When a spell, for example, thunderwave lists the range as Self (15-foot cube), its point of origin must necessarily be from one of the cube' face right beside the caster (as illustrated in page 204 of the player's handbook) or a caster can remain in the centre, emanating the spell around him in a cube-shaped way?
The DM at the time allowed me to do the latter, but we were in doubt.
I think the answer is no, at least you couldn't be inside the area of Thunderwave without suffering its effects yourself. A similar spell which covers an area like you described is Thunderclap. Read the difference in its targeting description.
For Thunderwave, imagine you choose a target square to the east of yourself. The wave then spreads north one square and south one square to form a line. That line then sweeps east another two squares, smashing things in its path. The directionality of that linear wave prevents you from being in the centre of the effect. You could choose your own square to be the first target square and then direct the wave in a single direction away from yourself, but then you would be hit by the wave as well. So, Thunderwave is not a nova-shaped spell for when you surrounded, it is a close-range spell for smashing enemies in formation, without hitting anyone on your side of the battle line.
Spells that create cones or lines of effect that originate from you also have a range of self, indicating that the origin point of the spell's effect must be you.
Here's the rules for cubic areas of effect:
Cube
You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube's size is expressed as the length of each side.
A cube's point of origin is not included in the cube's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.
Since Thunderwave has a range of "self", the point of origin is the caster, which must be on the surface of the cube; thus, it's impossible for the caster to be inside the cube.
To put it simply, you create a cube adjacent to your space. The cube can be anywhere relative to your space as long as 1 point on the cube's surface touches your space; it doesn't have to be at ground level, centered on you, aligned to a grid, or placed flat against your space. If any part of the cube overlaps another creature's space, they're affected by the spell.
If you're fighting creatures taller than you, or you're on lower ground, you could choose to create the cube directly above you and hit creatures next to you in every direction.
The rules as written do place the caster outside of the cube, but it is so cool to have a caster surrounded by enemies and just blast outwards in every direction.
For Thunderwave, I advocate for dropping prone and casting it into the 15ft cube above you. This has the additional effect of dealing an additional 1d6 damage as they fall after being launched into the air.
For Thunderwave, I advocate for dropping prone and casting it into the 15ft cube above you. This has the additional effect of dealing an additional 1d6 damage as they fall after being launched into the air.
Thunderwave pushes targets 10 feet away from you; that's not going to be straight up unless you're under them, which can't be the case if you and your targets are all on the ground. They'd get pushed diagonally.
I assume that Thunderwave has Effect B, pushing enemies from the side of the AoE you touch, towards the opposite side. It is worth noting that in this diagram I am using the 5/10 diagonal variant rule for demonstration, because it simplifies B's movement.
You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube's size is expressed as the length of each side.
A cube's point of origin is not included in the cube's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.
Target yourself
Ifa spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you. If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself.
Key points ..
unless you decide otherwise and you can target yourself.
Basically the above interpretation is viewing the cub as a three dimensional object. However you can place a hand on the face of a four dimensional cube on the inside and include yourself in the target area. You just have to deal with the reality you are now a target of the spell and take the damage as written.
The caster can choose to include themselves in the effect and include themselves as a target.
The question is do you have to target self? Targeting does say you can target yourself. It does not say you have to. It is magic after all.
When a spell, for example, thunderwave lists the range as Self (15-foot cube), its point of origin must necessarily be from one of the cube' face right beside the caster (as illustrated in page 204 of the player's handbook) or a caster can remain in the centre, emanating the spell around him in a cube-shaped way?
The DM at the time allowed me to do the latter, but we were in doubt.
~GenlyAi
I think the answer is no, at least you couldn't be inside the area of Thunderwave without suffering its effects yourself. A similar spell which covers an area like you described is Thunderclap. Read the difference in its targeting description.
For Thunderwave, imagine you choose a target square to the east of yourself. The wave then spreads north one square and south one square to form a line. That line then sweeps east another two squares, smashing things in its path. The directionality of that linear wave prevents you from being in the centre of the effect. You could choose your own square to be the first target square and then direct the wave in a single direction away from yourself, but then you would be hit by the wave as well. So, Thunderwave is not a nova-shaped spell for when you surrounded, it is a close-range spell for smashing enemies in formation, without hitting anyone on your side of the battle line.
Makes sense. Thank you! At least I can choose the direction of the cube wave, I believe!
Here's the rules for spells with a range of self:
Here's the rules for cubic areas of effect:
Since Thunderwave has a range of "self", the point of origin is the caster, which must be on the surface of the cube; thus, it's impossible for the caster to be inside the cube.
To put it simply, you create a cube adjacent to your space. The cube can be anywhere relative to your space as long as 1 point on the cube's surface touches your space; it doesn't have to be at ground level, centered on you, aligned to a grid, or placed flat against your space. If any part of the cube overlaps another creature's space, they're affected by the spell.
If you're fighting creatures taller than you, or you're on lower ground, you could choose to create the cube directly above you and hit creatures next to you in every direction.
Cheers!
The rules as written do place the caster outside of the cube, but it is so cool to have a caster surrounded by enemies and just blast outwards in every direction.
We allow it in our games.
For Thunderwave, I advocate for dropping prone and casting it into the 15ft cube above you. This has the additional effect of dealing an additional 1d6 damage as they fall after being launched into the air.
Formatting Tooltips, because I always forget
AoE Initial Effect A Effect B
Position
051015 0510152025 0510152025
A
X X X A X X X X X X X A
I X X X I X X C I X X X C I X X X C
X X X X B X X X X X X X B
B
I assume that Thunderwave has Effect B, pushing enemies from the side of the AoE you touch, towards the opposite side. It is worth noting that in this diagram I am using the 5/10 diagonal variant rule for demonstration, because it simplifies B's movement.
Formatting Tooltips, because I always forget
True, awesome!
Thank you so much folks! :)
Another point, A spell does not effect a space if it does not cover >50%. You cannot clip someone with Thunderwave.
Formatting Tooltips, because I always forget
PH 204
Cube
You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube's size is expressed as the length of each side.
A cube's point of origin is not included in the cube's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.
Target yourself
Ifa spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you. If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself.
Key points ..
unless you decide otherwise and you can target yourself.
Basically the above interpretation is viewing the cub as a three dimensional object. However you can place a hand on the face of a four dimensional cube on the inside and include yourself in the target area. You just have to deal with the reality you are now a target of the spell and take the damage as written.
The caster can choose to include themselves in the effect and include themselves as a target.
The question is do you have to target self? Targeting does say you can target yourself. It does not say you have to. It is magic after all.
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