Hi, so my question is 'Does a Dhamphir's level 3 Spider Climb feature carry over if they are a Druid and use wild shape to become, say, a wolf?' The relevant info regarding this is within the wild shape description and says:
"You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense."
So it's not a sense obviously but where it says 'physically capable', does that just mean if the creature is able to walk, spider climb will still work or does it mean the creature you become would have to have spider climb for it to carry over? I feel like it should just work regardless of what animal you become (that can walk) since it doesnt seem you'd have to put this kind of restriction on other race/class features. But i'm still unsure since you do take on this creatures movement speed so maybe not being able to use spider climb is somehow connected to that? I figure this might be one of them 'leave it up to the dm to decide' sorta questions but i wanted to see if anyone could logic me an answer
As you have found the Wild Shape feature provides little specific guidance on what you can and can't keep. This is ultimately something for the DM to decide and you should ask them what their thoughts are.
However, I would say that you can only keep the spider climb racial trait of the form you assumed also has spider climb. Essential I would use the features and movement speeds of the beast form to inform me what that form is physically capable of doing.
Hi, so my question is 'Does a Dhamphir's level 3 Spider Climb feature carry over if they are a Druid and use wild shape to become, say, a wolf?' The relevant info regarding this is within the wild shape description and says:
"You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense."
So it's not a sense obviously but where it says 'physically capable', does that just mean if the creature is able to walk, spider climb will still work or does it mean the creature you become would have to have spider climb for it to carry over? I feel like it should just work regardless of what animal you become (that can walk) since it doesnt seem you'd have to put this kind of restriction on other race/class features. But i'm still unsure since you do take on this creatures movement speed so maybe not being able to use spider climb is somehow connected to that? I figure this might be one of them 'leave it up to the dm to decide' sorta questions but i wanted to see if anyone could logic me an answer
Thanks in advance.
No, it does not mean “if the creature is able to walk.” It means if the creature has whatever physiology is required to benefit from the feature. For example, if spider climb works due to weird suction things in the feet, you wouldn’t get to keep it in wild shape, because wolves, bears, etc. don’t have that physiology. If spider climb is more magical than physiological (which is likely, since it still works if you’re wearing shoes), then there’s a stronger case for it persisting in wild shape. It’ll ultimately be up to your DM, since it relies on having a solid explanation for how spider climb functions within the fiction of the game.
I dont have a clear answer by the book answer for you but I can make some suggestions and give you some things to think about.
I think it would probably make the Dhampir's spider climb fairly unique if it was allowed because similar racial movement speeds like flying, climbing or swimming are not typically carried over. In the case of flying its often because of an obvious anatomical element like wings but some racial movement speed particularly swimming do not have clear anatomical structures like the Sea elf and Triton. You could categorize it as fantastical v.s anatomical but I think that maybe has a balance issue. Is it really fair to say that the lizard folks swim speed doesn't carry over while the sea elf's does? it would certainly create a bit of a power gap that justified largely by " realism". A similar gap would be created between the Dhampir and Tabaxi. Of course there is the fact that generally speaking being able to turn into swimming and flying creatures is gated in level on the druid. Climbing isn't gated generally isn't gated so you could perhaps say that the druid rules over ride the idea of natural v.s unnatural but that will undermine the dichotomy some what and ultimately ends up, like I said, making the Dhampir unique.
You could also take an all or nothing approach. You could allow all racial movement speeds to carry through or even all racial abilities. It would be chaotic but allowing a player to perform what they already could in humanoid form in beast form is arguably not a huge gain of function. It would however carry over all the balance issues around races into the druids wild shape form for example flying is rather notorious for its combat implications but I don't think wild shape will significantly add to that issue as they could pick other classes and this leads to flying race being banned. Alternatively not allowing any abilities to carry over and just running the straight animal stat blocks is also a good option. This is certainly the simplest and least likely to create conflicts, strangeness or combos as well as avoiding any issues of having to justify some abilities over others.
So the options as I see it are
Allow all racial abilities
Allow no racial abilities
make a determination of physical v magical
Only allow climbing to possibly cross over.
Not all of those a strictly by the rules but they're all consistent. I most likely would go with allowing no racial abilities and movement speeds as this is simple, predictable and within the bounds of what the rules allow even if it doesn't allow everything the rules may allow. Though in a particularly high magic and home brew campaign I might go with allowing all racial abilities even though that does in some minor areas break the rules it does so in a consistent way that are extensions of things that may be allowed. I would be unlikely to make determinations on realism as realism is secondary to balance and can often get sidetracked into long discussions of physics and similar things with no clear answers, I'd also be worried about any system that would give only one race like the Dhampir an advantage that no other race gets.
What they said. Wild shape is weird and vague. Up to DM. Probably, yes.
Basically this. When I DM for druids I let them keep basically any/all abilities. ASI? Sure. Turtle shells? Sure. Only no swim/fly per the wildshape rules themself. And no special senses, again per the wildshape rules. Everything else is "if the new form is physically capable" and in a setting with magic and dragons and shapechanging druids that to me means basically anything is fine. But thats one extreme on a scale.
Some DMs are supervstrict and don't let people keep almost any of their abilities at all. Even if it'd make sense to keep em. Though, most fall probably somewhere in the middle, and handpick abilities they think make sense for the new form to keep and toss the ones they have a problem with.
Super vague. Super DM dependant.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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Hi, so my question is 'Does a Dhamphir's level 3 Spider Climb feature carry over if they are a Druid and use wild shape to become, say, a wolf?'
The relevant info regarding this is within the wild shape description and says:
"You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense."
So it's not a sense obviously but where it says 'physically capable', does that just mean if the creature is able to walk, spider climb will still work or does it mean the creature you become would have to have spider climb for it to carry over?
I feel like it should just work regardless of what animal you become (that can walk) since it doesnt seem you'd have to put this kind of restriction on other race/class features. But i'm still unsure since you do take on this creatures movement speed so maybe not being able to use spider climb is somehow connected to that?
I figure this might be one of them 'leave it up to the dm to decide' sorta questions but i wanted to see if anyone could logic me an answer
Thanks in advance.
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.
As you have found the Wild Shape feature provides little specific guidance on what you can and can't keep. This is ultimately something for the DM to decide and you should ask them what their thoughts are.
However, I would say that you can only keep the spider climb racial trait of the form you assumed also has spider climb. Essential I would use the features and movement speeds of the beast form to inform me what that form is physically capable of doing.
No, it does not mean “if the creature is able to walk.” It means if the creature has whatever physiology is required to benefit from the feature. For example, if spider climb works due to weird suction things in the feet, you wouldn’t get to keep it in wild shape, because wolves, bears, etc. don’t have that physiology. If spider climb is more magical than physiological (which is likely, since it still works if you’re wearing shoes), then there’s a stronger case for it persisting in wild shape. It’ll ultimately be up to your DM, since it relies on having a solid explanation for how spider climb functions within the fiction of the game.
I dont have a clear answer by the book answer for you but I can make some suggestions and give you some things to think about.
I think it would probably make the Dhampir's spider climb fairly unique if it was allowed because similar racial movement speeds like flying, climbing or swimming are not typically carried over. In the case of flying its often because of an obvious anatomical element like wings but some racial movement speed particularly swimming do not have clear anatomical structures like the Sea elf and Triton. You could categorize it as fantastical v.s anatomical but I think that maybe has a balance issue. Is it really fair to say that the lizard folks swim speed doesn't carry over while the sea elf's does? it would certainly create a bit of a power gap that justified largely by " realism". A similar gap would be created between the Dhampir and Tabaxi. Of course there is the fact that generally speaking being able to turn into swimming and flying creatures is gated in level on the druid. Climbing isn't gated generally isn't gated so you could perhaps say that the druid rules over ride the idea of natural v.s unnatural but that will undermine the dichotomy some what and ultimately ends up, like I said, making the Dhampir unique.
You could also take an all or nothing approach. You could allow all racial movement speeds to carry through or even all racial abilities. It would be chaotic but allowing a player to perform what they already could in humanoid form in beast form is arguably not a huge gain of function. It would however carry over all the balance issues around races into the druids wild shape form for example flying is rather notorious for its combat implications but I don't think wild shape will significantly add to that issue as they could pick other classes and this leads to flying race being banned. Alternatively not allowing any abilities to carry over and just running the straight animal stat blocks is also a good option. This is certainly the simplest and least likely to create conflicts, strangeness or combos as well as avoiding any issues of having to justify some abilities over others.
So the options as I see it are
Not all of those a strictly by the rules but they're all consistent. I most likely would go with allowing no racial abilities and movement speeds as this is simple, predictable and within the bounds of what the rules allow even if it doesn't allow everything the rules may allow. Though in a particularly high magic and home brew campaign I might go with allowing all racial abilities even though that does in some minor areas break the rules it does so in a consistent way that are extensions of things that may be allowed. I would be unlikely to make determinations on realism as realism is secondary to balance and can often get sidetracked into long discussions of physics and similar things with no clear answers, I'd also be worried about any system that would give only one race like the Dhampir an advantage that no other race gets.
What they said. Wild shape is weird and vague. Up to DM. Probably, yes.
Basically this. When I DM for druids I let them keep basically any/all abilities. ASI? Sure. Turtle shells? Sure. Only no swim/fly per the wildshape rules themself. And no special senses, again per the wildshape rules. Everything else is "if the new form is physically capable" and in a setting with magic and dragons and shapechanging druids that to me means basically anything is fine. But thats one extreme on a scale.
Some DMs are supervstrict and don't let people keep almost any of their abilities at all. Even if it'd make sense to keep em. Though, most fall probably somewhere in the middle, and handpick abilities they think make sense for the new form to keep and toss the ones they have a problem with.
Super vague. Super DM dependant.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.