The Assassin Rogue ability Assassinate states "You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit." Most Rogues only have one Attack so this is pretty clear.
But what happens when the Rogue gets more than one Attack for whatever reason? Surprise is defined as "... the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter. If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't."
To me, this implies that ALL of the attacker's strikes are counted as valid for the auto-crit on the Assassinate ability.
On the one hand, this makes multi-attack Rogue Assassins MUCH more dangerous on the first round of combat. On the other hand, except for Sharpshooter, they likely won't have access to many force-multipliers and Sneack Attack specifically states that it only works once per round.
I'm thinking of trying a build like this soon but I want to make sure that I have my ducks in a row rather than simply assuming that it works the way I think it does.
Yes, Assassinate applies to all attacks the character makes against a creature that has not yet acted in combat. This can even include attacks they make with their reaction outside of their turn. This isn't something that comes up often but it can happen if a Battle Master Fighter uses Commander's Strike on the Assassin.
Also note that the advantage on attacks from Assassinate applies anytime the Assassin bears their target in initiative. It is only the automatic critical hits that requires the target to be surprised too.
Yes, Assassinate applies to all attacks the character makes against a creature that has not yet acted in combat. This can even include attacks they make with their reaction outside of their turn. This isn't something that comes up often but it can happen if a Battle Master Fighter uses Commander's Strike on the Assassin.
Also note that the advantage on attacks from Assassinate applies anytime the Assassin bears their target in initiative. It is only the automatic critical hits that requires the target to be surprised too.
So (and this is an EXTREME case I know), the Fighter/Rogue/Ranger tri-build, on the first round of a combat (assuming surprise), with 2 Attacks base (Fighter level 5), +1 Attack for the first round (from Gloomstalker Ranger), Action-Surged (for 6 Attacks if my math is right) could, in theory, get SIX Attacks with auto-Crits with one of them also having Sneak Attack?
Again, trying to make sure that this works the way it sounds like it does because if my DM is going to be weeping on the first round of combat as I pin cushion his BBEG I want to be prepared.
Yes, this is totally valid. Assassin is a fairly popular 3-level dip because the assassinate feature comboes so easily with builds like this. Anything that lets you add extra damage or additional attacks all benefit from it. Add in some Battlemaster Maneuvers, Paladin Smites, Blade Flourishes... whatever you can think of and you can build a pretty nasty nova build.
Yes, this is totally valid. Assassin is a fairly popular 3-level dip because the assassinate feature comboes so easily with builds like this. Anything that lets you add extra damage or additional attacks all benefit from it. Add in some Battlemaster Maneuvers, Paladin Smites, Blade Flourishes... whatever you can think of and you can build a pretty nasty nova build.
I mentioned this to my DM who also confirmed it. I also promised that this would be one of those 'I only use this when we absolutely, positively, need to make something dead fast!' things and that I wouldn't do it for every fight. I suspect that he doesn't believe me as his response was 'Uh huh...okay...sure.'
I likely won't build this as it takes forever to come online and I'd be giving up tons of things from each class...but it's fun to dream. Maybe for a one-shot where we start at level 12 or something.
I will say that it's actually kind of hard to Surprise enemies on a regular basis... it's rare to know where the enemy is going to be enough to plan for it, and also the more people in your team the more likely you are to have at least one person roll below the enemy's passive perception. I think, for a well-known example... the first series of Critical Role had an Assassin Rogue as one of the main characters, and he actually used his assassinate auto-critical like... twice in the whole series? Maybe a few more than that, but it was a pretty long-running series and he barely got to use that feature.
As powerful as this is surprise is already a huge advantage. So this is something that helps you crush an encounter that would already be easier than normal. And spells like Alarm become the bane of your existence.
Still, I can see something like this being really fun in a Hitman style one shot.
I will say that it's actually kind of hard to Surprise enemies on a regular basis... it's rare to know where the enemy is going to be enough to plan for it, and also the more people in your team the more likely you are to have at least one person roll below the enemy's passive perception. I think, for a well-known example... the first series of Critical Role had an Assassin Rogue as one of the main characters, and he actually used his assassinate auto-critical like... twice in the whole series? Maybe a few more than that, but it was a pretty long-running series and he barely got to use that feature.
I remember one of those because he kept adding stuff and FINALLY the guy he'd jumped died but yeah, that's why this wouldn't happen every fight. Still...a V. Human with Sharpshooter doing this even once a campaign would make for the most epic of stories. I'm fiddling with building one now and it's not as bad as I thought it would be early on. Sure, you don't start to get into the good stuff until level 6-7 but even so, you're no slouch.
I came here because I built a bugbear open hand monk and wanted to know if I got the bugbears 2D6 surprise attack damage on all 4 of his attacks first round or just the 1st one?
I think he would because all those attacks are happening while the target is surprised.
The Bugbear's Surprise Attacks feature just requires that the target you hit hasn't taken a turn yet, not that it is surprised. And you are correct, it doesn't have any language like "once per turn" so it applies to all such attacks.
The Bugbear's Surprise Attacks feature just requires that the target you hit hasn't taken a turn yet, not that it is surprised. And you are correct, it doesn't have any language like "once per turn" so it applies to all such attacks.
The Assassin Rogue ability Assassinate states "You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit." Most Rogues only have one Attack so this is pretty clear.
But what happens when the Rogue gets more than one Attack for whatever reason? Surprise is defined as "... the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter. If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't."
To me, this implies that ALL of the attacker's strikes are counted as valid for the auto-crit on the Assassinate ability.
On the one hand, this makes multi-attack Rogue Assassins MUCH more dangerous on the first round of combat. On the other hand, except for Sharpshooter, they likely won't have access to many force-multipliers and Sneack Attack specifically states that it only works once per round.
I'm thinking of trying a build like this soon but I want to make sure that I have my ducks in a row rather than simply assuming that it works the way I think it does.
Thanks in advance.
Yes, Assassinate applies to all attacks the character makes against a creature that has not yet acted in combat. This can even include attacks they make with their reaction outside of their turn. This isn't something that comes up often but it can happen if a Battle Master Fighter uses Commander's Strike on the Assassin.
Also note that the advantage on attacks from Assassinate applies anytime the Assassin bears their target in initiative. It is only the automatic critical hits that requires the target to be surprised too.
So (and this is an EXTREME case I know), the Fighter/Rogue/Ranger tri-build, on the first round of a combat (assuming surprise), with 2 Attacks base (Fighter level 5), +1 Attack for the first round (from Gloomstalker Ranger), Action-Surged (for 6 Attacks if my math is right) could, in theory, get SIX Attacks with auto-Crits with one of them also having Sneak Attack?
Again, trying to make sure that this works the way it sounds like it does because if my DM is going to be weeping on the first round of combat as I pin cushion his BBEG I want to be prepared.
Yes, this is totally valid. Assassin is a fairly popular 3-level dip because the assassinate feature comboes so easily with builds like this. Anything that lets you add extra damage or additional attacks all benefit from it. Add in some Battlemaster Maneuvers, Paladin Smites, Blade Flourishes... whatever you can think of and you can build a pretty nasty nova build.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I mentioned this to my DM who also confirmed it. I also promised that this would be one of those 'I only use this when we absolutely, positively, need to make something dead fast!' things and that I wouldn't do it for every fight. I suspect that he doesn't believe me as his response was 'Uh huh...okay...sure.'
I likely won't build this as it takes forever to come online and I'd be giving up tons of things from each class...but it's fun to dream. Maybe for a one-shot where we start at level 12 or something.
I will say that it's actually kind of hard to Surprise enemies on a regular basis... it's rare to know where the enemy is going to be enough to plan for it, and also the more people in your team the more likely you are to have at least one person roll below the enemy's passive perception. I think, for a well-known example... the first series of Critical Role had an Assassin Rogue as one of the main characters, and he actually used his assassinate auto-critical like... twice in the whole series? Maybe a few more than that, but it was a pretty long-running series and he barely got to use that feature.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
As powerful as this is surprise is already a huge advantage. So this is something that helps you crush an encounter that would already be easier than normal. And spells like Alarm become the bane of your existence.
Still, I can see something like this being really fun in a Hitman style one shot.
I remember one of those because he kept adding stuff and FINALLY the guy he'd jumped died but yeah, that's why this wouldn't happen every fight. Still...a V. Human with Sharpshooter doing this even once a campaign would make for the most epic of stories. I'm fiddling with building one now and it's not as bad as I thought it would be early on. Sure, you don't start to get into the good stuff until level 6-7 but even so, you're no slouch.
I came here because I built a bugbear open hand monk and wanted to know if I got the bugbears 2D6 surprise attack damage on all 4 of his attacks first round or just the 1st one?
I think he would because all those attacks are happening while the target is surprised.
The Bugbear's Surprise Attacks feature just requires that the target you hit hasn't taken a turn yet, not that it is surprised. And you are correct, it doesn't have any language like "once per turn" so it applies to all such attacks.
So, take Alert and you'll get this a LOT!
Same question