A quote from the DMG l found on reddit while researching this topic: A wizard spell on a spell scroll can be copied just as spells in spellbooks can be copied. When a spell is copied from a spell scroll, the copier must succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell's level. If the check succeeds, the spell is successfully copied. Whether the check succeeds or fails, the spell scroll is destroyed.
But WHY? Why does attempting to copy the spell from a scroll Destroy it? I don't understand. What Mechanical reason is there for this? Is it to make it so a wizard who finds, say, a clone scroll has to choose to get one free casting now, or copy it and scribe more later? That's my only Explanation, and even then, it seems kinda silly to have have the scroll self destruct if the copy fails. Like, how does the scroll know it's being copied, or when the copier is finished? (And please don't say "Magic", that would imply the scroll has some extra form of magic designed specifically to screw wizards over, and l don't see how that could be applied to every spell on their spell list. Actually, knowing wizards, that might be exactly what happens. Either that, or the settings Magic Deity has something to do with it. But this has gotten into lore territory, so I'll leave it at that.)
(Also, someone wants to explain the Lore/In universe reason for this rule, that would be appreciated, and so l created this thread .)
Scrolls are single-use items, for whichever purpose they are used for.
Mechanically, in simple terms, if they didn't self-destruct on a failure then there would be no point in rolling - you could simply continue scribing until it worked. Many tables hand-wave this and don't bother with the roll, as scribing is a core part of the Wizard identity and comes with substantial cost and time commitment. Really, the "scroll destroyed on a failure" is a holdover from old editions where playing a Wizard/Magic-User was a lot more complicated.
Mechanically: balance reasons. You don't want wizards to simply rent scrolls for a fraction of their cost in order to learn all their spells do you? If so, just house rule that.
Flavor reasons: it probably has to do with the somewhat magical nature of wizard's spellbook and why it cost special expensive ink.
The way to think of it is that a scroll isn't simply a piece of paper with words on it, there is an actual magical spell bound inside the scroll, along with all of the energy required to cast it; remember, scrolls don't consume a spell slot, the scroll itself is destroyed instead, because the energy has to come from somewhere, and it's presumably bound into the scroll itself.
Because of the way the scroll works, copying it isn't as a simple as writing the words from the scroll onto a page in your spellbook; not least of all because the words on the scroll may not be the same as what you need to write into your spellbook, i.e- the words on a scroll tell you what spell it contains and how to trigger it, it doesn't tell you how to learn the spell, or the intricacies of casting it yourself using your own magical energy. It's like comparing a match-stick (use once to light a fire) to a guide on how to build your own cigarette lighter (reusable fire starter requiring only fuel).
With this in mind, the act of copying is actually a transfer of the spell out of the scroll, and transcribing its details into your spellbook so that you know how to cast it yourself in future. But if you fail, you might only succeed in removing the spell from the scroll, and while holding it in your mind for transcription you lose control before you finish, and the spell is lost.
TL;DR It's a magical process, therefore the answer is "magic".
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The way to think of it is that a scroll isn't simply a piece of paper with words on it, there is an actual magical spell bound inside the scroll, along with all of the energy required to cast it; remember, scrolls don't consume a spell slot, the scroll itself is destroyed instead, because the energy has to come from somewhere, and it's presumably bound into the scroll itself.
Because of the way the scroll works, copying it isn't as a simple as writing the words from the scroll onto a page in your spellbook; not least of all because the words on the scroll may not be the same as what you need to write into your spellbook, i.e- the words on a scroll tell you what spell it contains and how to trigger it, it doesn't tell you how to learn the spell, or the intricacies of casting it yourself using your own magical energy. It's like comparing a match-stick (use once to light a fire) to a guide on how to build your own cigarette lighter (reusable fire starter requiring only fuel).
With this in mind, the act of copying is actually a transfer of the spell out of the scroll, and transcribe its details into your spellbook so that you know how to cast it yourself in future. But if you fail, you might only succeed in removing the spell from the scroll, and while holding it in your mind for transcription you lose control before you finish, and the spell is lost.
TL;DR It's a magical process, therefore the answer is "magic".
I agree here. The scroll holds the actual spell itself and words of power and instructions for the right somatic gestures to unleash the spell.
Copying requires the wizard to unravel the fabric of the stored spell on the scroll, in order to reproduce the necessary material components and the "science" behind the casting process. This only works, if the Wizard partially casts the spell from the scroll piece by piece and translate the results into a formula.
It’s a balance reason. But I can assume you knew that.
If your looking for an in game reason why this occurs then here are a few different thoughts:
- When a scroll is used it’s inscriptions morph on the page throughout the process. These is no way to pause or rewind this process so you will have to cast the spell to learn how to replicate the effects properly. Yet because you are busy transcribing the whole process, you don’t manage to use the spell to any effect.
- A spell scroll is designed with intricate layers of special inks to draw the required symbols and geometry along with the complex lines of runes and text. To copy this and replicate the nature of the arcane weave you must carefully disassemble the inks and paper to understand it entirely. Think reverse engineering and the complex layers of a circuit board.
lastly I just want to add that a spell scroll is different to a page of a wizards book. The scrolls are built to hold the magic, the book is just your notes on how to perform the spell from scratch (with somatic, verbal and material components). The process of opening a scroll can vary from game to game, but one thing that remains the same is that you have to irreversibly destroy the scroll to gain the secrets built into it.
I assume you don’t destroy a fellow wizards spell book when you copy from it, you simply translate their methods into your own notes. That’s how you make a copy of your book, which is a great idea because you could very easily loose your book and all the spells learned up till that point. Imagine being level 10 and only knowing cantrips because someone stole your book. Yikes.
I've never given it much thought, and it's never come up at any of my tables.
But my way of looking at it is you're not so much "copying" a spell as "reverse-engineering" it. Taking it apart to see how it works. So the process of transferring the spell breaks it into smaller, non-active pieces, dissipating it's arcane energies as a consequence.
If a player asked I would say that they're conducting little tests, say on the patterns and rhythms of somatic gestures and such, which eats away at the arcane forces contained in the original scroll. I could also imagine lots of crossed-out words and marginal notes altering the original text, making the scroll itself now inactive.
The way to think of it is that a scroll isn't simply a piece of paper with words on it, there is an actual magical spell bound inside the scroll, along with all of the energy required to cast it; remember, scrolls don't consume a spell slot, the scroll itself is destroyed instead, because the energy has to come from somewhere, and it's presumably bound into the scroll itself.
Because of the way the scroll works, copying it isn't as a simple as writing the words from the scroll onto a page in your spellbook; not least of all because the words on the scroll may not be the same as what you need to write into your spellbook, i.e- the words on a scroll tell you what spell it contains and how to trigger it, it doesn't tell you how to learn the spell, or the intricacies of casting it yourself using your own magical energy. It's like comparing a match-stick (use once to light a fire) to a guide on how to build your own cigarette lighter (reusable fire starter requiring only fuel).
With this in mind, the act of copying is actually a transfer of the spell out of the scroll, and transcribing its details into your spellbook so that you know how to cast it yourself in future. But if you fail, you might only succeed in removing the spell from the scroll, and while holding it in your mind for transcription you lose control before you finish, and the spell is lost.
TL;DR It's a magical process, therefore the answer is "magic".
Ah, that actually makes sense. Well, as much as my muggle brain can understand anyway.
I assume you don’t destroy a fellow wizards spell book when you copy from it, you simply translate their methods into your own notes. That’s how you make a copy of your book, which is a great idea because you could very easily loose your book and all the spells learned up till that point. Imagine being level 10 and only knowing cantrips because someone stole your book. Yikes.
One of the reasons Scribe is my Favorite Wizard Subclass.
I assume you don’t destroy a fellow wizards spell book when you copy from it, you simply translate their methods into your own notes. That’s how you make a copy of your book, which is a great idea because you could very easily loose your book and all the spells learned up till that point. Imagine being level 10 and only knowing cantrips because someone stole your book. Yikes.
You'll never lose all your spells. You still have the spells currently prepared, and those can be transcribed from memory into a new book. It's definitely a crippling loss, but you should never revert to cantrips only.
I assume you don’t destroy a fellow wizards spell book when you copy from it, you simply translate their methods into your own notes. That’s how you make a copy of your book, which is a great idea because you could very easily loose your book and all the spells learned up till that point. Imagine being level 10 and only knowing cantrips because someone stole your book. Yikes.
You'll never lose all your spells. You still have the spells currently prepared, and those can be transcribed from memory into a new book. It's definitely a crippling loss, but you should never revert to cantrips only.
Ah I didn’t know this, that’s pretty good. I mostly play wizards with their core spells prepared and a few that are interchangeable. Wouldn’t be such a big loss after all.
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A quote from the DMG l found on reddit while researching this topic: A wizard spell on a spell scroll can be copied just as spells in spellbooks can be copied. When a spell is copied from a spell scroll, the copier must succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell's level. If the check succeeds, the spell is successfully copied. Whether the check succeeds or fails, the spell scroll is destroyed.
But WHY? Why does attempting to copy the spell from a scroll Destroy it? I don't understand. What Mechanical reason is there for this? Is it to make it so a wizard who finds, say, a clone scroll has to choose to get one free casting now, or copy it and scribe more later? That's my only Explanation, and even then, it seems kinda silly to have have the scroll self destruct if the copy fails. Like, how does the scroll know it's being copied, or when the copier is finished? (And please don't say "Magic", that would imply the scroll has some extra form of magic designed specifically to screw wizards over, and l don't see how that could be applied to every spell on their spell list. Actually, knowing wizards, that might be exactly what happens. Either that, or the settings Magic Deity has something to do with it. But this has gotten into lore territory, so I'll leave it at that.)
(Also, someone wants to explain the Lore/In universe reason for this rule, that would be appreciated, and so l created this thread .)
Scrolls are single-use items, for whichever purpose they are used for.
Mechanically, in simple terms, if they didn't self-destruct on a failure then there would be no point in rolling - you could simply continue scribing until it worked. Many tables hand-wave this and don't bother with the roll, as scribing is a core part of the Wizard identity and comes with substantial cost and time commitment. Really, the "scroll destroyed on a failure" is a holdover from old editions where playing a Wizard/Magic-User was a lot more complicated.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Mechanically: balance reasons. You don't want wizards to simply rent scrolls for a fraction of their cost in order to learn all their spells do you? If so, just house rule that.
Flavor reasons: it probably has to do with the somewhat magical nature of wizard's spellbook and why it cost special expensive ink.
The way to think of it is that a scroll isn't simply a piece of paper with words on it, there is an actual magical spell bound inside the scroll, along with all of the energy required to cast it; remember, scrolls don't consume a spell slot, the scroll itself is destroyed instead, because the energy has to come from somewhere, and it's presumably bound into the scroll itself.
Because of the way the scroll works, copying it isn't as a simple as writing the words from the scroll onto a page in your spellbook; not least of all because the words on the scroll may not be the same as what you need to write into your spellbook, i.e- the words on a scroll tell you what spell it contains and how to trigger it, it doesn't tell you how to learn the spell, or the intricacies of casting it yourself using your own magical energy. It's like comparing a match-stick (use once to light a fire) to a guide on how to build your own cigarette lighter (reusable fire starter requiring only fuel).
With this in mind, the act of copying is actually a transfer of the spell out of the scroll, and transcribing its details into your spellbook so that you know how to cast it yourself in future. But if you fail, you might only succeed in removing the spell from the scroll, and while holding it in your mind for transcription you lose control before you finish, and the spell is lost.
TL;DR
It's a magical process, therefore the answer is "magic".
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Copyright reasons
I agree here. The scroll holds the actual spell itself and words of power and instructions for the right somatic gestures to unleash the spell.
Copying requires the wizard to unravel the fabric of the stored spell on the scroll, in order to reproduce the necessary material components and the "science" behind the casting process. This only works, if the Wizard partially casts the spell from the scroll piece by piece and translate the results into a formula.
Low key, best answer right here.
It’s a balance reason. But I can assume you knew that.
If your looking for an in game reason why this occurs then here are a few different thoughts:
- When a scroll is used it’s inscriptions morph on the page throughout the process. These is no way to pause or rewind this process so you will have to cast the spell to learn how to replicate the effects properly. Yet because you are busy transcribing the whole process, you don’t manage to use the spell to any effect.
- A spell scroll is designed with intricate layers of special inks to draw the required symbols and geometry along with the complex lines of runes and text. To copy this and replicate the nature of the arcane weave you must carefully disassemble the inks and paper to understand it entirely. Think reverse engineering and the complex layers of a circuit board.
lastly I just want to add that a spell scroll is different to a page of a wizards book. The scrolls are built to hold the magic, the book is just your notes on how to perform the spell from scratch (with somatic, verbal and material components). The process of opening a scroll can vary from game to game, but one thing that remains the same is that you have to irreversibly destroy the scroll to gain the secrets built into it.
I assume you don’t destroy a fellow wizards spell book when you copy from it, you simply translate their methods into your own notes. That’s how you make a copy of your book, which is a great idea because you could very easily loose your book and all the spells learned up till that point. Imagine being level 10 and only knowing cantrips because someone stole your book. Yikes.
I've never given it much thought, and it's never come up at any of my tables.
But my way of looking at it is you're not so much "copying" a spell as "reverse-engineering" it. Taking it apart to see how it works. So the process of transferring the spell breaks it into smaller, non-active pieces, dissipating it's arcane energies as a consequence.
If a player asked I would say that they're conducting little tests, say on the patterns and rhythms of somatic gestures and such, which eats away at the arcane forces contained in the original scroll. I could also imagine lots of crossed-out words and marginal notes altering the original text, making the scroll itself now inactive.
Ah, that actually makes sense. Well, as much as my muggle brain can understand anyway.
lol
One of the reasons Scribe is my Favorite Wizard Subclass.
You'll never lose all your spells. You still have the spells currently prepared, and those can be transcribed from memory into a new book. It's definitely a crippling loss, but you should never revert to cantrips only.
Ah I didn’t know this, that’s pretty good. I mostly play wizards with their core spells prepared and a few that are interchangeable. Wouldn’t be such a big loss after all.