Moving silently is a stealth check. In order to be hidden you must be both UNSEEN and UNHEARD. Please reread the rules for hiding
You are conflating the definition of hidden with a need to use a hide action to achieve said state. If you are invisible, you are unseen. If you are not moving, you are likely unheard. A hide action lets you get to that state without need of a spell.
Moving silently is a stealth check but that does not mean it requires a hide action.
If you can simply make a stealth check whenever you want, without having to take the Hide action, what function does the action then have at all?
"When you take the Hide action, you make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in an attempt to hide, following the rules for hiding."
You cannot go unseen without magic or a hide action. Hide makes you both unseen and unheard. A stealth check lets you move unheard.
One can move quietly completely in the open. That would only be a stealth check and if anyone was looking that way, they would be seen even if not heard.
Of course you can be unseen without magic or a hide action. Move into a heavily obscured area or blind your foe. either will likely make you unseen. There are no rules for becoming unheard other than the rules for hiding or deafening your foe. If you want to hide and gain the benefits of hiding, you must take the Hide action. You generally don't get to decide when to make skill checks. But the Hide action is an action that specifically allows you to make a Stealth check in order to gain the benefits of being hidden.
The benefit of being invisible in the context of hiding is that you can take the Hide while standing out in the open, when you'd normally need to find some cover.
Rules for becoming unheard... think about that one for a moment.
Sound and light are very different.
Light is external. A light source radiates. The light bounces off objects and back to the viewer's eyes allowing them to see. To be unseen, you need to actively hide from the light sources, to ensure either that no light is reflected off you or that any light that is reflected off you either does not reach the eyes of a would be viewer or is transformed in such a way that you appear to blend in, technically seen but not noticed.
Sound, on the other hand, is not some external radiant source. Sound is produced by the actions of the being who could potentially be heard. You do not 'become unheard.' There is no rule to become unheard because it is not a thing. You are actively and constantly careful how you move, where and how you step. You do not make less noise by moving behind objects or trying to disguise your foot falls as something else. Unless you are naturally a heavy breather, when you are stationary, you are likely naturally very quiet. Automatically. Now if you move, that can normally be heard, but you start unheard until you do something that can be heard. And you stop being heard when you stop doing things that can be heard. Hence no rule to become unheard.
It would be, dare I say it, unheard of!
HIDING
The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding. When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.
You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and you give away your position if you make noise, such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase. An invisible creature can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, and it does have to stay quiet.
If you can try to hide, when your invisible, then you are not automatically hidden. Since being hidden is to be both Unseen and unheard, and you already unseen, and you must still roll for stealth to hide, and it says if you make noise you will be discovered, what do you think you are rolling stealth for, Stealthy thoughts? You must roll to move from you position without making noise so the opponents do not know your location.
"Walls, trees, creatures, and other obstacles can provide cover during combat, making a target more difficult to harm. A target can benefit from cover only when an attack or other effect originates on the opposite side of the cover."
Obstacle is not itself defined in 5e. So you can not make that claim. You can view it like that at your choice and leisure, because if you are the DM, you have final say in your campaign, but the term obstacle is not defined in 5e. You have physical cover and you have visual cover in the real world. Though the rules give you examples, it leaves what the DM considers an obstacle open ended. And while most people assume cover is something that blocks an attack, it never states that.
There is no such thing as visual cover. A cover is an obstacle that grant bonus to AC and saving throw and can prevent attacks entirely.
You A, can't target someone with a energy arrow strike if you can't see them, either in total cover or heavy obscurement, right? And B, Fog is considered a gas, not a solid. That's basic science. Obscurement and cover must BOTH be used when the Obscuring thing can potentially provide cover.
You can always target creature that you can't see wether invisible or in heavily obscured area, unless the attack or spell specifically target a creature you can see. That's why such thing grant disadvantage on the attack rolls. See Unseen Attackers and Targets for more details;
Unseen Attackers and Targets: Combatants often try to escape their foes’ notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness. When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll
DM: The enemy spellcaster disappears in the chaos of combat, only his constructs remain for you to fight!
Player: I shoot the invisible spellcaster, it is only at disadvantage because they're unseen. I roll a 17 and hit for 12 damage.
DM: No.. no they're invisible you don't even know they're here, let alone where to shoot if they were here.
Player: Naw, I attacked em at disadvantage and hit, sorry pal. Plaguescarred told me that's how it works.
That's how the rules say it works not me. In combat you are aware of the location of others unless they hide. Invisibility alone doesn't hide your location. The by the book way to do so is with the Hide action specifically.. It's been clarified by the devs as well. You are of course free to disagree or rule otherwise, but you don't have to cite me in post you make fun of it.
You A, can't target someone with a energy arrow strike if you can't see them, either in total cover or heavy obscurement, right? And B, Fog is considered a gas, not a solid. That's basic science. Obscurement and cover must BOTH be used when the Obscuring thing can potentially provide cover.
You can always target creature that you can't see wether invisible or in heavily obscured area, unless the attack or spell specifically target a creature you can see. That's why such thing grant disadvantage on the attack rolls. See Unseen Attackers and Targets for more details;
You are right, I meant hidden, sorry.
You can also always target and attack a hidden creature, or the location you think it occupy anyways, unless the attack or spell specifically target a creature you can see.
He disappeared in plain sight, therefore he can not hide. He is unseen only. If he moves, he leaves footsteps, makes noise etc. So you still know where he is, you just can't see him. He can not hide without cunning action, he already took an action to cast the spell Invisibility.
Next turn, he can now roll a stealth check to hide. Now you don't know where he is and must guess the location. Then attack at disadvantage. Missing does not reveal whether the caster is in the area you targeted or not.
Simple.
You don't know he leaves footsteps or makes noises. So how precisely do you know where he is?
Most people don't have echolocation. In fact, no people do.
The game assumes that a creature's location is known if it's not trying to hide its presence. That is the whole point of the hide action and the stealth skill. I am certain you know all the relevant rules on that topic.
This is absurd and obviously incorrect. You do not know the location of every single creature in existence that isn't taking the hide action.
Obviously not, but I did not think I'd have to spell out such inane things for you. Within the limits of your perception, a creature who is not trying to hide is not hidden. That's pretty straight forward. The Hide action exists for a reason, and that sole reason is for players to have agency over when their characters' are trying to hide.
@Kotah
The rules for the Hide action assumes combat/encounters, and I'd say it's very likely people will be heavily breathing or having a hard time keeping their metal armor from rattling. This is why it takes a whole action to hide. It is an active effort.
I'm not up for a long discussion about this, I just wanted to point out some things I thought you had missed. If we understand the rules differently, it is what it is :)
Moving silently is a stealth check. In order to be hidden you must be both UNSEEN and UNHEARD. Please reread the rules for hiding
You are conflating the definition of hidden with a need to use a hide action to achieve said state. If you are invisible, you are unseen. If you are not moving, you are likely unheard. A hide action lets you get to that state without need of a spell.
Moving silently is a stealth check but that does not mean it requires a hide action.
You are invisible you are unseen. If you want to hide, you must take the hide action and roll a stealth check. The check is to handle the noise part. There is no such thing as "likely unheard" in DnD. Being silent requires skill and dexterity. Hence your need to roll for it. If you do not move, and went invisible, you can still hide, You are rolling to stay very still, if you fail, you failed to stay very still. It means you are clumsy and not good at it.
If someone is already there, invisible and there are no clues that they are there, no reason to guess, they do not need to have hidden. Nor is sound normally a targeting sense. If they are somehow hovering in the air, even if you hear their breathing, you do not get to know their exact position unless they do something more specific to give it away (like attacking, dropping something, leaving footprints, etc).
That was not the scenario presented. A DM can rule differently but being hidden is the by the book way to conceal yourself as per the Devs. If an invisible creature wants to conceal its position, he just have to take the Hide action. Otherwise the creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves. Taking the Hide action will provide a score to contest against Passive Perception of others otherwise it would be undetectable.
@wax_eagle can you target a creature who is obscured but not hidden? More precisely, is hidden the only way to conceal position?
@JeremyECrawford Being hidden is the by-the-book way to conceal your position. The DM may decide that other methods can also conceal it.
@fritomuncher My PC uses the invisibility spell, does he auto hide or do I still need to take the hide action to not be targeted?
@JeremyECrawford The invisibility spell doesn't automatically hide you; you still make noise.
Also from the Sage Advice Compendium:
If I’m invisible and I become visible when I shoot an arrow at a target, does hiding again require an action? Without a special ability, hiding in combat requires the Hide action.
Obscurement does not apply to viewing out of said area. Scanning through a few forums. everyone agrees that at least with darkness, it is absolutely ridiculous to think that if you are hiding in a closet in darkness, and someone steps into the room the closet is in, and that room being dimly lit, that you inside the closet, can not see the person right in front of you just a few feet in the dimly lit area. So far, people that are saying you can not, because you are in darkness, and in a heavily obscured area (therefore your vision is "blocked"), when given this scenario are either saying "You attack from inside the closet at disadvantage because you can not see your target" or "The rule is broken". Neither makes sense.
Let's start there. I say, your interpretation is neither realistic, nor practical in game setting. My interpretation, which is that you use the rules for whatever obscurity level your target is in, not yourself, works perfectly in this case. In the case of a human rogue with no special sight, can see, from a hidden position, in the total darkness provided by the closet, into the dimly lit area, with disadvantage to perception checks when looking into that dimly lit area. That is the only rule in this scenario that applies (to the rogue), there are no disadvantages to attack OUT of darkness for the person inside darkness, being that at the moment, there are no cover issues or magical issues. The person in Dim light has disadvantage to attack the person in the closet, if said person (in the closet) is not hidden. If that person is hidden, the attacker outside of darkness, in the dimly lit area must also guess the hidden persons location (unless the closet is only one square big, and the character knows this). This is a more realistic approach, as anyone who has ever hid in a closet playing hide-n-go-seek knows. Or anyone going camping at night knows.
What say you to this.
What i say is everyone will most likely play it as you do. But that the rules as they are written, because they make no distinction for darkess and other heavily obscured area, being in a closet would block your vision to the light. You would not be effectively blinded when looking into the lightly obscured area of dim light. but would not see it with your vision blocked by the heavily obscured area you're in. Just like your vision would be blocked if you where in opaque fog for exemple.
If it didn't block vision, then even opaque fog would let you side outside or past it, but by mixing them all with darkness, it creates a problem that the errata never really fixed.
You A, can't target someone with a energy arrow strike if you can't see them, either in total cover or heavy obscurement, right? And B, Fog is considered a gas, not a solid. That's basic science. Obscurement and cover must BOTH be used when the Obscuring thing can potentially provide cover.
You can always target creature that you can't see wether invisible or in heavily obscured area, unless the attack or spell specifically target a creature you can see. That's why such thing grant disadvantage on the attack rolls. See Unseen Attackers and Targets for more details;
Unseen Attackers and Targets: Combatants often try to escape their foes’ notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness. When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll
DM: The enemy spellcaster disappears in the chaos of combat, only his constructs remain for you to fight!
Player: I shoot the invisible spellcaster, it is only at disadvantage because they're unseen. I roll a 17 and hit for 12 damage.
DM: No.. no they're invisible you don't even know they're here, let alone where to shoot if they were here.
Player: Naw, I attacked em at disadvantage and hit, sorry pal. Plaguescarred told me that's how it works.
That's how the rules say it works not me. In combat you are aware of the location of others unless they hide. Invisibility alone doesn't hide your location. The by the book way to do so is with the Hide action specifically.. It's been clarified by the devs as well. You are of course free to disagree or rule otherwise, but you don't have to cite me in post you make fun of it.
That isn't how the rules says it works. You are saying that is how it works. If the rules said that is how it works, you'd find that in a quote of the rules.
The DM determines if you are aware of a creature's location or not. You do not automatically know where every creature in existence is just because you're in combat and they're not actively hiding from you. This idea you got in your head is absurd.
If you can't reasonably detect them: you don't know where they are. No roll needed. You're not a bat, you don't have echolocation. So, unless you have blindsight or see invisibility you're not going to know where an invisible creature is,not unless they do something to give away their location, or you use an action to attempt to detect them. So either you spend an action looking for them or they use an action/movement/etc and give away their location. Otherwise they're just... invisible. And people can't see invisible things, dude.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You A, can't target someone with a energy arrow strike if you can't see them, either in total cover or heavy obscurement, right? And B, Fog is considered a gas, not a solid. That's basic science. Obscurement and cover must BOTH be used when the Obscuring thing can potentially provide cover.
You can always target creature that you can't see wether invisible or in heavily obscured area, unless the attack or spell specifically target a creature you can see. That's why such thing grant disadvantage on the attack rolls. See Unseen Attackers and Targets for more details;
Unseen Attackers and Targets: Combatants often try to escape their foes’ notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness. When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll
DM: The enemy spellcaster disappears in the chaos of combat, only his constructs remain for you to fight!
Player: I shoot the invisible spellcaster, it is only at disadvantage because they're unseen. I roll a 17 and hit for 12 damage.
DM: No.. no they're invisible you don't even know they're here, let alone where to shoot if they were here.
Player: Naw, I attacked em at disadvantage and hit, sorry pal. Plaguescarred told me that's how it works.
That's how the rules say it works not me. In combat you are aware of the location of others unless they hide. Invisibility alone doesn't hide your location. The by the book way to do so is with the Hide action specifically.. It's been clarified by the devs as well. You are of course free to disagree or rule otherwise, but you don't have to cite me in post you make fun of it.
That isn't how the rules says it works. You are saying that is how it works. If the rules said that is how it works, you'd find that in a quote of the rules.
The DM determines if you are aware of a creature's location or not. You do not automatically know where every creature in existence is just because you're in combat and they're not actively hiding from you. This idea you got in your head is absurd.
If you can't reasonably detect them: you don't know where they are. No roll needed. You're not a bat, you don't have echolocation. So, unless you have blindsight or see invisibility you're not going to know where an invisible creature is,not unless they do something to give away their location, or you use an action to attempt to detect them. So either you spend an action looking for them or they use an action/movement/etc and give away their location. Otherwise they're just... invisible. And people can't see invisible things, dude.
Again being invisible only makes you unseen. See condition for what it does. That's the lead developper that says it too. It is not about knowing where everyone is in the world, but around you in an encounter at least..
Also the Invisible condition also says it. It doesn't say you automatically hide, but the hiding rules say an invisible creature can always try since it meet the condition to attempt to. You are the one saying it can automatically hide so quote a rule that says so because i never seen one, nor the the Dev said so, but the contrary.
Invisible: The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves
Hiding: An invisible creature can’t be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet. In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you.
The English there is loopy. Hidden is a state, not an action. Being hidden is the condition of being unseen and unheard.
As for the Invisibility questions, the first does not say you have to hide to move quietly. The second says that hiding requires an action AND is after an action that revealed your position and likely ended the spell. "The spell ends for a target that attacks or casts a spell." You became visible from attacking and the spell ended. If it was greater invis, they would not have become visible.
The question has nothing to do with the Invisibility spell. I don't think there would be a question of it was about a game element that end the invisible condition upon attacking some don't and the condition itself doesn't end after attacking. All the official ruling does is reiterate hiding in combat requires the Hide action. Meaning it's not automatic, even for invisible creature.
Yes you are not seen when invisible, so you escape people's notice at least visually speaking. Same when being heavily obscured in darkness, opaque fog etc and (dis)advantage is always applicable.
But you still make noise and leave tracks unless you take the Hide action to conceal your position. This is the by the book way to do so and normally requires an action. A DM can always decide to rule otherwise if they want unseen to also be silent and automatically hidden without the use of the Hide action of course.
Another Devs tweet on it
@quadhund But is the invisible person considered hidden as a result of casting invisibility?
@JeremyECrawford Invisible = unseen. Hidden = unseen and unheard.
In fact wether you move or not is irrelevant but if you do, you likely to even make your location more obvious by making noise or leaving tracks. What matter is if you take the Hide action and make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in the end.
It's the contrary, the Invisible condition says the creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves, so imagine those not even invisible but seen! You can make Dexterity (Stealth) check to move silently, i'd imagine an invisible creature's Hide action would be for that since it doesn't need to do so to become unseen. And making Stealth check to move silently shouldn't make you hidden, only move silently. Hiding require the action, also confirmed by Devs
@alessandro_d_t I am unseen, do I need hide action to move silently in combat or stealth check is included in movement?
@mikemearls still need to use the action
I mean just listen to the Devs and read what they say it is more than clear that being unseen doesn't automatically give you the benefit of being unheard for free. A DM can rule it that way if he want, but he'd make heavily obscured area AoE effect more powerful than they are, and would weaken the Hiding rules in general. Hiding is not free.
It's the contrary, the Invisible condition says the creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves, so imagine those not even invisible but seen! You can make Dexterity (Stealth) check to move silently, i'd imagine an invisible creature's Hide action would be for that since it doesn't need to do so to become unseen. And making Stealth check to move silently shouldn't make you hidden, only move silently. Hiding require the action, also confirmed by Devs
@alessandro_d_t I am unseen, do I need hide action to move silently in combat or stealth check is included in movement?
@mikemearls still need to use the action
I mean just listen to the Devs and read what they say it is more than clear that being unseen doesn't automatically give you the benefit of being unheard for free. A DM can rule it that way if he want, but he'd make heavily obscured area AoE effect more powerful than they are, and would weaken the Hiding rules in general. Hiding is not free.
A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
This can be read and interpreted in one of two ways. The first is if the subject isn't heavily obscured then the observer can clearly see it. The second is the observer will suffer no matter what because they cannot see clearly. And it's ultimately up to the DM to adjudicate.
If you're standing in darkness, then you may be able to see clearly something standing under a street lamp.
If you're in heavy fog, thick as pea soup, then you can't really see anything at all.
In fact wether you move or not is irrelevant but if you do, you likely to even make your location more obvious by making noise or leaving tracks. What matter is if you take the Hide action and make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in the end.
Where in the rules does it say that anyone has some sort of weapons lock anyone whose position they have known even for an instant? You are reading that in to the rules. Whether you move of not is irrelevant implies that no matter what you do, even if you go behind a solid object, regardless of overall noise conditions even if you go 60' or so straight up somehow, they somehow know precisely where you are unless you take a hide action, that they automatically hear you. I am not saying it is automatic that they do not hear you, You are insisting that it is automatic that they do and that they know precisely where you are, period.
As already mentioned, you are only hidden if you attempt to hide (in combat this is done using the Hide). Consider the below rule in a scenario where you have not taken the Hide action:
Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score...
This rule states that a creature will notice you if their passive perception score is higher that the Stealth check you made when you hid. If you did not take the Hide action, you never hid, and never made a stealth check. Any creature's passive perception will therefore be higher than the 'nothing' you rolled. Most creatures would thus be aware of your location if you're within the limits of their perception and they don't automatically fail perception checks, are blinded and deafened etc.
It's the contrary, the Invisible condition says the creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves, so imagine those not even invisible but seen! You can make Dexterity (Stealth) check to move silently, i'd imagine an invisible creature's Hide action would be for that since it doesn't need to do so to become unseen. And making Stealth check to move silently shouldn't make you hidden, only move silently. Hiding require the action, also confirmed by Devs
@alessandro_d_t I am unseen, do I need hide action to move silently in combat or stealth check is included in movement?
@mikemearls still need to use the action
I mean just listen to the Devs and read what they say it is more than clear that being unseen doesn't automatically give you the benefit of being unheard for free. A DM can rule it that way if he want, but he'd make heavily obscured area AoE effect more powerful than they are, and would weaken the Hiding rules in general. Hiding is not free.
Again, I have NEVER insisted on it giving being unheard for free. Not once in these 10 pages. I have said that it does not take an action to attempt. That is not the same thing.
You still have a stealth vs perception contest.
And invisibility should weaken hiding. It needs concentration and requires a spell slot, not to mention the ability to cast. And drops on attacking, needing another slot to renew.
Someone in the heavily obscured area likely cannot see out. It is only around the edges that they can.
And this is crippling to Rogues, since it eats their bonus action simply to stay hidden while moving. Every round they move.
Invisibility does grant a benefit when attempting to hide: You can attempt to hide while out in the open, where you'd normally have to find some sort of cover. It also allows you to move close to your target and strike them from melee range while hidden.
The rules for hiding affects rogues much less than other classes as it only takes a bonus action for them to hide, not an action as it does for all other classes.
You don't have to make a stealth check every time you move. You make it once, and your check lasts until you are discovered or actively stop hiding.
Again, I have NEVER insisted on it giving being unheard for free. Not once in these 10 pages. I have said that it does not take an action to attempt. That is not the same thing.
If you are getting something without paying for it its free loll. You're discussing becoming hidden without taking an action to hide. Very few have the ability to do so even as an bonus action, and none that i know of with no action required.
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HIDING
The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding. When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check's total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.
You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly, and you give away your position if you make noise, such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase. An invisible creature can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, and it does have to stay quiet.
If you can try to hide, when your invisible, then you are not automatically hidden. Since being hidden is to be both Unseen and unheard, and you already unseen, and you must still roll for stealth to hide, and it says if you make noise you will be discovered, what do you think you are rolling stealth for, Stealthy thoughts? You must roll to move from you position without making noise so the opponents do not know your location.
There is no such thing as visual cover. A cover is an obstacle that grant bonus to AC and saving throw and can prevent attacks entirely.
That's how the rules say it works not me. In combat you are aware of the location of others unless they hide. Invisibility alone doesn't hide your location. The by the book way to do so is with the Hide action specifically.. It's been clarified by the devs as well. You are of course free to disagree or rule otherwise, but you don't have to cite me in post you make fun of it.
You can also always target and attack a hidden creature, or the location you think it occupy anyways, unless the attack or spell specifically target a creature you can see.
Yes you are right, they are different. Not very different, but different
Obviously not, but I did not think I'd have to spell out such inane things for you. Within the limits of your perception, a creature who is not trying to hide is not hidden. That's pretty straight forward. The Hide action exists for a reason, and that sole reason is for players to have agency over when their characters' are trying to hide.
@Kotah
The rules for the Hide action assumes combat/encounters, and I'd say it's very likely people will be heavily breathing or having a hard time keeping their metal armor from rattling. This is why it takes a whole action to hide. It is an active effort.
I'm not up for a long discussion about this, I just wanted to point out some things I thought you had missed. If we understand the rules differently, it is what it is :)
You are invisible you are unseen. If you want to hide, you must take the hide action and roll a stealth check. The check is to handle the noise part. There is no such thing as "likely unheard" in DnD. Being silent requires skill and dexterity. Hence your need to roll for it. If you do not move, and went invisible, you can still hide, You are rolling to stay very still, if you fail, you failed to stay very still. It means you are clumsy and not good at it.
That was not the scenario presented. A DM can rule differently but being hidden is the by the book way to conceal yourself as per the Devs. If an invisible creature wants to conceal its position, he just have to take the Hide action. Otherwise the creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves. Taking the Hide action will provide a score to contest against Passive Perception of others otherwise it would be undetectable.
Also from the Sage Advice Compendium:
What i say is everyone will most likely play it as you do. But that the rules as they are written, because they make no distinction for darkess and other heavily obscured area, being in a closet would block your vision to the light. You would not be effectively blinded when looking into the lightly obscured area of dim light. but would not see it with your vision blocked by the heavily obscured area you're in. Just like your vision would be blocked if you where in opaque fog for exemple.
If it didn't block vision, then even opaque fog would let you side outside or past it, but by mixing them all with darkness, it creates a problem that the errata never really fixed.
That isn't how the rules says it works. You are saying that is how it works. If the rules said that is how it works, you'd find that in a quote of the rules.
The DM determines if you are aware of a creature's location or not. You do not automatically know where every creature in existence is just because you're in combat and they're not actively hiding from you. This idea you got in your head is absurd.
If you can't reasonably detect them: you don't know where they are. No roll needed. You're not a bat, you don't have echolocation. So, unless you have blindsight or see invisibility you're not going to know where an invisible creature is, not unless they do something to give away their location, or you use an action to attempt to detect them. So either you spend an action looking for them or they use an action/movement/etc and give away their location. Otherwise they're just... invisible. And people can't see invisible things, dude.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Again being invisible only makes you unseen. See condition for what it does. That's the lead developper that says it too. It is not about knowing where everyone is in the world, but around you in an encounter at least..
Also the Invisible condition also says it. It doesn't say you automatically hide, but the hiding rules say an invisible creature can always try since it meet the condition to attempt to. You are the one saying it can automatically hide so quote a rule that says so because i never seen one, nor the the Dev said so, but the contrary.
The question has nothing to do with the Invisibility spell. I don't think there would be a question of it was about a game element that end the invisible condition upon attacking some don't and the condition itself doesn't end after attacking. All the official ruling does is reiterate hiding in combat requires the Hide action. Meaning it's not automatic, even for invisible creature.
Yes you are not seen when invisible, so you escape people's notice at least visually speaking. Same when being heavily obscured in darkness, opaque fog etc and (dis)advantage is always applicable.
But you still make noise and leave tracks unless you take the Hide action to conceal your position. This is the by the book way to do so and normally requires an action. A DM can always decide to rule otherwise if they want unseen to also be silent and automatically hidden without the use of the Hide action of course.
Another Devs tweet on it
In fact wether you move or not is irrelevant but if you do, you likely to even make your location more obvious by making noise or leaving tracks. What matter is if you take the Hide action and make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in the end.
The Devs also discuss it in this Dragon Talk Sage Advice on Conditions (33:50) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWz6hfU3QTs
It's the contrary, the Invisible condition says the creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves, so imagine those not even invisible but seen! You can make Dexterity (Stealth) check to move silently, i'd imagine an invisible creature's Hide action would be for that since it doesn't need to do so to become unseen. And making Stealth check to move silently shouldn't make you hidden, only move silently. Hiding require the action, also confirmed by Devs
I mean just listen to the Devs and read what they say it is more than clear that being unseen doesn't automatically give you the benefit of being unheard for free. A DM can rule it that way if he want, but he'd make heavily obscured area AoE effect more powerful than they are, and would weaken the Hiding rules in general. Hiding is not free.
Agreed
This can be read and interpreted in one of two ways. The first is if the subject isn't heavily obscured then the observer can clearly see it. The second is the observer will suffer no matter what because they cannot see clearly. And it's ultimately up to the DM to adjudicate.
If you're standing in darkness, then you may be able to see clearly something standing under a street lamp.
If you're in heavy fog, thick as pea soup, then you can't really see anything at all.
The rules are guidance; not exacting.
As already mentioned, you are only hidden if you attempt to hide (in combat this is done using the Hide). Consider the below rule in a scenario where you have not taken the Hide action:
This rule states that a creature will notice you if their passive perception score is higher that the Stealth check you made when you hid. If you did not take the Hide action, you never hid, and never made a stealth check. Any creature's passive perception will therefore be higher than the 'nothing' you rolled. Most creatures would thus be aware of your location if you're within the limits of their perception and they don't automatically fail perception checks, are blinded and deafened etc.
Invisibility does grant a benefit when attempting to hide: You can attempt to hide while out in the open, where you'd normally have to find some sort of cover. It also allows you to move close to your target and strike them from melee range while hidden.
The rules for hiding affects rogues much less than other classes as it only takes a bonus action for them to hide, not an action as it does for all other classes.
You don't have to make a stealth check every time you move. You make it once, and your check lasts until you are discovered or actively stop hiding.
If you are getting something without paying for it its free loll. You're discussing becoming hidden without taking an action to hide. Very few have the ability to do so even as an bonus action, and none that i know of with no action required.