(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
Just a couple of clarifications. Keep in mind that this is a RAW discussion and you are welcome to run your game however you like.
...
The character's int is 2. Cats and Dogs are smarter than this creature.
Dogs? You have RAW Int stat for dogs? That's a pretty neat trick.
However, there are two areas of DM discretion in the description of the spell.
1) What does INT mean? I usually interpret an INT of 2 which is less than that of a dog or cat - to mean that the creature has less cognitive ability than a dog or cat. You can certainly interpret it to mean an inability to acquire new information. However, in comparison to other creatures with an INT of 2, I would not tend to interpret it that way. The stat block of the character is REPLACED by the stat block of a T-rex - the character BECOMES a T-rex - I interpret this to mean that the character now has ALL the characteristics of a T-rex, both mental and physical. I think that position is supported by comparing to other creatures with INT of 2 and the statement that the character stat block is replaced with the beast stat block.
"Mental acuity, information recall, analytical skill" This is what the PHB says Int is. A DM can disagree if they really want to, but I thought you wanted a RAW chat?
2) What does alignment and personality - particularly "personality" mean? Alignment is pretty easy - if they are good they stay good, if they are evil they stay evil. However, personality I usually interpret to mean exactly that. "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." Are they typically happy, sad, melancholy, easy to anger, mean, petty, jealous, impatient. The definition of "personality" is what the character is LIKE - not what they know, not their memories, not their ability to reason at a high level.
This means they continue to be controlled by the same player. They're operating under the same guiding principles, same alignment, same personality. IE you don't force them to go on a rampage, because the spell doesn't tell you that is what the spell does.
So when I have a polymorphed beast in my games they can't understand language unless a druid casts a speak with animals spell. They retain alignment and personality so they won't attack their friends and they WILL attack anything that looks hostile to their friends (or if they are hungry and could use a snack). I'd allow an animal handling check from a friend to try to convince it execute a simple task (like bash down a door) but the complexity of the task it could understand is limited by its intelligence.
The spell doesn't say it strips them of knowledge they already possessed. You can homebrew such a restriction if you want, but we are, per your request, sticking to RAW discussion here I thought? Polymorph doesn't cause forgetfulness, or loss of memory. If a spell made you forget languages, not understand languages, or lose memories, it would say so.
In fact, there are spells that do exact that, and they do say so. feeblemind for example says "On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. The creature can't cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them."
This drops them all the way to one to knock out their capacity for understanding language, and even this level of low-Int they still recognize friends and protect them... ie not rampage against them.
What about memory? If a spell was going to delete their memories it'd also say so. modify memory says "While this charm lasts, you can affect the target's memory of an event that it experienced within the last 24 hours and that lasted no more than 10 minutes. You can permanently eliminate all memory of the event, allow the target to recall the event with perfect clarity and exacting detail, change its memory of the details of the event, or create a memory of some other event."
So if polymorph was supposed to modify someone's memory or understanding then it'd straight up say so. if it wiped out their capacity to understand language it would straight up say so.
The fact it doesn't say so means it doesn't do so, not by RAW.
All of that is supported by RAW, however, since what INT and personality mean are both a DM call - how polymorph runs in various people's games WILL differ a lot. However, either way, a T-rex is unable to understand any language (since there is no language in its stat block and the rules are very explicit) which leads me to conclude that the polymorphed T-rex does not retain knowledge in general including languages - they don't know that they were a PC in another life :)
General knowledge of past lived experience is NOT on your stat block. If you cause Polymorph to inflict a more severe version of a 5th level spell, modify memory in addition to its normal effects you are homebrewing. if you are additionally having them suffer additional effects similar to an 8th level spell, feeblemind you are again, homebrewing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
Just a couple of clarifications. Keep in mind that this is a RAW discussion and you are welcome to run your game however you like.
...
The character's int is 2. Cats and Dogs are smarter than this creature.
Dogs? You have RAW Int stat for dogs? That's a pretty neat trick.
A mastiff is a dog. Not sure if there are other regular dogs in the core rules.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
Just a couple of clarifications. Keep in mind that this is a RAW discussion and you are welcome to run your game however you like.
...
The character's int is 2. Cats and Dogs are smarter than this creature.
Dogs? You have RAW Int stat for dogs? That's a pretty neat trick.
However, there are two areas of DM discretion in the description of the spell.
1) What does INT mean? I usually interpret an INT of 2 which is less than that of a dog or cat - to mean that the creature has less cognitive ability than a dog or cat. You can certainly interpret it to mean an inability to acquire new information. However, in comparison to other creatures with an INT of 2, I would not tend to interpret it that way. The stat block of the character is REPLACED by the stat block of a T-rex - the character BECOMES a T-rex - I interpret this to mean that the character now has ALL the characteristics of a T-rex, both mental and physical. I think that position is supported by comparing to other creatures with INT of 2 and the statement that the character stat block is replaced with the beast stat block.
"Mental acuity, information recall, analytical skill" This is what the PHB says Int is. A DM can disagree if they really want to, but I thought you wanted a RAW chat?
2) What does alignment and personality - particularly "personality" mean? Alignment is pretty easy - if they are good they stay good, if they are evil they stay evil. However, personality I usually interpret to mean exactly that. "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." Are they typically happy, sad, melancholy, easy to anger, mean, petty, jealous, impatient. The definition of "personality" is what the character is LIKE - not what they know, not their memories, not their ability to reason at a high level.
This means they continue to be controlled by the same player. They're operating under the same guiding principles, same alignment, same personality. IE you don't force them to go on a rampage, because the spell doesn't tell you that is what the spell does.
So when I have a polymorphed beast in my games they can't understand language unless a druid casts a speak with animals spell. They retain alignment and personality so they won't attack their friends and they WILL attack anything that looks hostile to their friends (or if they are hungry and could use a snack). I'd allow an animal handling check from a friend to try to convince it execute a simple task (like bash down a door) but the complexity of the task it could understand is limited by its intelligence.
The spell doesn't say it strips them of knowledge they already possessed. You can homebrew such a restriction if you want, but we are, per your request, sticking to RAW discussion here I thought? Polymorph doesn't cause forgetfulness, or loss of memory. If a spell made you forget languages, not understand languages, or lose memories, it would say so.
In fact, there are spells that do exact that, and they do say so. feeblemind for example says "On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. The creature can't cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them."
This drops them all the way to one to knock out their capacity for understanding language, and even this level of low-Int they still recognize friends and protect them... ie not rampage against them.
What about memory? If a spell was going to delete their memories it'd also say so. modify memory says "While this charm lasts, you can affect the target's memory of an event that it experienced within the last 24 hours and that lasted no more than 10 minutes. You can permanently eliminate all memory of the event, allow the target to recall the event with perfect clarity and exacting detail, change its memory of the details of the event, or create a memory of some other event."
So if polymorph was supposed to modify someone's memory or understanding then it'd straight up say so. if it wiped out their capacity to understand language it would straight up say so.
The fact it doesn't say so means it doesn't do so, not by RAW.
All of that is supported by RAW, however, since what INT and personality mean are both a DM call - how polymorph runs in various people's games WILL differ a lot. However, either way, a T-rex is unable to understand any language (since there is no language in its stat block and the rules are very explicit) which leads me to conclude that the polymorphed T-rex does not retain knowledge in general including languages - they don't know that they were a PC in another life :)
General knowledge of past lived experience is NOT on your stat block. If you cause Polymorph to inflict a more severe version of a 5th level spell, modify memory in addition to its normal effects you are homebrewing. if you are additionally having them suffer additional effects similar to an 8th level spell, feeblemind you are again, homebrewing.
Would a character polymorphed into a 3 int t-rex lose some language comprehension ability? Quite possibly. Would they lose the capacity to understand language? There's nothing in RAW directly to that effect. RAW, a change in Intelligence might only relate to a change in "accuracy of recall". There's no reason to think that the information wouldn't all be there. It might just get a bit fuzzy.
Critical Role's Caleb plays imo a flavourful t-rex. I'm curious to review with the current issue in mind.
Last session, I polymorphed the party's cleric into a tyrannosaurus rex, and we stormed a cult hideout. The cultists were bombarding us with spells, but they were mostly firing at the t-rex. The DM was frustrated that a 4th level spell was wreaking so much havoc on the ground floor and its inhabitants. I recommended to the DM, "Um, they don't have to bring the t-rex to zero if they can just break my concentration." The DM replied that no, even after bombarding the t-rex with damage (and me with a few spells), they could not discern that I was the real caster.
WHAT?! It can't be this easy, right? Is there no indication that a creature is making a saving throw to maintain concentration? Because I don't wanna have to deal with the enemies using this trick on us (this DM would absolutely do that).
There is nothing about this RAW, but this has been posed to Jeremy Crawford in the past which may help you work out a solution with your DM and party.
Is concentration something that is noticeable by others, while a spell caster is maintaining a spell?
Concentration isn't meant to be conspicuous. I'd let a successful Wisdom (Insight) check notice it.
This one is pretty simple. Concentration doesn’t look like anything but as some have pointed out the way concentration works is a known thing in the world of D&D. A basic Arcana check of very low DC would inform an attacker that “someone” is concentrating to maintain the spell. They can then just logically use process of elimination and target each enemy, or make reasonable guesses, until they find the one who is concentrating.
An insight check to isolate “who” is concentrating is also an option per the rules, but just knowing about concentration should be a very low DC check.
I want to talk about something in this specific scenario that I don't think anyone brought up... I didn't read every post thoroughly but I was wondering...
Do the cultists have any reason to assume that the T-Rex was a humanoid that had been polymorphed? Because if the Cleric was Polymorphed in secret before rushing in, then as far as the cultists know that's just your pet T-Rex. Even if they manage to figure out that you seem to be concentrating on a spell, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll know that hitting you will turn the T-Rex into some guy.
Anyway, I'm also of the mindset that the act of concentrating shouldn't have any obvious outward signs. It would completely screw over Illusionists or other trickery-based magic. Creating the illusion of a dragon swooping down to scare off some bandits is kind of pointless if your character's eyes start glowing and they have to keep a finger pressed to their temple the whole time like they're Professor X.
I want to talk about something in this specific scenario that I don't think anyone brought up... I didn't read every post thoroughly but I was wondering...
Do the cultists have any reason to assume that the T-Rex was a humanoid that had been polymorphed? Because if the Cleric was Polymorphed in secret before rushing in, then as far as the cultists know that's just your pet T-Rex. Even if they manage to figure out that you seem to be concentrating on a spell, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll know that hitting you will turn the T-Rex into some guy.
Anyway, I'm also of the mindset that the act of concentrating shouldn't have any obvious outward signs. It would completely screw over Illusionists or other trickery-based magic. Creating the illusion of a dragon swooping down to scare off some bandits is kind of pointless if your character's eyes start glowing and they have to keep a finger pressed to their temple the whole time like they're Professor X.
I'm not talking about whether the act of concentration is visible. I'm talking about the con save it requires. They can't figure out that I'm the true caster by process of elimination unless dealing damage to a potential suspect actually eliminates their candidacy as a suspect. I'm of the mindset that they should be able to at least understand that I'm saving to maintain concentration, and even if they don't know what I'm concentrating on, it's probably worth breaking it. If they can't do that, then Polymorph is really too powerful for its level.
And yes, the cultists in battle did not witness my casting of polymorph.
This one is pretty simple. Concentration doesn’t look like anything but as some have pointed out the way concentration works is a known thing in the world of D&D...
A basic Arcana check of very low DC would inform an attacker that “someone” is concentrating to maintain the spell. They can then just logically use process of elimination and target each enemy, or make reasonable guesses, until they find the one who is concentrating.
An insight check to isolate “who” is concentrating is also an option per the rules, but just knowing about concentration should be a very low DC check.
If that's how you want to run it in your world, go for it.
Crawford was asked, "Is concentration something that is noticeable by others, while a spell caster is maintaining a spell?" he replied "Concentration isn't meant to be conspicuous. I'd let a successful Wisdom (Insight) check notice it."
Crawford's ruling is that, while it's not meant to be conspicuous, it can be noticed.
I want to talk about something in this specific scenario that I don't think anyone brought up... I didn't read every post thoroughly but I was wondering...
Do the cultists have any reason to assume that the T-Rex was a humanoid that had been polymorphed? Because if the Cleric was Polymorphed in secret before rushing in, then as far as the cultists know that's just your pet T-Rex. Even if they manage to figure out that you seem to be concentrating on a spell, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll know that hitting you will turn the T-Rex into some guy.
Anyway, I'm also of the mindset that the act of concentrating shouldn't have any obvious outward signs. It would completely screw over Illusionists or other trickery-based magic. Creating the illusion of a dragon swooping down to scare off some bandits is kind of pointless if your character's eyes start glowing and they have to keep a finger pressed to their temple the whole time like they're Professor X.
I'm not talking about whether the act of concentration is visible. I'm talking about the con save it requires. They can't figure out that I'm the true caster by process of elimination unless dealing damage to a potential suspect actually eliminates their candidacy as a suspect. I'm of the mindset that they should be able to at least understand that I'm saving to maintain concentration, and even if they don't know what I'm concentrating on, it's probably worth breaking it. If they can't do that, then...
... Polymorph is really too powerful for its level.
And yes, the cultists in battle did not witness my casting of polymorph.
I want to talk about something in this specific scenario that I don't think anyone brought up... I didn't read every post thoroughly but I was wondering...
Do the cultists have any reason to assume that the T-Rex was a humanoid that had been polymorphed? Because if the Cleric was Polymorphed in secret before rushing in, then as far as the cultists know that's just your pet T-Rex. Even if they manage to figure out that you seem to be concentrating on a spell, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll know that hitting you will turn the T-Rex into some guy.
Anyway, I'm also of the mindset that the act of concentrating shouldn't have any obvious outward signs. It would completely screw over Illusionists or other trickery-based magic. Creating the illusion of a dragon swooping down to scare off some bandits is kind of pointless if your character's eyes start glowing and they have to keep a finger pressed to their temple the whole time like they're Professor X.
I'm not talking about whether the act of concentration is visible. I'm talking about the con save it requires. They can't figure out that I'm the true caster by process of elimination unless dealing damage to a potential suspect actually eliminates their candidacy as a suspect. I'm of the mindset that they should be able to at least understand that I'm saving to maintain concentration, and even if they don't know what I'm concentrating on, it's probably worth breaking it. If they can't do that, then...
... Polymorph is really too powerful for its level.
And yes, the cultists in battle did not witness my casting of polymorph.
So is Fireball.
That's not a fair comparison. Check the t-rex's damage per turn.
I want to talk about something in this specific scenario that I don't think anyone brought up... I didn't read every post thoroughly but I was wondering...
Do the cultists have any reason to assume that the T-Rex was a humanoid that had been polymorphed? Because if the Cleric was Polymorphed in secret before rushing in, then as far as the cultists know that's just your pet T-Rex. Even if they manage to figure out that you seem to be concentrating on a spell, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll know that hitting you will turn the T-Rex into some guy.
Anyway, I'm also of the mindset that the act of concentrating shouldn't have any obvious outward signs. It would completely screw over Illusionists or other trickery-based magic. Creating the illusion of a dragon swooping down to scare off some bandits is kind of pointless if your character's eyes start glowing and they have to keep a finger pressed to their temple the whole time like they're Professor X.
I'm not talking about whether the act of concentration is visible. I'm talking about the con save it requires. They can't figure out that I'm the true caster by process of elimination unless dealing damage to a potential suspect actually eliminates their candidacy as a suspect. I'm of the mindset that they should be able to at least understand that I'm saving to maintain concentration, and even if they don't know what I'm concentrating on, it's probably worth breaking it. If they can't do that, then...
... Polymorph is really too powerful for its level.
And yes, the cultists in battle did not witness my casting of polymorph.
So is Fireball.
That's not a fair comparison. Check the t-rex's damage per turn.
I'd agree that polymorph is one of the most if not the most extreme example of the lack of balance in the game.
I also agree that concentration could be noticed via a successful Wisdom (Insight) check.
This doesn't stop polymorph from being overpowered though, in some cases, it might help.
It previously occurred to me that adventurers of around 7th level might have retirement options catered for by towns potentially needing protection. All that would then be needed would be a novice wizard and a scroll of polymorph. In case of attack, the 7th level character could swing out as a giant ape while the wizard drinks coffee in the basement.
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
Just a couple of clarifications. Keep in mind that this is a RAW discussion and you are welcome to run your game however you like.
...
The character's int is 2. Cats and Dogs are smarter than this creature.
Dogs? You have RAW Int stat for dogs? That's a pretty neat trick.
Unless a Mastiff is no longer a species of dog - then yes it is in the monster manual. I'm not sure how neat a trick it is though.
MASTIFF Medium beast, unligned Armor Class 12 Hit Points 5 (ld8 + 1) Speed 40 ft. STR 13 (+1) DEX 14 (+2) CON 12 (+1) INT 3 (-4) WIS 12 (+1) CHA 7 (-2)
Skills Perception +3Senses passive Perception 13 Languages - Challenge 1/8 (25 XP) Keen Hearing and Smell. The mastiff has advantage on Wisdom (Perceptio n) checks that rely o n hearing or smell. ACTIONS Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft ., o ne target. Hit: 4 (1d6 + 1) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 11 Strength saving throw o r be knocked prone. Mastiffs are impressive hounds prized by humanoids for their loyalty and keen senses, Mastiffs can be trained as guard dogs, hunting dogs, and war dogs. Halftings and other Small humanoids ride them as mounts.
However, there are two areas of DM discretion in the description of the spell.
1) What does INT mean? I usually interpret an INT of 2 which is less than that of a dog or cat - to mean that the creature has less cognitive ability than a dog or cat. You can certainly interpret it to mean an inability to acquire new information. However, in comparison to other creatures with an INT of 2, I would not tend to interpret it that way. The stat block of the character is REPLACED by the stat block of a T-rex - the character BECOMES a T-rex - I interpret this to mean that the character now has ALL the characteristics of a T-rex, both mental and physical. I think that position is supported by comparing to other creatures with INT of 2 and the statement that the character stat block is replaced with the beast stat block.
"Mental acuity, information recall, analytical skill" This is what the PHB says Int is. A DM can disagree if they really want to, but I thought you wanted a RAW chat?
Sure. You seemed to think that a polymorphed creature only lost its ability to learn new things apparently retaining their mental acuity, information recall and analytical skill. I disagreed since to me a creature with an int of 2 has significantly diminished mental acuity, information recall and analytical skill.
"Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, They just get real bad at taking in new information." ... ummm no .. not if their mental acuity, information recall and analytical skills are all diminished by having an int of 2. Lack of recall means they lose knowledge, lack of mental acuity means that they don't understand their current situation easily, lack of analytical skills means they have challenges figuring anything out.
2) What does alignment and personality - particularly "personality" mean? Alignment is pretty easy - if they are good they stay good, if they are evil they stay evil. However, personality I usually interpret to mean exactly that. "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." Are they typically happy, sad, melancholy, easy to anger, mean, petty, jealous, impatient. The definition of "personality" is what the character is LIKE - not what they know, not their memories, not their ability to reason at a high level.
This means they continue to be controlled by the same player. They're operating under the same guiding principles, same alignment, same personality. IE you don't force them to go on a rampage, because the spell doesn't tell you that is what the spell does.
Alignment and personality refers to the character, not the player. However, I never claimed they would go on a rampage (that would be someone else) though it isn't impossible.
So when I have a polymorphed beast in my games they can't understand language unless a druid casts a speak with animals spell. They retain alignment and personality so they won't attack their friends and they WILL attack anything that looks hostile to their friends (or if they are hungry and could use a snack). I'd allow an animal handling check from a friend to try to convince it execute a simple task (like bash down a door) but the complexity of the task it could understand is limited by its intelligence.
The spell doesn't say it strips them of knowledge they already possessed. You can homebrew such a restriction if you want, but we are, per your request, sticking to RAW discussion here I thought? Polymorph doesn't cause forgetfulness, or loss of memory. If a spell made you forget languages, not understand languages, or lose memories, it would say so.
I'm not sure why you say this. RAW it does say so. Polymorph explicitly states that the character is replaced by the stat block for the creature. That stat block states that a T-rex knows NO languages. None. If the character was an elf and they polymorph into a T-rex then they do NOT understand elvish because it isn't in the T-rex stat block. That is RAW. Anything else regarding languages is homebrew.
As for other knowledge - that is a DM call on how they want to run it and depends on whether the DM considers knowledge to be part of "personality". The dictionary definition of personality does NOT include the things the person knows - however, some DMs rule it that way.
In fact, there are spells that do exact that, and they do say so. feeblemind for example says "On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. The creature can't cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them."
This drops them all the way to one to knock out their capacity for understanding language, and even this level of low-Int they still recognize friends and protect them... ie not rampage against them.
What about memory? If a spell was going to delete their memories it'd also say so. modify memory says "While this charm lasts, you can affect the target's memory of an event that it experienced within the last 24 hours and that lasted no more than 10 minutes. You can permanently eliminate all memory of the event, allow the target to recall the event with perfect clarity and exacting detail, change its memory of the details of the event, or create a memory of some other event."
So if polymorph was supposed to modify someone's memory or understanding then it'd straight up say so. if it wiped out their capacity to understand language it would straight up say so.
The fact it doesn't say so means it doesn't do so, not by RAW.
All of that is supported by RAW, however, since what INT and personality mean are both a DM call - how polymorph runs in various people's games WILL differ a lot. However, either way, a T-rex is unable to understand any language (since there is no language in its stat block and the rules are very explicit) which leads me to conclude that the polymorphed T-rex does not retain knowledge in general including languages - they don't know that they were a PC in another life :)
General knowledge of past lived experience is NOT on your stat block. If you cause Polymorph to inflict a more severe version of a 5th level spell, modify memory in addition to its normal effects you are homebrewing. if you are additionally having them suffer additional effects similar to an 8th level spell, feeblemind you are again, homebrewing.
Umm no. Feeblemind sets the characters int to 1. Polymorph sets it to 2. Not much of a difference. Otherwise the polymorphed creature basically behaves like the beast they have been transformed into - no language - limited mental acuity, recall and analytical skills consistent with having an int of 2 - only retaining alignment and personality (world view). A character polymorphed into a T-rex doesn't retain the knowledge or analytical ability to coordinate their actions with the rest of the party or to prioritize targets. They won't run past the fighter to engage a spell caster unless the spell caster did something to provoke them. The T-rex won't know that the spirits flitting around are due to a cleric 15' away rather than the barbarian 5' away.
You are welcome to homebrew it all you like (or interpret an int of 2 to be less limiting than it is) but that is up to you :)
P.S. You keep saying that if Polymorph took away languages it would say so and it DOES. It says that the character is replaced by the stat block.
A T-rex knows NO languages. On the other hand a giant Elk understand common, elvish and sylvan and has an int of 7. When a character polymorphs into a beast, it stats are replaced by the monster stat block - THAT is what the spell says. It does not say that you lose languages because that depends on which beast you tranform into.
Do the cultists have any reason to assume that the T-Rex was a humanoid that had been polymorphed? Because if the Cleric was Polymorphed in secret before rushing in, then as far as the cultists know that's just your pet T-Rex. Even if they manage to figure out that you seem to be concentrating on a spell, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll know that hitting you will turn the T-Rex into some guy.
A caster would assume that it is probably magical in some way, so should be the target of a Dispel Magic.
Either it was conjured or is polymorph; both far more likely than a pet (unless the party have been VERY explicit in showing off their pet around in all the nearby settlements).
In a world full of magic and monsters, dragons, and even dinosaurs, as well as adventurers with beasts (and drakes) as companions, if the cultists didn’t see the spell being cast, why would they assume it was a spell at all and not a pet of some sort?
And although many settings have magic that is fairly common not all commoners, trades people, etc can use it so may not understand it enough to figure out the T-Rex was a polymorphed character. Now cultists would probably have some knowledge as they are probably not the same CR as a commoner but in the heat of battle I don’t think they can tell if someone is concentrating. An educated guess would be it’s probably not the raging Barbarian, but so many classes can cast spells (and in game terms I don’t think anyone in the game world thinks of each other as, ”oh, that must be a 7th level Ranger or Druid or wizard” that’s meta knowledge players have and not how the denizens of the game works see things)
You are welcome to homebrew it all you like (or interpret an int of 2 to be less limiting than it is) but that is up to you :)
RAW mechanically all a 2 Int does is give you a negative modifier on Int based skill checks and saves. If you've invented some additional penalty that's homebrewing.
PS. All Mastiffs are dogs, but not all dogs are Mastiffs. Would have been a neat trick if yo had a statblock for dogs because there isn't one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
(1) Tyrannosaurus Rex have an intelligence of 2, so while it may be able to recognize its friends, it would be unable to understand language and would have little grasp of what the party wants it to do. They are perfectly good for sowing chaos and terrorizing fleshy creatures, but could very easily get in the way of their own party.
This is entirely false. Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, not that they become a murderous sociopath that'll turn on their own team. They do not lose their known languages. They do not forget why they're there. They just get real bad at taking in new information.
Just a couple of clarifications. Keep in mind that this is a RAW discussion and you are welcome to run your game however you like.
...
The character's int is 2. Cats and Dogs are smarter than this creature.
Dogs? You have RAW Int stat for dogs? That's a pretty neat trick.
Unless a Mastiff is no longer a species of dog - then yes it is in the monster manual. I'm not sure how neat a trick it is though.
MASTIFF Medium beast, unligned Armor Class 12 Hit Points 5 (ld8 + 1) Speed 40 ft. STR 13 (+1) DEX 14 (+2) CON 12 (+1) INT 3 (-4) WIS 12 (+1) CHA 7 (-2)
Skills Perception +3Senses passive Perception 13 Languages - Challenge 1/8 (25 XP) Keen Hearing and Smell. The mastiff has advantage on Wisdom (Perceptio n) checks that rely o n hearing or smell. ACTIONS Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft ., o ne target. Hit: 4 (1d6 + 1) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 11 Strength saving throw o r be knocked prone. Mastiffs are impressive hounds prized by humanoids for their loyalty and keen senses, Mastiffs can be trained as guard dogs, hunting dogs, and war dogs. Halftings and other Small humanoids ride them as mounts.
However, there are two areas of DM discretion in the description of the spell.
1) What does INT mean? I usually interpret an INT of 2 which is less than that of a dog or cat - to mean that the creature has less cognitive ability than a dog or cat. You can certainly interpret it to mean an inability to acquire new information. However, in comparison to other creatures with an INT of 2, I would not tend to interpret it that way. The stat block of the character is REPLACED by the stat block of a T-rex - the character BECOMES a T-rex - I interpret this to mean that the character now has ALL the characteristics of a T-rex, both mental and physical. I think that position is supported by comparing to other creatures with INT of 2 and the statement that the character stat block is replaced with the beast stat block.
"Mental acuity, information recall, analytical skill" This is what the PHB says Int is. A DM can disagree if they really want to, but I thought you wanted a RAW chat?
Sure. You seemed to think that a polymorphed creature only lost its ability to learn new things apparently retaining their mental acuity, information recall and analytical skill. I disagreed since to me a creature with an int of 2 has significantly diminished mental acuity, information recall and analytical skill.
"Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, They just get real bad at taking in new information." ... ummm no .. not if their mental acuity, information recall and analytical skills are all diminished by having an int of 2. Lack of recall means they lose knowledge, lack of mental acuity means that they don't understand their current situation easily, lack of analytical skills means they have challenges figuring anything out.
2) What does alignment and personality - particularly "personality" mean? Alignment is pretty easy - if they are good they stay good, if they are evil they stay evil. However, personality I usually interpret to mean exactly that. "the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character." Are they typically happy, sad, melancholy, easy to anger, mean, petty, jealous, impatient. The definition of "personality" is what the character is LIKE - not what they know, not their memories, not their ability to reason at a high level.
This means they continue to be controlled by the same player. They're operating under the same guiding principles, same alignment, same personality. IE you don't force them to go on a rampage, because the spell doesn't tell you that is what the spell does.
Alignment and personality refers to the character, not the player. However, I never claimed they would go on a rampage (that would be someone else) though it isn't impossible.
So when I have a polymorphed beast in my games they can't understand language unless a druid casts a speak with animals spell. They retain alignment and personality so they won't attack their friends and they WILL attack anything that looks hostile to their friends (or if they are hungry and could use a snack). I'd allow an animal handling check from a friend to try to convince it execute a simple task (like bash down a door) but the complexity of the task it could understand is limited by its intelligence.
The spell doesn't say it strips them of knowledge they already possessed. You can homebrew such a restriction if you want, but we are, per your request, sticking to RAW discussion here I thought? ...
... Polymorph doesn't cause forgetfulness, or loss of memory. If a spell made you forget languages, not understand languages, or lose memories, it would say so.
I'm not sure why you say this. RAW it does say so. Polymorph explicitly states that the character is replaced by the stat block for the creature. That stat block states that a T-rex knows NO languages. None. If the character was an elf and they polymorph into a T-rex then they do NOT understand elvish because it isn't in the T-rex stat block. That is RAW. Anything else regarding languages is homebrew.
As for other knowledge - that is a DM call on how they want to run it and depends on whether the DM considers knowledge to be part of "personality". The dictionary definition of personality does NOT include the things the person knows - however, some DMs rule it that way.
Polymorph "The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast." Ravnodaus is taking game statistics to cover SDCIWCh and mental ability scores to be IWCh David42 considers game statistics to cover such information as: Skills Perception +4 Senses Passive Perception 14 Languages -- Challenge 8 (3,900 XP) Proficiency Bonus +3
In fact, there are spells that do exact that, and they do say so. feeblemind for example says "On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. The creature can't cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them."
This drops them all the way to one to knock out their capacity for understanding language, and even this level of low-Int they still recognize friends and protect them... ie not rampage against them.
What about memory? If a spell was going to delete their memories it'd also say so. modify memory says "While this charm lasts, you can affect the target's memory of an event that it experienced within the last 24 hours and that lasted no more than 10 minutes. You can permanently eliminate all memory of the event, allow the target to recall the event with perfect clarity and exacting detail, change its memory of the details of the event, or create a memory of some other event."
So if polymorph was supposed to modify someone's memory or understanding then it'd straight up say so. if it wiped out their capacity to understand language it would straight up say so.
The fact it doesn't say so means it doesn't do so, not by RAW.
All of that is supported by RAW, however, since what INT and personality mean are both a DM call - how polymorph runs in various people's games WILL differ a lot. However, either way, a T-rex is unable to understand any language (since there is no language in its stat block and the rules are very explicit) which leads me to conclude that the polymorphed T-rex does not retain knowledge in general including languages - they don't know that they were a PC in another life :)
General knowledge of past lived experience is NOT on your stat block. If you cause Polymorph to inflict a more severe version of a 5th level spell, modify memory in addition to its normal effects you are homebrewing. if you are additionally having them suffer additional effects similar to an 8th level spell, feeblemind you are again, homebrewing.
Umm no. Feeblemind sets the characters int to 1. Polymorph sets it to 2. Not much of a difference. Otherwise the polymorphed creature basically behaves like the beast they have been transformed into - no language - limited mental acuity, recall and analytical skills consistent with having an int of 2 - only retaining alignment and personality (world view). A character polymorphed into a T-rex doesn't retain the knowledge or analytical ability to coordinate their actions with the rest of the party or to prioritize targets. They won't run past the fighter to engage a spell caster unless the spell caster did something to provoke them. The T-rex won't know that the spirits flitting around are due to a cleric 15' away rather than the barbarian 5' away.
You are welcome to homebrew it all you like (or interpret an int of 2 to be less limiting than it is) but that is up to you :)
P.S. You keep saying that if Polymorph took away languages it would say so and it DOES. It says that the character is replaced by the stat block.
A T-rex knows NO languages. On the other hand a giant Elk understand common, elvish and sylvan and has an int of 7. When a character polymorphs into a beast, it stats are replaced by the monster stat block - THAT is what the spell says. It does not say that you lose languages because that depends on which beast you tranform into.
Feeblemind is a spell with a specific purpose that: "You blast the mind of a creature that you can see within range, attempting to shatter its intellect and personality." Polymorph is a spell with a specific purpose that: "This spell transforms a creature that you can see within range into a new form." It's not necessarily intended to be bad. Feeblemind shatters. Polymorph transforms.
Yes, with Polymorph, "The creature ... can't speak, ... or take any other action that requires ... speech." While I'd agree that a full level of comprehension ability would likely also diminish, there is nothing directly mentioned in the spell to say that the creature can't understand languages previously known.
RAW, a change in Intelligence might only relate to a change in "accuracy of recall". There's no reason to think that a great deal of information might still be there. It might just be a bit fuzzy.
In a world full of magic and monsters, dragons, and even dinosaurs, as well as adventurers with beasts (and drakes) as companions, if the cultists didn’t see the spell being cast, why would they assume it was a spell at all and not a pet of some sort?
And although many settings have magic that is fairly common not all commoners, trades people, etc can use it so may not understand it enough to figure out the T-Rex was a polymorphed character. Now cultists would probably have some knowledge as they are probably not the same CR as a commoner but in the heat of battle I don’t think they can tell if someone is concentrating. An educated guess would be it’s probably not the raging Barbarian, but so many classes can cast spells (and in game terms I don’t think anyone in the game world thinks of each other as, ”oh, that must be a 7th level Ranger or Druid or wizard” that’s meta knowledge players have and not how the denizens of the game works see things)
The average commoner (who is, by definition, average) is often a lot cleverer than the average character from a STR, DEX or CHR based class. And they live in a 5e world where magic and shit is going down. There's no reason to think they might not have good understandings of the interesting things that go on in their world.
If I saw a group of medium-sized humanoids accompanied by a t-rex and that t-rex was ferociously attacking just one set of non-t-rexs despite, itself, coming under significant, painful attack, I'd think that this was suspicious. How come our guards didn't warn us of this tall lizard coming in? What the heck, in this world of magic, is going on?
In a world full of magic and monsters, dragons, and even dinosaurs, as well as adventurers with beasts (and drakes) as companions, if the cultists didn’t see the spell being cast, why would they assume it was a spell at all and not a pet of some sort?
And although many settings have magic that is fairly common not all commoners, trades people, etc can use it so may not understand it enough to figure out the T-Rex was a polymorphed character. Now cultists would probably have some knowledge as they are probably not the same CR as a commoner but in the heat of battle I don’t think they can tell if someone is concentrating. An educated guess would be it’s probably not the raging Barbarian, but so many classes can cast spells (and in game terms I don’t think anyone in the game world thinks of each other as, ”oh, that must be a 7th level Ranger or Druid or wizard” that’s meta knowledge players have and not how the denizens of the game works see things)
The average commoner (who is, by definition, average) is often a lot cleverer than the average character from a STR, DEX or CHR based class. And they live in a 5e world where magic and shit is going down. There's no reason to think they might not have good understandings of the interesting things that go on in their world.
If I saw a group of medium-sized humanoids accompanied by a t-rex and that t-rex was ferociously attacking just one set of non-t-rexs despite, itself, coming under significant, painful attack, I'd think that this was suspicious. How come our guards didn't warn us of this tall lizard coming in? What the heck, in this world of magic, is going on?
You’re giving a lot of credit to commoners.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Could opponents notice whether a 17th level caster was maintaining a 1st level Faerie Fire?
Could opponents notice whether a 1st level caster was maintaining Faerie Fire or a 17th level caster was maintaining Mass or True Polymorph?
The whole topic could get complicated but, heck, the DM is in control and can adjudicate situations as relating to the world they want to build.
Dogs? You have RAW Int stat for dogs? That's a pretty neat trick.
"Mental acuity, information recall, analytical skill" This is what the PHB says Int is. A DM can disagree if they really want to, but I thought you wanted a RAW chat?
This means they continue to be controlled by the same player. They're operating under the same guiding principles, same alignment, same personality. IE you don't force them to go on a rampage, because the spell doesn't tell you that is what the spell does.
The spell doesn't say it strips them of knowledge they already possessed. You can homebrew such a restriction if you want, but we are, per your request, sticking to RAW discussion here I thought? Polymorph doesn't cause forgetfulness, or loss of memory. If a spell made you forget languages, not understand languages, or lose memories, it would say so.
In fact, there are spells that do exact that, and they do say so. feeblemind for example says "On a failed save, the creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. The creature can't cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them."
This drops them all the way to one to knock out their capacity for understanding language, and even this level of low-Int they still recognize friends and protect them... ie not rampage against them.
What about memory? If a spell was going to delete their memories it'd also say so. modify memory says "While this charm lasts, you can affect the target's memory of an event that it experienced within the last 24 hours and that lasted no more than 10 minutes. You can permanently eliminate all memory of the event, allow the target to recall the event with perfect clarity and exacting detail, change its memory of the details of the event, or create a memory of some other event."
So if polymorph was supposed to modify someone's memory or understanding then it'd straight up say so. if it wiped out their capacity to understand language it would straight up say so.
The fact it doesn't say so means it doesn't do so, not by RAW.
General knowledge of past lived experience is NOT on your stat block. If you cause Polymorph to inflict a more severe version of a 5th level spell, modify memory in addition to its normal effects you are homebrewing. if you are additionally having them suffer additional effects similar to an 8th level spell, feeblemind you are again, homebrewing.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A 5e t-rex is a lot thicker than I would have given them credit for.
A 5e Mastiff has int 3 which isn't much better.
But, with wis 12, the t-rex got street smarts which relates to perceptiveness and intuition.
Could a t-rex forget why they're there? I'd imagine that at least some of the details might get a bit foggy.
Would the t-rex forget who their friends were and lose the ability to work smartly around those that it respected? No.
A mastiff is a dog. Not sure if there are other regular dogs in the core rules.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Would a character polymorphed into a 3 int t-rex lose some language comprehension ability? Quite possibly.
Would they lose the capacity to understand language? There's nothing in RAW directly to that effect.
RAW, a change in Intelligence might only relate to a change in "accuracy of recall". There's no reason to think that the information wouldn't all be there. It might just get a bit fuzzy.
Critical Role's Caleb plays imo a flavourful t-rex. I'm curious to review with the current issue in mind.
There is nothing about this RAW, but this has been posed to Jeremy Crawford in the past which may help you work out a solution with your DM and party.
From: https://www.sageadvice.eu/is-concentration-noticeable/
This one is pretty simple. Concentration doesn’t look like anything but as some have pointed out the way concentration works is a known thing in the world of D&D. A basic Arcana check of very low DC would inform an attacker that “someone” is concentrating to maintain the spell. They can then just logically use process of elimination and target each enemy, or make reasonable guesses, until they find the one who is concentrating.
An insight check to isolate “who” is concentrating is also an option per the rules, but just knowing about concentration should be a very low DC check.
I want to talk about something in this specific scenario that I don't think anyone brought up... I didn't read every post thoroughly but I was wondering...
Do the cultists have any reason to assume that the T-Rex was a humanoid that had been polymorphed? Because if the Cleric was Polymorphed in secret before rushing in, then as far as the cultists know that's just your pet T-Rex. Even if they manage to figure out that you seem to be concentrating on a spell, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll know that hitting you will turn the T-Rex into some guy.
Anyway, I'm also of the mindset that the act of concentrating shouldn't have any obvious outward signs. It would completely screw over Illusionists or other trickery-based magic. Creating the illusion of a dragon swooping down to scare off some bandits is kind of pointless if your character's eyes start glowing and they have to keep a finger pressed to their temple the whole time like they're Professor X.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I'm not talking about whether the act of concentration is visible. I'm talking about the con save it requires. They can't figure out that I'm the true caster by process of elimination unless dealing damage to a potential suspect actually eliminates their candidacy as a suspect. I'm of the mindset that they should be able to at least understand that I'm saving to maintain concentration, and even if they don't know what I'm concentrating on, it's probably worth breaking it. If they can't do that, then Polymorph is really too powerful for its level.
And yes, the cultists in battle did not witness my casting of polymorph.
If that's how you want to run it in your world, go for it.
Crawford was asked, "Is concentration something that is noticeable by others, while a spell caster is maintaining a spell?"
he replied "Concentration isn't meant to be conspicuous. I'd let a successful Wisdom (Insight) check notice it."
Crawford's ruling is that, while it's not meant to be conspicuous, it can be noticed.
So is Fireball.
That's not a fair comparison. Check the t-rex's damage per turn.
I'd agree that polymorph is one of the most if not the most extreme example of the lack of balance in the game.
I also agree that concentration could be noticed via a successful Wisdom (Insight) check.
This doesn't stop polymorph from being overpowered though, in some cases, it might help.
It previously occurred to me that adventurers of around 7th level might have retirement options catered for by towns potentially needing protection. All that would then be needed would be a novice wizard and a scroll of polymorph. In case of attack, the 7th level character could swing out as a giant ape while the wizard drinks coffee in the basement.
Unless a Mastiff is no longer a species of dog - then yes it is in the monster manual. I'm not sure how neat a trick it is though.
MASTIFF
Medium beast, unligned
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 5 (ld8 + 1)
Speed 40 ft.
STR 13 (+1)
DEX 14 (+2)
CON 12 (+1)
INT 3 (-4)
WIS 12 (+1)
CHA 7 (-2)
Skills Perception +3Senses passive Perception 13
Languages -
Challenge 1/8 (25 XP)
Keen Hearing and Smell. The mastiff has advantage on
Wisdom (Perceptio n) checks that rely o n hearing or smell.
ACTIONS
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft ., o ne target. Hit: 4 (1d6 + 1) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it must
succeed on a DC 11 Strength saving throw o r be knocked prone.
Mastiffs are impressive hounds prized by humanoids for their loyalty and keen senses, Mastiffs can be trained as guard dogs, hunting dogs, and war dogs. Halftings and other Small humanoids ride them as mounts.
Sure. You seemed to think that a polymorphed creature only lost its ability to learn new things apparently retaining their mental acuity, information recall and analytical skill. I disagreed since to me a creature with an int of 2 has significantly diminished mental acuity, information recall and analytical skill.
"Having an Int of 2 means they're bad at solving puzzles, They just get real bad at taking in new information." ... ummm no .. not if their mental acuity, information recall and analytical skills are all diminished by having an int of 2. Lack of recall means they lose knowledge, lack of mental acuity means that they don't understand their current situation easily, lack of analytical skills means they have challenges figuring anything out.
Alignment and personality refers to the character, not the player. However, I never claimed they would go on a rampage (that would be someone else) though it isn't impossible.
I'm not sure why you say this. RAW it does say so. Polymorph explicitly states that the character is replaced by the stat block for the creature. That stat block states that a T-rex knows NO languages. None. If the character was an elf and they polymorph into a T-rex then they do NOT understand elvish because it isn't in the T-rex stat block. That is RAW. Anything else regarding languages is homebrew.
As for other knowledge - that is a DM call on how they want to run it and depends on whether the DM considers knowledge to be part of "personality". The dictionary definition of personality does NOT include the things the person knows - however, some DMs rule it that way.
Umm no. Feeblemind sets the characters int to 1. Polymorph sets it to 2. Not much of a difference. Otherwise the polymorphed creature basically behaves like the beast they have been transformed into - no language - limited mental acuity, recall and analytical skills consistent with having an int of 2 - only retaining alignment and personality (world view). A character polymorphed into a T-rex doesn't retain the knowledge or analytical ability to coordinate their actions with the rest of the party or to prioritize targets. They won't run past the fighter to engage a spell caster unless the spell caster did something to provoke them. The T-rex won't know that the spirits flitting around are due to a cleric 15' away rather than the barbarian 5' away.
You are welcome to homebrew it all you like (or interpret an int of 2 to be less limiting than it is) but that is up to you :)
P.S. You keep saying that if Polymorph took away languages it would say so and it DOES. It says that the character is replaced by the stat block.
A T-rex knows NO languages. On the other hand a giant Elk understand common, elvish and sylvan and has an int of 7. When a character polymorphs into a beast, it stats are replaced by the monster stat block - THAT is what the spell says. It does not say that you lose languages because that depends on which beast you tranform into.
A caster would assume that it is probably magical in some way, so should be the target of a Dispel Magic.
Either it was conjured or is polymorph; both far more likely than a pet (unless the party have been VERY explicit in showing off their pet around in all the nearby settlements).
In a world full of magic and monsters, dragons, and even dinosaurs, as well as adventurers with beasts (and drakes) as companions, if the cultists didn’t see the spell being cast, why would they assume it was a spell at all and not a pet of some sort?
And although many settings have magic that is fairly common not all commoners, trades people, etc can use it so may not understand it enough to figure out the T-Rex was a polymorphed character.
Now cultists would probably have some knowledge as they are probably not the same CR as a commoner but in the heat of battle I don’t think they can tell if someone is concentrating. An educated guess would be it’s probably not the raging Barbarian, but so many classes can cast spells (and in game terms I don’t think anyone in the game world thinks of each other as, ”oh, that must be a 7th level Ranger or Druid or wizard” that’s meta knowledge players have and not how the denizens of the game works see things)
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
RAW mechanically all a 2 Int does is give you a negative modifier on Int based skill checks and saves. If you've invented some additional penalty that's homebrewing.
PS. All Mastiffs are dogs, but not all dogs are Mastiffs. Would have been a neat trick if yo had a statblock for dogs because there isn't one.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Polymorph "The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast."
Ravnodaus is taking game statistics to cover SDCIWCh and mental ability scores to be IWCh
David42 considers game statistics to cover such information as:
Skills Perception +4
Senses Passive Perception 14
Languages --
Challenge 8 (3,900 XP)
Proficiency Bonus +3
Feeblemind is a spell with a specific purpose that: "You blast the mind of a creature that you can see within range, attempting to shatter its intellect and personality."
Polymorph is a spell with a specific purpose that: "This spell transforms a creature that you can see within range into a new form." It's not necessarily intended to be bad.
Feeblemind shatters. Polymorph transforms.
Yes, with Polymorph, "The creature ... can't speak, ... or take any other action that requires ... speech."
While I'd agree that a full level of comprehension ability would likely also diminish, there is nothing directly mentioned in the spell to say that the creature can't understand languages previously known.
RAW, a change in Intelligence might only relate to a change in "accuracy of recall". There's no reason to think that a great deal of information might still be there. It might just be a bit fuzzy.
The average commoner (who is, by definition, average) is often a lot cleverer than the average character from a STR, DEX or CHR based class. And they live in a 5e world where magic and shit is going down. There's no reason to think they might not have good understandings of the interesting things that go on in their world.
If I saw a group of medium-sized humanoids accompanied by a t-rex and that t-rex was ferociously attacking just one set of non-t-rexs despite, itself, coming under significant, painful attack, I'd think that this was suspicious. How come our guards didn't warn us of this tall lizard coming in? What the heck, in this world of magic, is going on?
You’re giving a lot of credit to commoners.