Surprise and unseen are different things. So yes, you could have both or just one. A fighter charging through a door to make a melee attack might have surprise, but not advantage. The rogue shooting from the shadows could have both.
Your players are incorrect, unless you as the DM rule that they're somehow able to make their attacks in such a way that doesn't put them in view of the enemy.
There's no inherent relationship between surprise and being unseen. Being surprised in no way means you can't spot an enemy who comes out from the bushes to stab you. It just means you can't take a reaction unless you rolled high enough on initiative to have already gone through your turn.
The Game Master makes the ruling if the characters are "unseen". As other posters are pointing out, surprising your foes does not guarantee advantage. The attacker must not be seen by their target when attacking in order to gain the advantage. The Game Master rules if the attacker was hidden or benefiting form a condition/affect that prevented them from being seen by their target.
The players' case will depend upon the scenario, and if their only argument is that they targets were "surprised" then that does not meet the requirement for being unseen during the surprise round.
Being surprised doesn't grant advantage to creatures attacking you, but other circumstances contributing to it might, such as being hidden when doing so.
Being surprised also doesn't grant disadvantage to saving throws as explained in Sage Advice Compendium
If a wizard casts a spell like fireball during a surprise round, do the enemies get disadvantage on their saving throw? Being surprised has no effect on saves. If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends (PH, 189).
Being unseen for advantage means the character needs to be unseen/hidden at the moment the roll is made, which is generally impossible for melee characters unless there’s an environmental condition like darkness in play and the attacker has darkvision while the target doesn’t. If you rush out from the brush to attack someone, you’re no longer unseen once you’re out of the brush. Now, a hidden character making a ranged attack can much more easily attack from a hidden position, although after the attack you’re no longer hidden.
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Question regarding RAW on Surprise:
Does gaining surprise on your foes grant advantage on the attacks in the first round of combat?
The RAW that I see make no mention of advantage, but players are making the case for advantage due to being unseen
Thanks
Surprise and unseen are different things. So yes, you could have both or just one. A fighter charging through a door to make a melee attack might have surprise, but not advantage. The rogue shooting from the shadows could have both.
Your players are incorrect, unless you as the DM rule that they're somehow able to make their attacks in such a way that doesn't put them in view of the enemy.
There's no inherent relationship between surprise and being unseen. Being surprised in no way means you can't spot an enemy who comes out from the bushes to stab you. It just means you can't take a reaction unless you rolled high enough on initiative to have already gone through your turn.
The Game Master makes the ruling if the characters are "unseen". As other posters are pointing out, surprising your foes does not guarantee advantage. The attacker must not be seen by their target when attacking in order to gain the advantage. The Game Master rules if the attacker was hidden or benefiting form a condition/affect that prevented them from being seen by their target.
The players' case will depend upon the scenario, and if their only argument is that they targets were "surprised" then that does not meet the requirement for being unseen during the surprise round.
Being surprised doesn't grant advantage to creatures attacking you, but other circumstances contributing to it might, such as being hidden when doing so.
Being surprised also doesn't grant disadvantage to saving throws as explained in Sage Advice Compendium
Being unseen for advantage means the character needs to be unseen/hidden at the moment the roll is made, which is generally impossible for melee characters unless there’s an environmental condition like darkness in play and the attacker has darkvision while the target doesn’t. If you rush out from the brush to attack someone, you’re no longer unseen once you’re out of the brush. Now, a hidden character making a ranged attack can much more easily attack from a hidden position, although after the attack you’re no longer hidden.