Just a random question, are your DM's (or you as a DM) very strict on not allowing Warcaster to be taken by a Paladin or Ranger for Custom Lineage or Variant Human or does your DM/you normally let it slide?
Basically I'm going to start a Paladin build who goes to Sorc lvl 6 but Warcaster as most know is really great to have and would prefer it with Custom Lineage since Paladin's are so MAD, all the ability points I can get are needed. So wanted to know if I have a leg to stand on or if its generally always a no and I should give up trying to ask for it.
And if you want to give reasons behind your answers i'm very interested!
Most of the games I play or run are basically Rules as Written so Warcaster isn't an option for a level 1 paladin since they usually can't cast at least one spell.
However, it is also something that a DM might decide was fine since the paladin will be able to cast spells at level 2 which is only a delay of one level. Also, depending on what sources the DM is using for your game, some of the backgrounds available might include the ability to cast a spell. That is likely sufficient for the purposes of Warcaster since it does not require the Spellcasting feature or spell slots only the ability to cast at least one spell.
Most of the games I play or run are basically Rules as Written so Warcaster isn't an option for a level 1 paladin since they usually can't cast at least one spell.
However, it is also something that a DM might decide was fine since the paladin will be able to cast spells at level 2 which is only a delay of one level. Also, depending on what sources the DM is using for your game, some of the backgrounds available might include the ability to cast a spell. That is likely sufficient for the purposes of Warcaster since it does not require the Spellcasting feature or spell slots only the ability to cast at least one spell.
Thats fair, and ya I think most games would go rules as written. Would it matter if you started at say lvl 5 vs lvl 1? But still taking it technically at lvl 1 because your lvl 4 increase would be used to increase ability scores, would that change anything at all or basically no matter what lvl your game starts at, no Warcaster feat for Paladin if using it from Variant Human/Custom Lineage trait?
Just a random question, are your DM's (or you as a DM) very strict on not allowing Warcaster to be taken by a Paladin or Ranger for Custom Lineage or Variant Human or does your DM/you normally let it slide?
Basically I'm going to start a Paladin build who goes to Sorc lvl 6 but Warcaster as most know is really great to have and would prefer it with Custom Lineage since Paladin's are so MAD, all the ability points I can get are needed. So wanted to know if I have a leg to stand on or if its generally always a no and I should give up trying to ask for it.
And if you want to give reasons behind your answers i'm very interested!
Thanks
A homebrew most of my DMs allow is for you to delay any feature you would get until later (doing so means you have to complete a long rest to the benefit). This would allow a Custom Lineage/Variant Human to put off gaining their feat until level 2, achieving what you want.
Just a random question, are your DM's (or you as a DM) very strict on not allowing Warcaster to be taken by a Paladin or Ranger for Custom Lineage or Variant Human or does your DM/you normally let it slide?
Basically I'm going to start a Paladin build who goes to Sorc lvl 6 but Warcaster as most know is really great to have and would prefer it with Custom Lineage since Paladin's are so MAD, all the ability points I can get are needed. So wanted to know if I have a leg to stand on or if its generally always a no and I should give up trying to ask for it.
And if you want to give reasons behind your answers i'm very interested!
Thanks
A homebrew most of my DMs allow is for you to delay any feature you would get until later (doing so means you have to complete a long rest to the benefit). This would allow a Custom Lineage/Variant Human to put off gaining their feat until level 2, achieving what you want.
Thats a cool homebrew change. I think that would be a good compromise. I think we're starting at lvl 5 but even so I might bring that up to my DM!
Most of the games I play or run are basically Rules as Written so Warcaster isn't an option for a level 1 paladin since they usually can't cast at least one spell.
However, it is also something that a DM might decide was fine since the paladin will be able to cast spells at level 2 which is only a delay of one level. Also, depending on what sources the DM is using for your game, some of the backgrounds available might include the ability to cast a spell. That is likely sufficient for the purposes of Warcaster since it does not require the Spellcasting feature or spell slots only the ability to cast at least one spell.
Thats fair, and ya I think most games would go rules as written. Would it matter if you started at say lvl 5 vs lvl 1? But still taking it technically at lvl 1 because your lvl 4 increase would be used to increase ability scores, would that change anything at all or basically no matter what lvl your game starts at, no Warcaster feat for Paladin if using it from Variant Human/Custom Lineage trait?
Usually, it just wouldn't be an option since even rebuilds follow the same rules. (but as I said, it is a pretty minor constraint and some DMs would just allow it without a problem).
I'd also add that it doesn't seem to me to be the most useful feat for a paladin. Warcaster gets advantage on concentration saves, casting spells with both hands full and casting spells as an op attack. Resilient con is probably better for a paladin than advantage (at least by late tier 2), they don't have many spells they would cast for an opportunity attack and many of their spells can still be cast while holding a weapon and shield.
Paladins using 2-handed weapons don't need warcaster to cast spells since they will have a hand free. Two hands are only needed for two handed weapons when making an attack.
Paladins can cast V and VSM spells without warcaster. Since their shield can be used as a spell casting focus with their symbol on the shield, the hand holding the shield can be used for any somatic components for VSM spells (unless specific components are required).
This only leaves V,S spells that paladins might want to cast during combat. Some of the V,S spells that might be used during combat would most likely be cast in the first round before drawing a weapon. e.g. Divine Favor, Elemental Weapon, Heroism, Spirit Shroud, Holy Weapon.
The only spells that I can see in the list that would really benefit from warcaster to be cast while holding a weapon and shield would be ... cure wounds, lesser restoration, dispel magic, maybe daylight ... which might come up in combat but in those rare cases, the paladin could potentially drop their weapon and pick it up again. However, in the case of cure wounds at least, the paladin is probably more likely to use lay on hands.
So, I am curious, what feature of warcaster do you consider essential for a paladin?
Most of the games I play or run are basically Rules as Written so Warcaster isn't an option for a level 1 paladin since they usually can't cast at least one spell.
However, it is also something that a DM might decide was fine since the paladin will be able to cast spells at level 2 which is only a delay of one level. Also, depending on what sources the DM is using for your game, some of the backgrounds available might include the ability to cast a spell. That is likely sufficient for the purposes of Warcaster since it does not require the Spellcasting feature or spell slots only the ability to cast at least one spell.
Thats fair, and ya I think most games would go rules as written. Would it matter if you started at say lvl 5 vs lvl 1? But still taking it technically at lvl 1 because your lvl 4 increase would be used to increase ability scores, would that change anything at all or basically no matter what lvl your game starts at, no Warcaster feat for Paladin if using it from Variant Human/Custom Lineage trait?
Usually, it just wouldn't be an option since even rebuilds follow the same rules. (but as I said, it is a pretty minor constraint and some DMs would just allow it without a problem).
I'd also add that it doesn't seem to me to be the most useful feat for a paladin. Warcaster gets advantage on concentration saves, casting spells with both hands full and casting spells as an op attack. Resilient con is probably better for a paladin than advantage (at least by late tier 2), they don't have many spells they would cast for an opportunity attack and many of their spells can still be cast while holding a weapon and shield.
Paladins using 2-handed weapons don't need warcaster to cast spells since they will have a hand free. Two hands are only needed for two handed weapons when making an attack.
Paladins can cast V and VSM spells without warcaster. Since their shield can be used as a spell casting focus with their symbol on the shield, the hand holding the shield can be used for any somatic components for VSM spells (unless specific components are required).
This only leaves V,S spells that paladins might want to cast during combat. Some of the V,S spells that might be used during combat would most likely be cast in the first round before drawing a weapon. e.g. Divine Favor, Elemental Weapon, Heroism, Spirit Shroud, Holy Weapon.
The only spells that I can see in the list that would really benefit from warcaster to be cast while holding a weapon and shield would be ... cure wounds, lesser restoration, dispel magic, maybe daylight ... which might come up in combat but in those rare cases, the paladin could potentially drop their weapon and pick it up again. However, in the case of cure wounds at least, the paladin is probably more likely to use lay on hands.
So, I am curious, what feature of warcaster do you consider essential for a paladin?
Thats true, though i'm doing a 6 lvl Pali and rest multi into Sorcerer. So after 6th lvl i'll be sometimes using Green Flame Blade, Shield, Absorb Elements, maybe Inflict Wounds, Shadow Blade, Spiritual Weapon, etc. All of those are either S or V/S only. So though Resilient Con is better than straight up advantage from Warcaster, the other benefits kind of outweigh it for me.
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Just a random question, are your DM's (or you as a DM) very strict on not allowing Warcaster to be taken by a Paladin or Ranger for Custom Lineage or Variant Human or does your DM/you normally let it slide?
Basically I'm going to start a Paladin build who goes to Sorc lvl 6 but Warcaster as most know is really great to have and would prefer it with Custom Lineage since Paladin's are so MAD, all the ability points I can get are needed. So wanted to know if I have a leg to stand on or if its generally always a no and I should give up trying to ask for it.
And if you want to give reasons behind your answers i'm very interested!
Thanks
Most of the games I play or run are basically Rules as Written so Warcaster isn't an option for a level 1 paladin since they usually can't cast at least one spell.
However, it is also something that a DM might decide was fine since the paladin will be able to cast spells at level 2 which is only a delay of one level. Also, depending on what sources the DM is using for your game, some of the backgrounds available might include the ability to cast a spell. That is likely sufficient for the purposes of Warcaster since it does not require the Spellcasting feature or spell slots only the ability to cast at least one spell.
Thats fair, and ya I think most games would go rules as written. Would it matter if you started at say lvl 5 vs lvl 1? But still taking it technically at lvl 1 because your lvl 4 increase would be used to increase ability scores, would that change anything at all or basically no matter what lvl your game starts at, no Warcaster feat for Paladin if using it from Variant Human/Custom Lineage trait?
A homebrew most of my DMs allow is for you to delay any feature you would get until later (doing so means you have to complete a long rest to the benefit). This would allow a Custom Lineage/Variant Human to put off gaining their feat until level 2, achieving what you want.
Thats a cool homebrew change. I think that would be a good compromise. I think we're starting at lvl 5 but even so I might bring that up to my DM!
Usually, it just wouldn't be an option since even rebuilds follow the same rules. (but as I said, it is a pretty minor constraint and some DMs would just allow it without a problem).
I'd also add that it doesn't seem to me to be the most useful feat for a paladin. Warcaster gets advantage on concentration saves, casting spells with both hands full and casting spells as an op attack. Resilient con is probably better for a paladin than advantage (at least by late tier 2), they don't have many spells they would cast for an opportunity attack and many of their spells can still be cast while holding a weapon and shield.
Paladins using 2-handed weapons don't need warcaster to cast spells since they will have a hand free. Two hands are only needed for two handed weapons when making an attack.
Paladins can cast V and VSM spells without warcaster. Since their shield can be used as a spell casting focus with their symbol on the shield, the hand holding the shield can be used for any somatic components for VSM spells (unless specific components are required).
This only leaves V,S spells that paladins might want to cast during combat. Some of the V,S spells that might be used during combat would most likely be cast in the first round before drawing a weapon. e.g. Divine Favor, Elemental Weapon, Heroism, Spirit Shroud, Holy Weapon.
The only spells that I can see in the list that would really benefit from warcaster to be cast while holding a weapon and shield would be ... cure wounds, lesser restoration, dispel magic, maybe daylight ... which might come up in combat but in those rare cases, the paladin could potentially drop their weapon and pick it up again. However, in the case of cure wounds at least, the paladin is probably more likely to use lay on hands.
So, I am curious, what feature of warcaster do you consider essential for a paladin?
Thats true, though i'm doing a 6 lvl Pali and rest multi into Sorcerer. So after 6th lvl i'll be sometimes using Green Flame Blade, Shield, Absorb Elements, maybe Inflict Wounds, Shadow Blade, Spiritual Weapon, etc. All of those are either S or V/S only. So though Resilient Con is better than straight up advantage from Warcaster, the other benefits kind of outweigh it for me.