight requirement!
This is a DM call but the wording is that "You can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet". A character can't KNOW that a space is unoccupied if they can't see or otherwise sense that space. As a result I would tend to rule that a character can have the familiar reappear in any space that they know is unoccupied which would require them to be able to see or otherwise sense that space but that is just how I would interpret it (though it isn't strictly RAW).
I would not allow a character to randomly try to summon their familiar into spaces within 30' that they couldn't see searching for spaces/gaps/hidden rooms.
It would be easier to argue that the Wizard shouldn't be able to ever take an hour's break to cast a spell, if taking an hour's break wasn't a core mechanic that every class relies upon to function, and that there are several spells and features present in the game to facilitate.
I do like the idea of the familiar dying in an obviously magical way, and in so doing, revealing there's a Wizard.
I roll for random encounters every time the crew takes a short rest or is inactive 1 hour. Amazing how often the party just says “not worth it - let’s forget the familiar for now.”
I’m also of the opinion that this has never been an issue in my games.
Scouting? You better be damn sure if I have goblins protecting my sanctum and know that Find Familiar is a level 1 spell, I’m telling them to kill whatever comes in the room, for target practice or food.
Help action? All my baddies weigh the benefits of killing a Familiar fairly high - advantage every round? That’s a silly thing to allow, get rid of the Familiar ASAP.
This, combined with the normal RAW limitations, requires an hour to re-cast (at which point a random encounter could be triggered and slows the party down), the cost being prohibitive at levels 1-5… this has never even occurred to me that this spell needed adjustment.
I think making familiars a fairly common feature in your game world is a good way to keep them from feeling too broken for players. Just letting the enemies have their own familiars can drastically shift the dynamic in your favor. It also implies that familiars are a well known phenomenon, so if enemies have some idea of how to deal with familiars it doesn't feel like you're just punishing them for having familiars of their own.
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Familiars usually have an INT of 1 or 2, so they'll soon get bored of "scouting ahead", or get distracted by spotting food rather than what the party want them to notice.
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
Once I read what the spell did you mean? I want to challenge the PCs so I generally read what they can do and balance around that.
In this case I think that yeah if the PC started to use the familiar I would think about how the world would react to it
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
Once I read what the spell did you mean? I want to challenge the PCs so I generally read what they can do and balance around that.
In this case I think that yeah if the PC started to use the familiar I would think about how the world would react to it
Are you saying you've never actually had a player use Find Familiar at your table?
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
1. I have been playing Familiars the same since I switched to 5e (Familiars are different in previous editions and games). It just seemed natural.
2. I have had multiple characters with Familiars and never have I felt "nerfed". It just does what a level 1 spell does.
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
Once I read what the spell did you mean? I want to challenge the PCs so I generally read what they can do and balance around that.
In this case I think that yeah if the PC started to use the familiar I would think about how the world would react to it
Are you saying you've never actually had a player use Find Familiar at your table?
No I'm saying I had one immediately and read what the spell did and it's limits...
And just like any other spell held it to those limits.
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
1. I have been playing Familiars the same since I switched to 5e (Familiars are different in previous editions and games). It just seemed natural.
2. I have had multiple characters with Familiars and never have I felt "nerfed". It just does what a level 1 spell does.
Feels a bit like you're dodging the questions. 1. Since they are different in previous editions and games, have your countermeasures for those games been appropriate for this one? 2. And your DMs have used these countermeasures?
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
1. I have been playing Familiars the same since I switched to 5e (Familiars are different in previous editions and games). It just seemed natural.
2. I have had multiple characters with Familiars and never have I felt "nerfed". It just does what a level 1 spell does.
Feels a bit like you're dodging the questions. 1. Since they are different in previous editions and games, have your countermeasures for those games been appropriate for this one? 2. And your DMs have used these countermeasures?
1. No dodging, just a direct answer to the original question. No I didn't brainstorm anything, it all just fell in naturally. As to 5e vs other games/editions, they didn't use the same rules so of course you can't treat them the same.
2. Yes, all the DM's I have played with treat familiars pretty much the same as I and many of the other posters here do.
Why wouldn’t familiars need to make perception or stealth checks? That’s why they have those skills or special traits they have, to use them. Why wouldn’t guards react to a owl or bat flying around in the castle? Why wouldn’t someone squish a spider they see crawling around? Why wouldn’t a maid react to a weasel running around? Why wouldn’t folks go “wait a minute, WTF is that octopus or crab doing running down the hall?” Why would a rat be strong enough to trip a trap?
The reason Chainpact is so baller is because those critters have invisibility and stuff. Those are huge advantages. If the DM is just handing out no stealth freebie detailed map layouts to every familiar, then no wonder it’s being abused.
Why wouldn’t familiars need to make perception or stealth checks? That’s why they have those skills or special traits they have, to use them. Why wouldn’t guards react to a owl or bat flying around in the castle? Why wouldn’t someone squish a spider they see crawling around? Why wouldn’t a maid react to a weasel running around? Why wouldn’t folks go “wait a minute, WTF is that octopus or crab doing running down the hall?” Why would a rat be strong enough to trip a trap?
The reason Chainpact is so baller is because those critters have invisibility and stuff. Those are huge advantages. If the DM is just handing out no stealth freebie detailed map layouts to every familiar, then no wonder it’s being abused.
I think some people over estimate the capabilities of CR 0 Beasts.
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
1. I have been playing Familiars the same since I switched to 5e (Familiars are different in previous editions and games). It just seemed natural.
2. I have had multiple characters with Familiars and never have I felt "nerfed". It just does what a level 1 spell does.
Feels a bit like you're dodging the questions. 1. Since they are different in previous editions and games, have your countermeasures for those games been appropriate for this one? 2. And your DMs have used these countermeasures?
1. No dodging, just a direct answer to the original question. No I didn't brainstorm anything, it all just fell in naturally. As to 5e vs other games/editions, they didn't use the same rules so of course you can't treat them the same.
2. Yes, all the DM's I have played with treat familiars pretty much the same as I and many of the other posters here do.
My dodging comment probably came off as rude. Apologies. What I mean to say is, 1. I think you're interpreting "brainstorm" to mean "gave it a lot of thought," rather than the way I meant it, which is "devised it in response to stimuli." My point here is not that you had to go to extraordinary lengths to invent preposterous methods. I thought I was pretty clear that I find many of these methods quite reasonable. They do not stretch the limits of what's plausible in the fiction, or anything like that. My point is simply to ask whether these were things you did without consideration for familiars. In your particular case, it's not a question that makes a lot of sense, because your first dealings with familiars were pre-5e. But in my case, having played other editions but never having dealt with familiars in them, it would make sense.
2. Fair enough. You don't have to round up all your buddies and beat me up over it. Do you recall your first dealings with said countermeasures from your DMs? Was there a period of expectation-readjustment, or were your impressions of the limits of the spell in sync with your DM's from the start? In other words, if you recall the time when you would have had the opportunity to feel you were being nerfed, did you at that time feel that way?
These questions are intended to spark conversation, not to prove a point. I'm not here to defend Find Familiar or to make an argument that it should be allowed to do more, or do less, or do anything at all. If anything, I'm of the opinion that the spell leads inevitably to situations that are, while not exactly game-ruining, still less comfy than I tend to prefer from my game mechanics. But if it bears out that I'm wrong, that's cool too.
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
Once I read what the spell did you mean? I want to challenge the PCs so I generally read what they can do and balance around that.
In this case I think that yeah if the PC started to use the familiar I would think about how the world would react to it
Are you saying you've never actually had a player use Find Familiar at your table?
No I'm saying I had one immediately and read what the spell did and it's limits...
And just like any other spell held it to those limits.
So, a player at your table has used Find Familiar, then?
I am with the OP in terms of the problems that familiars can cause. Mostly the issue is that the familiar expands the party's capabilities dramatically but does so in a safe, resource-cost-free way. The DM shouldn't have to continually bring in unlikely solutions to deal with a pigeon or a rat, and as the OP states, the players become very aware that you're doing it because you just don't want it.
Here are some of the issues I've encountered:
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
I've watched hawks swoop down and kill other birds for food. The scout familiar would be a prime target for other predators. In addition, 150' is out of communications range for most familiars so it can't actually report anything it sees.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Again, predators in a natural environment are a significant risk. Yes a familiar can provide some information and it is useful but it isn't game breaking unless the DM allows the familiar to do a lot. Consider this - in a world where familiars are common, most places would have trained predators on the walls or in the yards (cats, hawks etc) attacking anything that doesn't belong including strange birds or cats.
Communication range is not an issue. The familiar can fly up, have a look, fly down, communicate. Easy.
This thinking about "attack the familiar" falls into the trap of "There is a possibility that there could be a predator, so that rare possibility eliminates the constantly occurring problem." I have never, ever, seen a bird of prey attack another bird of prey. It would be the rarest of the rare. Moreover, flying predators are rare enough that as a DM you might get away with this once in a campaign: any more than that, and you're just shutting down a legitimate use of the familiar by making the world overly hostile to it. Most normal animals live out their whole lives without being killed by a predator - those that are eaten are the exception, not the rule. This is DM Metagaming, and the familiar's owner will just stop by the wayside and resummon it. Kill it twice and the metagaming becomes embarrasing.
I am down with the idea of trained hawks etc. but why would familiars be common? Adventurers are rare. Wizards and other spellcasters are rare. This is again, DM Metagaming if it's used frequently.
If the answer to prevent a single level 1 spell being overpowered is "I will design the world and add combat encounters specifically to deal with it" then the spell is a problem.
Setting off traps, or "I wonder what this does?": See Frumpkin in Critical Role. He's used like a disposable party member to test out magical traps or runic circles or whatever. A "live test" animal, essentially.
Most familiars should be incapable of setting off any trap. Tripwires, pressure plates, collapsing floors or walls - all of these are designed to not trigger for the light weight or force that most familiars can exert. Creatures don't usually design traps so that a random rat can trigger it. On top of that, when a familiar triggers a trap it is often just gone at that point.
Note: Warlock familiars might be somewhat of an exception since they are intelligent, flying and invisible but they still might not be able to trigger a trap - they are still tiny - and that assumes that they even notice it.
But they do set off certain traps, especially if being used as a test subject. I actually specify weight limits for pressure plates (50lbs for 1 person traps, 200lbs for pits I want to catch 2 characters in). Many magical traps have no physical trigger beyond "If a living creature enters the room/passes over point X." The point here though was less about traps and more about "We don't know what this circle of runes does. In you go, Frumpkin!" Can also be applied to "Here, drink this.
Familiar intelligence is good for shutting down far-ranging familiars (they will probably just start looking for food), but they can always remember what they saw when you get them back in range. The spell ought to prevent the familiar from going too far away. I once had a very annoying player running a Half Elf Paladin use Find Steed to bring out a mastiff she couldn't ride, then basically use it as a disguised telepathic spy in a town to a range of 1 mile (as DM, unless the dog starts acting weird or tries breaking in somewhere, on a town street it should not draw any attention).
At the point where the DM is having the NPCs cast spells like Prot Evil and Good before having a conversation, this is again metagaming to stop familiars. You're now painting the following picture:
The wilderness is so full of flying predators that it's too deadly for birds of prey to fly
Everyone keeps trained animals specifically to deal with familiars
NPCs cast spells in their own homes on the off chance that a familiar that they have not detected might be present. They expend their limited spell slots seemingly at random. Do the players do this?
If you're going to these lengths then you're building the world to counteract a single level 1 spell. The thing is, spells should get used, and it's fine if players use them to do cool stuff! The main issue with Find Familiar is that it's a permanent ability advantage. Most other spells - like the Prot Good and Evil etc. you mentioned - you cast once, and get a limited duration. If NPCs are burning their spells "just in case" then this is still a massive advantage to the PCs. They should have no spell slots by the end of a day.
I am with the OP in terms of the problems that familiars can cause. Mostly the issue is that the familiar expands the party's capabilities dramatically but does so in a safe, resource-cost-free way. The DM shouldn't have to continually bring in unlikely solutions to deal with a pigeon or a rat, and as the OP states, the players become very aware that you're doing it because you just don't want it.
Here are some of the issues I've encountered:
Travelling: Why would I not have my familiar constantly flying 150ft up in the sky, searching all around the party for enemies? Unless the DM plans ambushes so that the creatures have total cover from the sky, then there are no ambushes. If the DM does this often, then the familiar has been neutralised. Lose-lose.
I've watched hawks swoop down and kill other birds for food. The scout familiar would be a prime target for other predators. In addition, 150' is out of communications range for most familiars so it can't actually report anything it sees.
Scouting ahead: The PCs rarely get to see things first time for themselves, because the familiar is always at the fore. This is much worse for outdoor locations than indoor ones.
Again, predators in a natural environment are a significant risk. Yes a familiar can provide some information and it is useful but it isn't game breaking unless the DM allows the familiar to do a lot. Consider this - in a world where familiars are common, most places would have trained predators on the walls or in the yards (cats, hawks etc) attacking anything that doesn't belong including strange birds or cats.
This thinking about "attack the familiar" falls into the trap of "There is a possibility that there could be a predator, so that rare possibility eliminates the constantly occurring problem." I have never, ever, seen a bird of prey attack another bird of prey. It would be the rarest of the rare. Moreover, flying predators are rare enough that as a DM you might get away with this once in a campaign: any more than that, and you're just shutting down a legitimate use of the familiar by making the world overly hostile to it. Most normal animals live out their whole lives without being killed by a predator - those that are eaten are the exception, not the rule. This is DM Metagaming, and the familiar's owner will just stop by the wayside and resummon it. Kill it twice and the metagaming becomes embarrasing.
Whether you've seen it or not, birds of prey will indeed attack other birds of prey - over territory, over food, or enmity (eagles & ospreys are known for this.) An owl familiar out in the daytime is not unlikely to be chased off or attacked by wary hawks if in their territory. A flying familiar out in any natural environment, or any place with cats, should absolutely be needing to make stealth and perception checks or else risk getting *poofed* or failing their mission. Also, if it was true that most normal animals lived out their whole lives without being killed by a predator, we'd be waist-deep in mice and rats and surrounded by clouds of flies and mosquitos.
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I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
Once I read what the spell did you mean? I want to challenge the PCs so I generally read what they can do and balance around that.
In this case I think that yeah if the PC started to use the familiar I would think about how the world would react to it
Are you saying you've never actually had a player use Find Familiar at your table?
No I'm saying I had one immediately and read what the spell did and it's limits...
And just like any other spell held it to those limits.
So, a player at your table has used Find Familiar, then?
Yes and it was not distributive in the slightest.
YMMV if you choose to let the spell do more then it says it can
1. <snip>.... My point is simply to ask whether these were things you did without consideration for familiars. In your particular case, it's not a question that makes a lot of sense, because your first dealings with familiars were pre-5e. But in my case, having played other editions but never having dealt with familiars in them, it would make sense.
To put it simply, when I looked at the Familiar all I saw was a common household cat. The caster does get to do a few things but the cat itself is pretty much just a cat. Can you really imagine a cat mapping out a dungeon or looking for traps? When a caster is using the Familiars senses, they see things as the Familiar sees them and they don't gain control over the Familiar like some kind of drone. It is just a Cat doing its best to do what it is told using its extremely low intelligence to do so.
2. <snip> Do you recall your first dealings with said countermeasures from your DMs? Was there a period of expectation-readjustment, or were your impressions of the limits of the spell in sync with your DM's from the start? In other words, if you recall the time when you would have had the opportunity to feel you were being nerfed, did you at that time feel that way?
I never had expectations for a Familiar to be capable of much. I did and do use it to scout from time to time, but I don't expect much from the expeditions. Most of them can't see in the dark nor are they very stealthy so what would be the point of sending them into a dark room when they more likely to alert the enemy than provide useful information? That is not to say they don't have their uses, but they are extremely limited by their Stat Block. In combat, a creature with 1hp isn't going to last very long so I tend to hide them away unless I really need them to deliver a crucial spell, which is extremely rare.
If your players are expecting a Familiar to do all the things you listed in your OP, just remind them that it is just a Cat. If they insist on sitting around waiting for the Wizard to herd a cat through the dungeon, make sure they make the appropriate rolls using the Familiar's low stats and have the Familiar return (if it doesn't get squished) with information appropriate for a creature with a 2 Intelligence.
I've watched hawks swoop down and kill other birds for food. The scout familiar would be a prime target for other predators. In addition, 150' is out of communications range for most familiars so it can't actually report anything it sees.
Again, predators in a natural environment are a significant risk. Yes a familiar can provide some information and it is useful but it isn't game breaking unless the DM allows the familiar to do a lot. Consider this - in a world where familiars are common, most places would have trained predators on the walls or in the yards (cats, hawks etc) attacking anything that doesn't belong including strange birds or cats.
Most familiars should be incapable of setting off any trap. Tripwires, pressure plates, collapsing floors or walls - all of these are designed to not trigger for the light weight or force that most familiars can exert. Creatures don't usually design traps so that a random rat can trigger it. On top of that, when a familiar triggers a trap it is often just gone at that point.
Note: Warlock familiars might be somewhat of an exception since they are intelligent, flying and invisible but they still might not be able to trigger a trap - they are still tiny - and that assumes that they even notice it.
This depends on what is in the conversation and how many hours the players want to listen. Most conversation will have very little content of interest unless it is a specific meeting. In addition, there are quite a few eavesdropping and clairvoyant type spells that would do a better job. Sure a familiar is somewhat good for this at level 3 - higher levels there are better choices ... and that assumes that the people being listened to haven't taken any precautions since they also KNOW that familiars exist.
Also, Detect Evil and Good would reveal the presence of fey, fiend or celestial familiars - it is a 1st level divination and lasts 10 minutes with a range of 30' - decent adversaries would have someone cast this and then have a signal if such a creature shows up or is present.
Detect Thoughts can be used to discover creatures you can't see - it would not find a mouse but if a character is looking through the eyes of the familiar I might rule that it might detect the character using the familiar (though that might not be RAW).
Anyway, in a world full of magic there are many things that the creatures who want to have a private conversation can do to keep it private and in a world of magic they would do so.
This is a DM call but the wording is that "You can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet". A character can't KNOW that a space is unoccupied if they can't see or otherwise sense that space. As a result I would tend to rule that a character can have the familiar reappear in any space that they know is unoccupied which would require them to be able to see or otherwise sense that space but that is just how I would interpret it (though it isn't strictly RAW).
I would not allow a character to randomly try to summon their familiar into spaces within 30' that they couldn't see searching for spaces/gaps/hidden rooms.
I roll for random encounters every time the crew takes a short rest or is inactive 1 hour. Amazing how often the party just says “not worth it - let’s forget the familiar for now.”
I’m also of the opinion that this has never been an issue in my games.
Scouting? You better be damn sure if I have goblins protecting my sanctum and know that Find Familiar is a level 1 spell, I’m telling them to kill whatever comes in the room, for target practice or food.
Help action? All my baddies weigh the benefits of killing a Familiar fairly high - advantage every round? That’s a silly thing to allow, get rid of the Familiar ASAP.
This, combined with the normal RAW limitations, requires an hour to re-cast (at which point a random encounter could be triggered and slows the party down), the cost being prohibitive at levels 1-5… this has never even occurred to me that this spell needed adjustment.
I think making familiars a fairly common feature in your game world is a good way to keep them from feeling too broken for players. Just letting the enemies have their own familiars can drastically shift the dynamic in your favor. It also implies that familiars are a well known phenomenon, so if enemies have some idea of how to deal with familiars it doesn't feel like you're just punishing them for having familiars of their own.
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Familiars usually have an INT of 1 or 2, so they'll soon get bored of "scouting ahead", or get distracted by spotting food rather than what the party want them to notice.
I've heard a lot of reasonable ways to counter familiars, but I'm still left with two questions.
1. Are these things you all naturally applied during your games, or did you brainstorm them after you realized this spell was doing something you didn't like?
2. Even though the solutions are reasonable, if any of you were the player with the spell, will you honestly say you wouldn't feel your DM was going out of their way to nerf you?
Once I read what the spell did you mean? I want to challenge the PCs so I generally read what they can do and balance around that.
In this case I think that yeah if the PC started to use the familiar I would think about how the world would react to it
Are you saying you've never actually had a player use Find Familiar at your table?
1. I have been playing Familiars the same since I switched to 5e (Familiars are different in previous editions and games). It just seemed natural.
2. I have had multiple characters with Familiars and never have I felt "nerfed". It just does what a level 1 spell does.
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No I'm saying I had one immediately and read what the spell did and it's limits...
And just like any other spell held it to those limits.
Feels a bit like you're dodging the questions.
1. Since they are different in previous editions and games, have your countermeasures for those games been appropriate for this one?
2. And your DMs have used these countermeasures?
1. No dodging, just a direct answer to the original question. No I didn't brainstorm anything, it all just fell in naturally. As to 5e vs other games/editions, they didn't use the same rules so of course you can't treat them the same.
2. Yes, all the DM's I have played with treat familiars pretty much the same as I and many of the other posters here do.
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Why wouldn’t familiars need to make perception or stealth checks? That’s why they have those skills or special traits they have, to use them. Why wouldn’t guards react to a owl or bat flying around in the castle? Why wouldn’t someone squish a spider they see crawling around? Why wouldn’t a maid react to a weasel running around? Why wouldn’t folks go “wait a minute, WTF is that octopus or crab doing running down the hall?” Why would a rat be strong enough to trip a trap?
The reason Chainpact is so baller is because those critters have invisibility and stuff. Those are huge advantages. If the DM is just handing out no stealth freebie detailed map layouts to every familiar, then no wonder it’s being abused.
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I think some people over estimate the capabilities of CR 0 Beasts.
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My dodging comment probably came off as rude. Apologies. What I mean to say is,
1. I think you're interpreting "brainstorm" to mean "gave it a lot of thought," rather than the way I meant it, which is "devised it in response to stimuli." My point here is not that you had to go to extraordinary lengths to invent preposterous methods. I thought I was pretty clear that I find many of these methods quite reasonable. They do not stretch the limits of what's plausible in the fiction, or anything like that. My point is simply to ask whether these were things you did without consideration for familiars. In your particular case, it's not a question that makes a lot of sense, because your first dealings with familiars were pre-5e. But in my case, having played other editions but never having dealt with familiars in them, it would make sense.
2. Fair enough. You don't have to round up all your buddies and beat me up over it. Do you recall your first dealings with said countermeasures from your DMs? Was there a period of expectation-readjustment, or were your impressions of the limits of the spell in sync with your DM's from the start? In other words, if you recall the time when you would have had the opportunity to feel you were being nerfed, did you at that time feel that way?
These questions are intended to spark conversation, not to prove a point. I'm not here to defend Find Familiar or to make an argument that it should be allowed to do more, or do less, or do anything at all. If anything, I'm of the opinion that the spell leads inevitably to situations that are, while not exactly game-ruining, still less comfy than I tend to prefer from my game mechanics. But if it bears out that I'm wrong, that's cool too.
So, a player at your table has used Find Familiar, then?
This thinking about "attack the familiar" falls into the trap of "There is a possibility that there could be a predator, so that rare possibility eliminates the constantly occurring problem." I have never, ever, seen a bird of prey attack another bird of prey. It would be the rarest of the rare. Moreover, flying predators are rare enough that as a DM you might get away with this once in a campaign: any more than that, and you're just shutting down a legitimate use of the familiar by making the world overly hostile to it. Most normal animals live out their whole lives without being killed by a predator - those that are eaten are the exception, not the rule. This is DM Metagaming, and the familiar's owner will just stop by the wayside and resummon it. Kill it twice and the metagaming becomes embarrasing.
I am down with the idea of trained hawks etc. but why would familiars be common? Adventurers are rare. Wizards and other spellcasters are rare. This is again, DM Metagaming if it's used frequently.
If the answer to prevent a single level 1 spell being overpowered is "I will design the world and add combat encounters specifically to deal with it" then the spell is a problem.
But they do set off certain traps, especially if being used as a test subject. I actually specify weight limits for pressure plates (50lbs for 1 person traps, 200lbs for pits I want to catch 2 characters in). Many magical traps have no physical trigger beyond "If a living creature enters the room/passes over point X." The point here though was less about traps and more about "We don't know what this circle of runes does. In you go, Frumpkin!" Can also be applied to "Here, drink this.
Familiar intelligence is good for shutting down far-ranging familiars (they will probably just start looking for food), but they can always remember what they saw when you get them back in range. The spell ought to prevent the familiar from going too far away. I once had a very annoying player running a Half Elf Paladin use Find Steed to bring out a mastiff she couldn't ride, then basically use it as a disguised telepathic spy in a town to a range of 1 mile (as DM, unless the dog starts acting weird or tries breaking in somewhere, on a town street it should not draw any attention).
At the point where the DM is having the NPCs cast spells like Prot Evil and Good before having a conversation, this is again metagaming to stop familiars. You're now painting the following picture:
If you're going to these lengths then you're building the world to counteract a single level 1 spell. The thing is, spells should get used, and it's fine if players use them to do cool stuff! The main issue with Find Familiar is that it's a permanent ability advantage. Most other spells - like the Prot Good and Evil etc. you mentioned - you cast once, and get a limited duration. If NPCs are burning their spells "just in case" then this is still a massive advantage to the PCs. They should have no spell slots by the end of a day.
Whether you've seen it or not, birds of prey will indeed attack other birds of prey - over territory, over food, or enmity (eagles & ospreys are known for this.) An owl familiar out in the daytime is not unlikely to be chased off or attacked by wary hawks if in their territory. A flying familiar out in any natural environment, or any place with cats, should absolutely be needing to make stealth and perception checks or else risk getting *poofed* or failing their mission. Also, if it was true that most normal animals lived out their whole lives without being killed by a predator, we'd be waist-deep in mice and rats and surrounded by clouds of flies and mosquitos.
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Yes and it was not distributive in the slightest.
YMMV if you choose to let the spell do more then it says it can
To put it simply, when I looked at the Familiar all I saw was a common household cat. The caster does get to do a few things but the cat itself is pretty much just a cat. Can you really imagine a cat mapping out a dungeon or looking for traps? When a caster is using the Familiars senses, they see things as the Familiar sees them and they don't gain control over the Familiar like some kind of drone. It is just a Cat doing its best to do what it is told using its extremely low intelligence to do so.
I never had expectations for a Familiar to be capable of much. I did and do use it to scout from time to time, but I don't expect much from the expeditions. Most of them can't see in the dark nor are they very stealthy so what would be the point of sending them into a dark room when they more likely to alert the enemy than provide useful information? That is not to say they don't have their uses, but they are extremely limited by their Stat Block. In combat, a creature with 1hp isn't going to last very long so I tend to hide them away unless I really need them to deliver a crucial spell, which is extremely rare.
If your players are expecting a Familiar to do all the things you listed in your OP, just remind them that it is just a Cat. If they insist on sitting around waiting for the Wizard to herd a cat through the dungeon, make sure they make the appropriate rolls using the Familiar's low stats and have the Familiar return (if it doesn't get squished) with information appropriate for a creature with a 2 Intelligence.
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