Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell. Similarly, a spellcasting focus, such as a holy symbol, can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus.
How does this work or interact with the feat exactly, when the feat allows you to cast any spell with a focus that you gained from outside a class and doesn't differentiate between class for the spell you cast but only requires that it use Intelligence as its spellcasting ability?
Could this somehow, possibly allow you to use your non-class focus to cast any spell but still access features you have from either class, perhaps even the Infuse Item feature as you could put an infusion into this non-class focus?
These seem like important questions to me.
Actually, literally, it says that you can only use a focus that is associated with a class, so you can't use one that isn't associated with a class to cast any of your spells. "a spellcasting focus... can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus"
I certainly don't think that is the intention, but that is a discussion beyond the text of the rule.
You are right, I don't need to use the focus to cast the spell, but I can use the focus to cast the spell because the feat allows me to if I so choose.
It's a choice the feat provides me. I could cast it without the focus because Magic Missile still only needs V,S. But I could also choose to cast it with the focus because that's a choice the feat allows me.
And you are right again, if I am within the area of effect of a silence spell I can't provide the V and if my hands are bound I can't provide the S.
But if I am not silenced by any means, and my arms and hands are free to use (not tied or bound) and I can provide the V and the S then I can use the Alchemist's Supplies to cast Magic Missile so long as it uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
In my example I had one hand free to supply the S component and the other hand was holding the Alchemist's Supplies.
(Notice how I'm a stickler for following the rules. Always careful to not add my two cents to the conversation and join the RAI discussion. I simply quote the specific beats general rule and continue to stay within the confines of RAW. Most of what I posted has been copy/pasted from the rulebook, other times I have shortened it here or there for brevity's sake.)
No where does the feat say it replaces other casting components it just says you can use a tool as a casting focus instead of a normal casting focus for a material component for int based spells.
So no the feat doesn't let you just cast spells with a spork without the verbal and somatic component. https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/magic-missile Still requires a verbal and somatic component. My spork is useless in cast magic missile since it doesn't need material component.
RAW all that feat does it makes it so you can use a tool for focus as a focus would normally be used. It does not remove the other requirements. You still cast the spell as per normal it just replaces ONE need. And using magic missile as you example, it doesn't NEED a material component hence your spork does nothing for you in that spell. You do need a free hand and the ability top speak though.
No where below does it remove the other requirements and that is where your making this mistake. It just changes the fact that you would normally be using an arcane focus or a component pouch for int based spells that require a M component. It doesn't change ANYTHING else.
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
In your example "In my example I had one hand free to supply the S component and the other hand was holding the Alchemist's Supplies."
If you were in a silence spell with your hand free and your Alchemist supplies in your other hand you still cant cast magic missile cause you cant talk.
For clarification I am not suggesting that the focus replace or change any of the components needed to cast the spell.
If V and/or S is required I plan on meeting those requirements above and beyond anything else the spell may or may not require.
I'm just curious if you can also use the focus in tandem with any required V and/or S component spells when you cast them. I cannot find a rule that explicitly prohibits this, neither can I find one that allows it. At least not by RAW, maybe, perhaps my reluctance to include RAI is working against me as that may allow for rules that support my idea.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
There is only one rule that tells us what a focus does. You have routinely ignored it throughout this thread. It is the material component spellcasting rule. A focus's only use is to replace the material components of a spell that has them. That is the only way that you can use a focus to cast a spell. If you are not using a focus to fulfill the M requirement of a spell you are casting, you aren't using a focus to cast that spell. It is tautological.
Again, your interpretation doesn't actually let you cast any M spells using a focus. The text that lets you use a focus to replace material components is in a rule that you keep saying isn't relevant anymore.
For clarification I am not suggesting that the focus replace or change any of the components needed to cast the spell.
If V and/or S is required I plan on meeting those requirements above and beyond anything else the spell may or may not require.
I'm just curious if you can also use the focus in tandem with any required V and/or S component spells when you cast them. I cannot find a rule that explicitly prohibits this, neither can I find one that allows it. At least not by RAW, maybe, perhaps my reluctance to include RAI is working against me as that may allow for rules that support my idea.
No unless it NEEDs a material component you don't even need to have your focus out. RAW using magic missiles, I could be a prisoner without any of my gear and still cast magic missile since i need to just talk and wave my hands around. If I had my arcane spork in my hand my other hand was missing I would have to drop the arcane spork to cast magic missile since I need a free hand.
I understand there is no NEED to have or use a focus to cast a spell without a M component. But what if I WANT to anyway?
In reading that third bullet point I see an interpretation that is specific to that feat of using a focus to cast a spell.
And the general rule that I usually follow of using a focus to cast a spell with a M component, I don't think it still applies if it prevents the specific choices the feat allows you to make.
Although the focus isn't needed and doesn't appear to serve any function since there is no M component in the spell, the feat seems to suggest you can still use the focus to cast the spell. If you make the choices of Alchemist's Supplies and Magic Missile which is specific to this unique situation why should a general rule be used over the specific example I have shown?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
The only rule that tells us how to use a focus is the one that you routinely ignore. Same as before.
If the rules don't say you can do something the assumption is that you cannot. There is no way to use a focus that is different than the single way described by the M rules.
Oh, and by the way, if you are ignoring that M rule, then you can't even use a focus for its intended use -- to replace material components, so it doesn't do anything for any spell.
I understand there is no NEED to have or use a focus to cast a spell without a M component. But what if I WANT to anyway?
In reading that third bullet point I see an interpretation that is specific to that feat of using a focus to cast a spell.
And the general rule that I usually follow of using a focus to cast a spell with a M component, I don't think it still applies if it prevents the specific choices the feat allows you to make.
Although the focus isn't needed and doesn't appear to serve any function since there is no M component in the spell, the feat seems to suggest you can still use the focus to cast the spell. If you make the choices of Alchemist's Supplies and Magic Missile which is specific to this unique situation why should a general rule be used over the specific example I have shown?
Again IF it needs a focus. It doesn't change the other requirements for the spell. And absolutely you want to hold forth your arcane spork while you cast a spell sure. but it doesn't do anything for the spell casting. Its like if i was going to cook a steak and I had a bucket of water one hand and a spatula in the other. The spatula gets used to flip[ the steak the bucket of water does nothing. In fact I'm wasting energy holding the bucket of water. So yes roleplay reasons you can hold your focus out. But it doesn't do anything to help you with casting non-Material component spells. All the feat does is REPLACES what you can use for a material component not how the spell casting works.
The exact wording of the feat keeps tripping me up.
It suggests you CAN use your focus to cast ANY spell that requires INT as its spellcasting ability. This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
The way you guys are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast spells that have M as a component and use INT as its spellcasting focus.
Just going by RAW I don't see that red part in the original text of the third bullet point, I will post the third bullet point below in blue for easy comparison:
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
Again doesnt remove the other parts only says instead of a arcane focus I can use a tool as my focus. I still NEED the verbal and somatic IF the spell has it. RAW it does no remove V or S unlike in subtle spell where it says you can cast with out those.
Subtle Spell
When you cast a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without any somatic or verbal components.
The way you guys are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast spells that have M as a component and use INT as its spellcasting focus.
You use material component pouch or spellcasting focus for spells you cast that has material component. If material isn't required to cast the spell, none is actually used in the spellcasting.
The reason you're confused, Brian_Avery, is that you're inventing a new meaning for the phrase "as a spellcasting focus." To use something as a spellcasting focus is simply to replace a spell's material components with that thing. Here's the rules text to support me:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell.
The only other rules defining what a spellcasting focus is, or how it's used, are pieces of text that directly just tell you to go back and reference this rule here. As an example:
Arcane Focus. An arcane focus is a special item — an orb, a crystal, a rod, a specially constructed staff, a wand-like length of wood, or some similar item — designed to channel the power of arcane spells. A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in chapter 10.
And of course that link, (chapter 10) is the rules I posted first. They create a loop of links, each directing you back to the other. In other words, there isn't anything else to define what a focus is, how it's used, or what you can do with it. So let's use that definition, then.
The focus is used in place of the components for a spell. Surely, you could use it for other purposes -- it might make a nice paperweight, for example. But if you aren't using it in place of the components specified for a spell, then you aren't using it as a spellcasting focus.
I feel like I'm invisible here. Any chance of getting a response to any of the points below? Or do you only want to go around in circles forever? I really feel this is your way out, your way to finally end this preposterous thread, but if you don't want to ever stop making the exact same arguments against the exact same arguments, then you can just ignore me again. Though, in doing so, you'd be signaling to everyone that you don't intend to ever stop making the exact same arguments against the exact same arguments, and if you did that, they might be inclined to leave.
We know what the wording looks like for a feature that allows you to use a focus for spells that otherwise wouldn't involve one. It's the wording used for the Tools Required feature from the Artificer class. Which was published in the very same book as the Artificer Initiate feat. And is from where the feat draws its thematic and mechanical inspiration. If the feat was meant to have this same functionality, it would use the same wording. The only reason it would not have that wording, if it were meant to have that functionality, would be that someone made a mistake. Do you agree?
And we know that Wizards of the Coast issues errata when they discover a mistake. There has been an errata for the book in question. It didn't include any alteration to the Artificer Initiate feat. So now we must conclude that the only reason the feat would not share the wording with the Tools Required feature, if it were meant to share that functionality, would be that someone made a mistake AND no one caught that mistake. Yes?
With the right folding pattern, you can use a folded up newspaper as a hat. You still need to put it on your head, though. Otherwise you're not using it as a hat, you're just holding it. With the right feat, you can use tools as a focus. You still need to replace an existing material component, though. Otherwise you're not using it as a focus, you're just holding it.
That's sounds like an interesting conversation around RAI.
Perhaps you might want to start your own thread discussing this. This is my thread and I want to discuss the RAW surrounding the weird and strange exception I've discovered is possible through the third bullet point of the Artificer Initiate feat.
What exactly is there to discuss, aside from the question of whether this exception you claim to have discovered is legitimate? In other words, if everyone stopped arguing with you, what more would there be to say in this thread?
The exact wording of the feat keeps tripping me up.
It suggests you CAN use your focus to cast ANY spell that requires INT as its spellcasting ability. This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
The way you guys are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast spells that have M as a component and use INT as its spellcasting focus.
Just going by RAW I don't see that red part in the original text of the third bullet point, I will post the third bullet point below in blue for easy comparison:
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
Can you use a spellcasting focus to cast magic missile? No. Plain and simple. No more than you cast MM with a twig, a puppy, sand, your BFF’s hand, or a jelly donut in one hand. The spell casting focus rules tell you explicitly what you can do with it. And nowhere does it say anything about V/S only spells.
The exact wording of the feat keeps tripping me up.
It suggests you CAN use your focus to cast ANY spell that requires INT as its spellcasting ability. This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
The way you guys are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast spells that have M as a component and use INT as its spellcasting focus.
Just going by RAW I don't see that red part in the original text of the third bullet point, I will post the third bullet point below in blue for easy comparison:
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
The problem is that the
only
way that the rules describe using a focus is to replace the material components of a spell: "A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell." You must use it in that fashion to use it. There is no other text in the rules telling you how to use a focus. Any other invention on how to use a focus is outside of the rules, and therefore homebrew.
Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell. Similarly, a spellcasting focus, such as a holy symbol, can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus.
How does this work or interact with the feat exactly, when the feat allows you to cast any spell with a focus that you gained from outside a class and doesn't differentiate between class for the spell you cast but only requires that it use Intelligence as its spellcasting ability?
Could this somehow, possibly allow you to use your non-class focus to cast any spell but still access features you have from either class, perhaps even the Infuse Item feature as you could put an infusion into this non-class focus?
These seem like important questions to me.
Well the feat doesn't really interact with multiclass rules, just the spellcasting feature or racial trait that the spells you cast come from. The "any spell cast with intelligence" part of the feat is the part referring to the spell's source. If the spellcasting feature that you learned that spell through changes the spell or its components, those changes still apply.
But no, the spellcasting features of artificer do not affect the spell's learned from the wizard's spellcasting feature, per the quoted rule.
For clarification I am not suggesting that the focus replace or change any of the components needed to cast the spell.
If V and/or S is required I plan on meeting those requirements above and beyond anything else the spell may or may not require.
I'm just curious if you can also use the focus in tandem with any required V and/or S component spells when you cast them. I cannot find a rule that explicitly prohibits this, neither can I find one that allows it. At least not by RAW, maybe, perhaps my reluctance to include RAI is working against me as that may allow for rules that support my idea.
There dont need to be rules that explicitly prohibit every conceivable unallowed action, they just need rules that say what you can do. Since there is no rule implying you can do this, RAW, you can't do this.
In reading that third bullet point I see an interpretation that is specific to that feat of using a focus to cast a spell.
And the general rule that I usually follow of using a focus to cast a spell with a M component, I don't think it still applies if it prevents the specific choices the feat allows you to make.
Although the focus isn't needed and doesn't appear to serve any function since there is no M component in the spell, the feat seems to suggest you can still use the focus to cast the spell. If you make the choices of Alchemist's Supplies and Magic Missile which is specific to this unique situation why should a general rule be used over the specific example I have shown?
We have been over this. The feat is no more specific about breaking general component rules than any other spellcasting focus feature. If your argument is that this wording is sufficient to use a focus for non-M spells, then you are arguing that all similar rules are sufficient to use a focus for non-M spells.
The exact wording of the feat keeps tripping me up.
It suggests you CAN use your focus to cast ANY spell that requires INT as its spellcasting ability. This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
The way you guys are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast spells that have M as a component and use INT as its spellcasting focus.
Just going by RAW I don't see that red part in the original text of the third bullet point.
The exact wording of the feature keeps tripping you up.
It plainly states you CAN use your focus to cast WIZARD spells. This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
The way you are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast wizard spells that have M as a component.
Just going by RAW I don't see that red part in the original text of the feature.
The 3rd last line of your post, 2nd sentence (it's roughly situated above the part in red from the 2nd last line. I'm going to copy/paste what you wrote:
This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
The 3rd last line of your post, 2nd sentence (it's roughly situated above the part in red from the 2nd last line. I'm going to copy/paste what you wrote:
This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
So you agree that every class can cast non-M spells with a focus now?
The 3rd last line of your post, 2nd sentence (it's roughly situated above the part in red from the 2nd last line. I'm going to copy/paste what you wrote:
This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
So you agree that every class can cast non-M spells with a focus now?
At least your consistency is improving.
Now we just have to deal with the fact that by RAW and official ruling, that this is in fact not the case.
But apparently, we’re still stuck at only considering a single sentence at a time.
As already stated, and you well know, every class may have a specific selection for a focus but that is also generally true for all examples of that class and subclass... case in point, all Bards get to use musical instruments as a focus.
If you ever bothered to read the 3rd bullet point of the feat instead of tuning out whenever I quote it or copy/paste it you would see that it not only allows for the use of a focus but the use of a focus to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting focus.
This is a whopping big huge, bigger than a barn door, difference between what all classes can do with a focus and what the 3rd bullet point of the feat allows.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
— A basic prayer.
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Actually, literally, it says that you can only use a focus that is associated with a class, so you can't use one that isn't associated with a class to cast any of your spells. "a spellcasting focus... can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus"
I certainly don't think that is the intention, but that is a discussion beyond the text of the rule.
No where does the feat say it replaces other casting components it just says you can use a tool as a casting focus instead of a normal casting focus for a material component for int based spells.
So no the feat doesn't let you just cast spells with a spork without the verbal and somatic component. https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/magic-missile Still requires a verbal and somatic component. My spork is useless in cast magic missile since it doesn't need material component.
RAW all that feat does it makes it so you can use a tool for focus as a focus would normally be used. It does not remove the other requirements. You still cast the spell as per normal it just replaces ONE need. And using magic missile as you example, it doesn't NEED a material component hence your spork does nothing for you in that spell. You do need a free hand and the ability top speak though.
No where below does it remove the other requirements and that is where your making this mistake. It just changes the fact that you would normally be using an arcane focus or a component pouch for int based spells that require a M component. It doesn't change ANYTHING else.
In your example
"In my example I had one hand free to supply the S component and the other hand was holding the Alchemist's Supplies."
If you were in a silence spell with your hand free and your Alchemist supplies in your other hand you still cant cast magic missile cause you cant talk.
For clarification I am not suggesting that the focus replace or change any of the components needed to cast the spell.
If V and/or S is required I plan on meeting those requirements above and beyond anything else the spell may or may not require.
I'm just curious if you can also use the focus in tandem with any required V and/or S component spells when you cast them. I cannot find a rule that explicitly prohibits this, neither can I find one that allows it. At least not by RAW, maybe, perhaps my reluctance to include RAI is working against me as that may allow for rules that support my idea.
There is only one rule that tells us what a focus does. You have routinely ignored it throughout this thread. It is the material component spellcasting rule. A focus's only use is to replace the material components of a spell that has them. That is the only way that you can use a focus to cast a spell. If you are not using a focus to fulfill the M requirement of a spell you are casting, you aren't using a focus to cast that spell. It is tautological.
Again, your interpretation doesn't actually let you cast any M spells using a focus. The text that lets you use a focus to replace material components is in a rule that you keep saying isn't relevant anymore.
No unless it NEEDs a material component you don't even need to have your focus out. RAW using magic missiles, I could be a prisoner without any of my gear and still cast magic missile since i need to just talk and wave my hands around. If I had my arcane spork in my hand my other hand was missing I would have to drop the arcane spork to cast magic missile since I need a free hand.
I understand there is no NEED to have or use a focus to cast a spell without a M component. But what if I WANT to anyway?
In reading that third bullet point I see an interpretation that is specific to that feat of using a focus to cast a spell.
And the general rule that I usually follow of using a focus to cast a spell with a M component, I don't think it still applies if it prevents the specific choices the feat allows you to make.
Although the focus isn't needed and doesn't appear to serve any function since there is no M component in the spell, the feat seems to suggest you can still use the focus to cast the spell. If you make the choices of Alchemist's Supplies and Magic Missile which is specific to this unique situation why should a general rule be used over the specific example I have shown?
The only rule that tells us how to use a focus is the one that you routinely ignore. Same as before.
If the rules don't say you can do something the assumption is that you cannot. There is no way to use a focus that is different than the single way described by the M rules.
Oh, and by the way, if you are ignoring that M rule, then you can't even use a focus for its intended use -- to replace material components, so it doesn't do anything for any spell.
Again IF it needs a focus. It doesn't change the other requirements for the spell. And absolutely you want to hold forth your arcane spork while you cast a spell sure. but it doesn't do anything for the spell casting. Its like if i was going to cook a steak and I had a bucket of water one hand and a spatula in the other. The spatula gets used to flip[ the steak the bucket of water does nothing. In fact I'm wasting energy holding the bucket of water. So yes roleplay reasons you can hold your focus out. But it doesn't do anything to help you with casting non-Material component spells. All the feat does is REPLACES what you can use for a material component not how the spell casting works.
The exact wording of the feat keeps tripping me up.
It suggests you CAN use your focus to cast ANY spell that requires INT as its spellcasting ability. This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
The way you guys are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast spells that have M as a component and use INT as its spellcasting focus.
Just going by RAW I don't see that red part in the original text of the third bullet point, I will post the third bullet point below in blue for easy comparison:
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
Again doesnt remove the other parts only says instead of a arcane focus I can use a tool as my focus. I still NEED the verbal and somatic IF the spell has it. RAW it does no remove V or S unlike in subtle spell where it says you can cast with out those.
Subtle Spell
When you cast a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without any somatic or verbal components.
The way you guys are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast spells that have M as a component and use INT as its spellcasting focus.
This is absolutely correct. RAW exact......
You use material component pouch or spellcasting focus for spells you cast that has material component. If material isn't required to cast the spell, none is actually used in the spellcasting.
As the Dev once said, without material component a spellcasting focus is only decoration☺
The reason you're confused, Brian_Avery, is that you're inventing a new meaning for the phrase "as a spellcasting focus." To use something as a spellcasting focus is simply to replace a spell's material components with that thing. Here's the rules text to support me:
The only other rules defining what a spellcasting focus is, or how it's used, are pieces of text that directly just tell you to go back and reference this rule here. As an example:
That link, (chapter 5, "Equipment") is this here:
And of course that link, (chapter 10) is the rules I posted first. They create a loop of links, each directing you back to the other. In other words, there isn't anything else to define what a focus is, how it's used, or what you can do with it. So let's use that definition, then.
The focus is used in place of the components for a spell. Surely, you could use it for other purposes -- it might make a nice paperweight, for example. But if you aren't using it in place of the components specified for a spell, then you aren't using it as a spellcasting focus.
I feel like I'm invisible here. Any chance of getting a response to any of the points below? Or do you only want to go around in circles forever? I really feel this is your way out, your way to finally end this preposterous thread, but if you don't want to ever stop making the exact same arguments against the exact same arguments, then you can just ignore me again. Though, in doing so, you'd be signaling to everyone that you don't intend to ever stop making the exact same arguments against the exact same arguments, and if you did that, they might be inclined to leave.
Can you use a spellcasting focus to cast magic missile? No. Plain and simple. No more than you cast MM with a twig, a puppy, sand, your BFF’s hand, or a jelly donut in one hand. The spell casting focus rules tell you explicitly what you can do with it. And nowhere does it say anything about V/S only spells.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The problem is that the
only
way that the rules describe using a focus is to replace the material components of a spell: "A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell." You must use it in that fashion to use it. There is no other text in the rules telling you how to use a focus. Any other invention on how to use a focus is outside of the rules, and therefore homebrew.
Well the tweet is referring artificer spells. Magic missile is not an artificer spell unless you are the Armorer subclass.
Well the feat doesn't really interact with multiclass rules, just the spellcasting feature or racial trait that the spells you cast come from. The "any spell cast with intelligence" part of the feat is the part referring to the spell's source. If the spellcasting feature that you learned that spell through changes the spell or its components, those changes still apply.
But no, the spellcasting features of artificer do not affect the spell's learned from the wizard's spellcasting feature, per the quoted rule.
There dont need to be rules that explicitly prohibit every conceivable unallowed action, they just need rules that say what you can do. Since there is no rule implying you can do this, RAW, you can't do this.
We have been over this. The feat is no more specific about breaking general component rules than any other spellcasting focus feature. If your argument is that this wording is sufficient to use a focus for non-M spells, then you are arguing that all similar rules are sufficient to use a focus for non-M spells.
For example:
The exact wording of the feature keeps tripping you up.
It plainly states you CAN use your focus to cast WIZARD spells. This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
The way you are suggesting it works is I can only use the focus to cast wizard spells that have M as a component.
Just going by RAW I don't see that red part in the original text of the feature.
DxJxC
The 3rd last line of your post, 2nd sentence (it's roughly situated above the part in red from the 2nd last line. I'm going to copy/paste what you wrote:
This, by RAW, suggests you CAN cast a spell that does not have M as a component.
So you agree that every class can cast non-M spells with a focus now?
At least your consistency is improving.
Now we just have to deal with the fact that by RAW and official ruling, that this is in fact not the case.
But apparently, we’re still stuck at only considering a single sentence at a time.
As already stated, and you well know, every class may have a specific selection for a focus but that is also generally true for all examples of that class and subclass... case in point, all Bards get to use musical instruments as a focus.
If you ever bothered to read the 3rd bullet point of the feat instead of tuning out whenever I quote it or copy/paste it you would see that it not only allows for the use of a focus but the use of a focus to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting focus.
This is a whopping big huge, bigger than a barn door, difference between what all classes can do with a focus and what the 3rd bullet point of the feat allows.