Just thinking out loud - is there a mechanic which would allow a group to maintain formation / marching order during combat - or at least through the initial round?
Especially when playing online (Roll20) - it just seems that once initiative is rolled, your defensive arrangement either has to break up or the party members just don't move at all. The only mechanic i can see is if every party member took the Ready a Dash as their action on their first turn so that they followed the last person to move. It just seems to me that a group of skilled adventurers would be able to move forward towards a foe as a unit, but the turn based combat system prevents this.
Mmm, Mantle of Inspiration from a Glamour Bard is about the only thing I can think of that allows the entire party to move on a single player's turn. Honestly, scattering during combat is pretty typical; being grouped together makes you better targets for any AoE attacks, and your typical caster is going to want to stay away from the fray. You're not likely to consistently get points where there's any advantage to forming a line or something similar.
Most DMs will allow you to delay your position in the initiative order if you wish. Thus, you can ensure that your party all acts in a block, and the formation can be treated as maintained.
Ah - yeah, I was thinking that might be the only way with the current mechanics; just voluntarily drop back in initiative order until the whole party is one after the other. Didn’t know it was a mechanic some DM’s might use
opponent’s reactions and legendarys might still interfere but for the most part your defenders could stay beside their defendees/ everyone gets to stay in the Pally aura/ no one gets abandoned alone beside a horde
Actually, holding your initiative is not supported in 5e. There is the Ready action, in which case you set conditions to either use an action or move up to your speed using your reaction if the conditions are met. It doesn't come up often because it's generally not advantageous. Plenty of tables do homerule in some variant of holding initiative itself, but it is worth noting that it is not a RAW feature in 5e.
Honestly, everyone attempting to crowd into a paladin's aura is just asking for the whole party to take a few Fireballs to the face, it's not practical to expect a Protection/Interception character to consistently cover more than one other melee character, and if a DM really sets up an encounter where a whole mob creatures can and will surround a single player and they're hitting for more than scratch damage, you either deliberately signed up for a hardcore campaign or that's a major red flag. And it's still better for your squishy characters to just try to keep themselves a good 40+ ft away from the scrum rather than have the whole party huddle up.
This should rarely come up in practice, if ever, that you're still just moving in formation and not yet fighting but initiative has been rolled and you're handling it turn based. This will only really come into play if your DM is mechanically starting combat before actual combat should begin. That's a DM timing issue. Proper combat is a chaotic mess, so in actual combat ain't no one moving in formation and also being as effective as they otherwise would.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Ah - yeah, I was thinking that might be the only way with the current mechanics; just voluntarily drop back in initiative order until the whole party is one after the other. Didn’t know it was a mechanic some DM’s might use
As was said it isn't an actual rule (and I think saying "most DMs" is probably overstating it). It is even actively discouraged by the design team, see the SAC for their answer.
Yeah, D&D combat rules are not designed to simulate anything even close to phalanx or other coordinated combat formations. That's more of a wargame thing than a role-playing game thing.
5E is turn based in essence so the rules don't let all-party action on the same turn. All-party movement is possible during combat if everyone takes the Ready action to move upon the same trigger, but they would only take a reaction together, not an action.
If not then an owl familiar would not automatically get the chance to help distract a foe for a thief sneak attack since the owl familiar gets its own initiative roll. It may never get the opportunity to even help the person its intended to.
I think you can address it somewhat using the side initiative option from the DMG and then allowing the characters (and the monsters) to take all of their turns simultaneously or at least as coordinated as they want to be. Simultaneous turns would be a house rule and the DM/players would need to decide who moves or attacks first in the case of opportunity attacks and similar but it would be workable to get formations and coordinated attacks by using side initiative.
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Just thinking out loud - is there a mechanic which would allow a group to maintain formation / marching order during combat - or at least through the initial round?
Especially when playing online (Roll20) - it just seems that once initiative is rolled, your defensive arrangement either has to break up or the party members just don't move at all. The only mechanic i can see is if every party member took the Ready a Dash as their action on their first turn so that they followed the last person to move. It just seems to me that a group of skilled adventurers would be able to move forward towards a foe as a unit, but the turn based combat system prevents this.
Mmm, Mantle of Inspiration from a Glamour Bard is about the only thing I can think of that allows the entire party to move on a single player's turn. Honestly, scattering during combat is pretty typical; being grouped together makes you better targets for any AoE attacks, and your typical caster is going to want to stay away from the fray. You're not likely to consistently get points where there's any advantage to forming a line or something similar.
Most DMs will allow you to delay your position in the initiative order if you wish. Thus, you can ensure that your party all acts in a block, and the formation can be treated as maintained.
Ah - yeah, I was thinking that might be the only way with the current mechanics; just voluntarily drop back in initiative order until the whole party is one after the other. Didn’t know it was a mechanic some DM’s might use
opponent’s reactions and legendarys might still interfere but for the most part your defenders could stay beside their defendees/ everyone gets to stay in the Pally aura/ no one gets abandoned alone beside a horde
Thanks!
Actually, holding your initiative is not supported in 5e. There is the Ready action, in which case you set conditions to either use an action or move up to your speed using your reaction if the conditions are met. It doesn't come up often because it's generally not advantageous. Plenty of tables do homerule in some variant of holding initiative itself, but it is worth noting that it is not a RAW feature in 5e.
Honestly, everyone attempting to crowd into a paladin's aura is just asking for the whole party to take a few Fireballs to the face, it's not practical to expect a Protection/Interception character to consistently cover more than one other melee character, and if a DM really sets up an encounter where a whole mob creatures can and will surround a single player and they're hitting for more than scratch damage, you either deliberately signed up for a hardcore campaign or that's a major red flag. And it's still better for your squishy characters to just try to keep themselves a good 40+ ft away from the scrum rather than have the whole party huddle up.
This should rarely come up in practice, if ever, that you're still just moving in formation and not yet fighting but initiative has been rolled and you're handling it turn based. This will only really come into play if your DM is mechanically starting combat before actual combat should begin. That's a DM timing issue. Proper combat is a chaotic mess, so in actual combat ain't no one moving in formation and also being as effective as they otherwise would.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
As was said it isn't an actual rule (and I think saying "most DMs" is probably overstating it). It is even actively discouraged by the design team, see the SAC for their answer.
Yeah, D&D combat rules are not designed to simulate anything even close to phalanx or other coordinated combat formations. That's more of a wargame thing than a role-playing game thing.
5E is turn based in essence so the rules don't let all-party action on the same turn. All-party movement is possible during combat if everyone takes the Ready action to move upon the same trigger, but they would only take a reaction together, not an action.
I would allow the characters to hold initiative.
If not then an owl familiar would not automatically get the chance to help distract a foe for a thief sneak attack since the owl familiar gets its own initiative roll. It may never get the opportunity to even help the person its intended to.
In the end it would not effect the fight.
I think you can address it somewhat using the side initiative option from the DMG and then allowing the characters (and the monsters) to take all of their turns simultaneously or at least as coordinated as they want to be. Simultaneous turns would be a house rule and the DM/players would need to decide who moves or attacks first in the case of opportunity attacks and similar but it would be workable to get formations and coordinated attacks by using side initiative.