Beginning at 7th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as an ancient red dragon’s fiery breath or an ice storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
But then evocation wizards have this class feature
Starting at 6th level, your damaging cantrips affect even creatures that avoid the brunt of the effect. When a creature succeeds on a saving throw against your cantrip, the creature takes half the cantrip’s damage (if any) but suffers no additional effect from the cantrip.
So how much damage would a rogue take if an evocation wizard hit them with a fire bolt and rolled say 10 damage
1) Fire Bolt is not a saving throw cantrip, so that damage would not be affected by either of these abilities.
2) the rogues ability only works for Dexterity Saving Throws, so there are only 4 damaging cantrips that these two effects might occur at the same time with (acid splash, create bonfire, sacred flame, and sword burst.)
3) with those cantrips, I would rule that the wizards ability is not actually changing the saving throw to a "[DEX} saving throw to take only half damage", it is saying you still take half damage on a DEX saving throw that would normally result in 0 damage (it is adding to the spell effect, not changing it). The actual saving throw itself is still the same as the spell description. So if a wizard with this ability cast acid splash on a rogue with this ability and the rogue succeeded on the save, the rogue would take the half damage per the wizards spell ability.
I guess it is Dm interpretation, I would rule that acid splash cast by an evocation wizard is "an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage" and therefore evasion applies. Though I would allow an evocation wizard to cast the spell "normally" if ther are aware the target has evasion.
I guess it is Dm interpretation, I would rule that acid splash cast by an evocation wizard is "an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage" and therefore evasion applies. Though I would allow an evocation wizard to cast the spell "normally" if ther are aware the target has evasion.
While I stand by my above statement as my primary reasoning, my other felt justification for ruling the opposite way from you is that the wizard ability is supposed to be a boon a subclass that specifically focuses on damaging spells, but against the rogue would be a detriment compared to any other caster casting the same cantrip against the same rogue (as max damage would be at best halved for the evocation wizard). Also, the wizard ability I'm pretty sure is a PC only ability, while Evasion is a PC and creature ability, so ruling my way will more likely always be in the players' collective favor (unless they are going PvP)
So how much damage would a rogue take if an evocation wizard hit them with a fire bolt and rolled say 10 damage
10, unless it has fire resistance, then 5.
To weigh in on the Potent Cantrip discussion. I can see it being ruled either way, but prefer the "spell becomes a save for half spell that makes evasion avoid it completely" ruling.
If i think on rules perspectives, I'd rule in favor of the Rogue's Evation feature as Potent Cantrip turns cantrip spells into effects that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage.
If i think on table perspectives, I'd rule in favor of the player vs NPC.
And if it was PvP arguing one another, i'd cut the apple in half and rule it takes 1/4 damage and suffers no additional effect from the cantrip so that each feature could contribute.
The way I read the Evo feature is that it basically just allows you to treat cantrips like you would treat a levelled spell, which is usually half dmg and no effects when saved, as opposed to cantrips being usually ignored completely with a successful save.
So I'd rule that you just apply Evasion like you would to a levelled spell like Burning Hands.
Yeah, the two features directly contradict each other, so there's no clear answer here. DM's call
That said, one's a 7th-level feature and one's a 6th-level feature, so from that perspective I'd rule Evasion trumps Potent Cantrip. Also, if Evasion is going to work on something like a dragon's breath weapon or ice storm (a 4th-level spell), it shouldn't be less effective against a measly cantrip
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Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So rogues have this class feature
Beginning at 7th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as an ancient red dragon’s fiery breath or an ice storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
But then evocation wizards have this class feature
Starting at 6th level, your damaging cantrips affect even creatures that avoid the brunt of the effect. When a creature succeeds on a saving throw against your cantrip, the creature takes half the cantrip’s damage (if any) but suffers no additional effect from the cantrip.
So how much damage would a rogue take if an evocation wizard hit them with a fire bolt and rolled say 10 damage
No, I don't have too many weapons.
Homebrew: Spells, Magic Items, Feats
So:
1) Fire Bolt is not a saving throw cantrip, so that damage would not be affected by either of these abilities.
2) the rogues ability only works for Dexterity Saving Throws, so there are only 4 damaging cantrips that these two effects might occur at the same time with (acid splash, create bonfire, sacred flame, and sword burst.)
3) with those cantrips, I would rule that the wizards ability is not actually changing the saving throw to a "[DEX} saving throw to take only half damage", it is saying you still take half damage on a DEX saving throw that would normally result in 0 damage (it is adding to the spell effect, not changing it). The actual saving throw itself is still the same as the spell description. So if a wizard with this ability cast acid splash on a rogue with this ability and the rogue succeeded on the save, the rogue would take the half damage per the wizards spell ability.
I guess it is Dm interpretation, I would rule that acid splash cast by an evocation wizard is "an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage" and therefore evasion applies. Though I would allow an evocation wizard to cast the spell "normally" if ther are aware the target has evasion.
While I stand by my above statement as my primary reasoning, my other felt justification for ruling the opposite way from you is that the wizard ability is supposed to be a boon a subclass that specifically focuses on damaging spells, but against the rogue would be a detriment compared to any other caster casting the same cantrip against the same rogue (as max damage would be at best halved for the evocation wizard). Also, the wizard ability I'm pretty sure is a PC only ability, while Evasion is a PC and creature ability, so ruling my way will more likely always be in the players' collective favor (unless they are going PvP)
10, unless it has fire resistance, then 5.
To weigh in on the Potent Cantrip discussion. I can see it being ruled either way, but prefer the "spell becomes a save for half spell that makes evasion avoid it completely" ruling.
And if it was PvP arguing one another, i'd cut the apple in half and rule it takes 1/4 damage and suffers no additional effect from the cantrip so that each feature could contribute.
The way I read the Evo feature is that it basically just allows you to treat cantrips like you would treat a levelled spell, which is usually half dmg and no effects when saved, as opposed to cantrips being usually ignored completely with a successful save.
So I'd rule that you just apply Evasion like you would to a levelled spell like Burning Hands.
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Yeah, the two features directly contradict each other, so there's no clear answer here. DM's call
That said, one's a 7th-level feature and one's a 6th-level feature, so from that perspective I'd rule Evasion trumps Potent Cantrip. Also, if Evasion is going to work on something like a dragon's breath weapon or ice storm (a 4th-level spell), it shouldn't be less effective against a measly cantrip
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Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The Evocation ability is granting half damage on a successful save.
The Evasion ability says that if you would take half damage on a successful save, then you take no damage. So Evasion still works