Any thoughts about whether a wizard, whether through an Arcana check or Identify spell or other means, can determine where a Teleportation Circle leads by studying its sigil sequence? Or would knowing the spell be required? Curious to know how people would rule on this.
Any thoughts about whether a wizard, whether through an Arcana check or Identify spell or other means, can determine where a Teleportation Circle leads by studying its sigil sequence? Or would knowing the spell be required? Curious to know how people would rule on this.
I would rule that an individual could make an Arcana Check if they know the spell, but would only get a general idea of where the destination is in a given plane of existence, unless they have seen the symbols and studied them before.
The spell doesn't say the destination of a Teleportation Circle can be determined with a successful Intelligence (Arcana) check or Identify spell which work on magic items rather than spell.
I mean, a permanent circle doesn't have a single fixed destination; its purpose is more to serve as a receiver for incoming teleports. Whether or not a transmitting circle leaves destination info is up to DM's discretion; honestly I probably wouldn't make them readable for that kind of info because part of the point of having an antagonist use one is to go somewhere the party can't readily follow.
If you read the spell teleportation circle, which is used to create permanent teleportation circle, it says a " Each such circle includes a unique sigil sequence--a string of magical runes arranged in a particular pattern. "
Those sigils are the circles sigils. The sigils needed to get to that circle. The one you are starting in. The destination sigils disappear with the end of the spell.
From the spell the only benefit that a permanent circle gives is that you do not need to draw a circle on the ground when teleporting with the teleportation circle spell again. It also increases your chance of success when using the Teleport spell if you know the destination sigils.
They are addresses for that location. Visible to everyone who can see the circle.
Every good Wizard will write down every location sigil sequence he could find even if he does not know the spells to use them yet. There should be whole collections of them in good libraries around the world. They might not all work though and there could be hundreds that are lost or just not known of anymore that still work.
When using the spell to create a portal to a permanent circle, you must draw the address (sigil sequence) of the destination.
If you cast the spell in the same place every year a new permanent circle is created, but the spell does not say anything about how its new address is generated. Each of those castings must go to some destination, but nothing says all the castings have to go to the same destination. Presumably the magic of the spell generates the new sigil sequence for this new permanent circle.
The spell doesn't say if the creation of the new circle physically marks the ground. The second paragraph uses "inscribed" but doesn't make it clear if the temples inscibed the sigils on the ground where the circle is or the spell did it for them. It doesn't even say if teleportation circles are visible or not. I guess there has to be some visibility of the new sigil sequence, otherwise the mage who made the last casting wouldn't know the sigil sequence of their new permanent circle.
The sigil sequences themselves are fairly short (you can memorise them in a minute, and draw them in under a minute). I think of them as phone numbers, web addresses, IP addresses, something like that.
In my games the sigils are generated by magic itself and are effectively random. If a mage finds a sigil sequence in a dusty old tome, the only way to determine where it is located is to cast the spell and step through. The usual divination features will all apply, however (aid, commune, contact other plane, etc).
The destination sigils change with each casting but the source sigils stay the same and get inscribed into the circle when it is cast permanently.
Part of learning the spell is that you learn how to "address" each area. If the sigils changed with each casting each new caster would get lost. Or sigils are not needed at all.
Sort of like the show Stargate. you need to know your start and destination sigils.
I’m not sure a permanent circle bypasses the material cost. Literally all the spell says is that permanent circles are the endpoints of the spell.
It also doesn’t say anything about what happens to the circle you drew.
The material for the spell is only used up and lost when the final casting is completed to make it permanent. Until then is saved.
There’s nothing in the spell’s description to support that supposition. The description only says that repeatedly casting the spell in the same place creates a permanent circle, and permanent circles are only described as target points for the spell.
I’m not sure a permanent circle bypasses the material cost. Literally all the spell says is that permanent circles are the endpoints of the spell.
It also doesn’t say anything about what happens to the circle you drew.
The material for the spell is only used up and lost when the final casting is completed to make it permanent. Until then is saved.
Not correct. You're thinking of magic item crafting. This doesn't fall under that and the only rulings are those in the spell description. The only difference between casting everyday for making a permanent circle and normal casting for traversal is that when making a permanent one you don't need to actually teleport when doing your daily casts.
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Permanent Teleportation Circles which are RECEIVERS. The symbols are there to let you know how to go TO the circle. They do not send you to a specific location.
The spell Teleportation Circle, which does two things, a) send you to an existing Permanent Teleportation Circle and/or b) cast it in the same spot each day for a year then it creates a Permanent Teleportation Circle in that new location (and/or send you to another pre-existing Permanent Teleportation Circle.
The symbols you see always indicate the current location you are in before you teleport.
RAW, we don't know anything about what the symbols used when teleporting with the spell mean, because the description doesn't say. Anything else is flavor or DM fiat. The only rules regarding symbols in the spell is that if you study a permanent circle for 1 minute, you now know its address and can teleport to it with an appropriate spell.
Thanks your description helps me better understand how the casting and sigils can work -- I like the idea that a wizard could seek out sigil sequences in libraries to copy down much like spells.
I tend to think that teleportation circles have different sets of send / receive sigils so that both permanent versions of TPC’s can be created, and intensely guarded.
A circle, whether it is to send or receive, might be semi complete and then abandoned for whatever reason, thus depending on how much is completed might well give little to all detail of where one might end up.
I tend to think that teleportation circles have different sets of send / receive sigils so that both permanent versions of TPC’s can be created, and intensely guarded.
A circle, whether it is to send or receive, might be semi complete and then abandoned for whatever reason, thus depending on how much is completed might well give little to all detail of where one might end up.
The circles created by the spell don't send, only receive. They're not magical gates, just addresses.
The default mode of the spell is "call a cab". If you cast it in the same place for a year, you have established an address that people can now take a cab to, but you still need to call the cab to leave there.
I tend to think that teleportation circles have different sets of send / receive sigils so that both permanent versions of TPC’s can be created, and intensely guarded.
A circle, whether it is to send or receive, might be semi complete and then abandoned for whatever reason, thus depending on how much is completed might well give little to all detail of where one might end up.
The circles created by the spell don't send, only receive. They're not magical gates, just addresses.
The default mode of the spell is "call a cab". If you cast it in the same place for a year, you have established an address that people can now take a cab to, but you still need to call the cab to leave there.
That is just it though, if one were to inscribe the unique sigil sequence of a permanent circle elsewhere in a different location on the same plane of existence, what happens?
You scribe the sigils, the materials required are consumed, and you are sent to the nearest unoccupied point close to the center of the permanent circle.
if I do that for a year straight, wouldn’t that make it a permanent “sending” location to the aforementioned “receiving” circle requiring just the spell and need consuming material just to teleport?
You do not get to choose the sigils. They are determined by the location. You learn the sigils of other locations and use them when casting the spell, but when the spell creates a permanent circle it does NOT inscribe the sigils you used to cast the spell, instead it creates it's own based on the location
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Any thoughts about whether a wizard, whether through an Arcana check or Identify spell or other means, can determine where a Teleportation Circle leads by studying its sigil sequence? Or would knowing the spell be required? Curious to know how people would rule on this.
I would rule that an individual could make an Arcana Check if they know the spell, but would only get a general idea of where the destination is in a given plane of existence, unless they have seen the symbols and studied them before.
The spell doesn't say the destination of a Teleportation Circle can be determined with a successful Intelligence (Arcana) check or Identify spell which work on magic items rather than spell.
Of course the DM can always make it possible.
I mean, a permanent circle doesn't have a single fixed destination; its purpose is more to serve as a receiver for incoming teleports. Whether or not a transmitting circle leaves destination info is up to DM's discretion; honestly I probably wouldn't make them readable for that kind of info because part of the point of having an antagonist use one is to go somewhere the party can't readily follow.
If you read the spell teleportation circle, which is used to create permanent teleportation circle, it says a " Each such circle includes a unique sigil sequence--a string of magical runes arranged in a particular pattern. "
Those sigils are the circles sigils. The sigils needed to get to that circle. The one you are starting in. The destination sigils disappear with the end of the spell.
From the spell the only benefit that a permanent circle gives is that you do not need to draw a circle on the ground when teleporting with the teleportation circle spell again.
It also increases your chance of success when using the Teleport spell if you know the destination sigils.
They are addresses for that location. Visible to everyone who can see the circle.
Every good Wizard will write down every location sigil sequence he could find even if he does not know the spells to use them yet. There should be whole collections of them in good libraries around the world. They might not all work though and there could be hundreds that are lost or just not known of anymore that still work.
I’m not sure a permanent circle bypasses the material cost. Literally all the spell says is that permanent circles are the endpoints of the spell.
It also doesn’t say anything about what happens to the circle you drew.
When using the spell to create a portal to a permanent circle, you must draw the address (sigil sequence) of the destination.
If you cast the spell in the same place every year a new permanent circle is created, but the spell does not say anything about how its new address is generated. Each of those castings must go to some destination, but nothing says all the castings have to go to the same destination. Presumably the magic of the spell generates the new sigil sequence for this new permanent circle.
The spell doesn't say if the creation of the new circle physically marks the ground. The second paragraph uses "inscribed" but doesn't make it clear if the temples inscibed the sigils on the ground where the circle is or the spell did it for them. It doesn't even say if teleportation circles are visible or not. I guess there has to be some visibility of the new sigil sequence, otherwise the mage who made the last casting wouldn't know the sigil sequence of their new permanent circle.
The sigil sequences themselves are fairly short (you can memorise them in a minute, and draw them in under a minute). I think of them as phone numbers, web addresses, IP addresses, something like that.
In my games the sigils are generated by magic itself and are effectively random. If a mage finds a sigil sequence in a dusty old tome, the only way to determine where it is located is to cast the spell and step through. The usual divination features will all apply, however (aid, commune, contact other plane, etc).
The material for the spell is only used up and lost when the final casting is completed to make it permanent. Until then is saved.
The destination sigils change with each casting but the source sigils stay the same and get inscribed into the circle when it is cast permanently.
Part of learning the spell is that you learn how to "address" each area. If the sigils changed with each casting each new caster would get lost. Or sigils are not needed at all.
Sort of like the show Stargate. you need to know your start and destination sigils.
There’s nothing in the spell’s description to support that supposition. The description only says that repeatedly casting the spell in the same place creates a permanent circle, and permanent circles are only described as target points for the spell.
Not correct. You're thinking of magic item crafting. This doesn't fall under that and the only rulings are those in the spell description. The only difference between casting everyday for making a permanent circle and normal casting for traversal is that when making a permanent one you don't need to actually teleport when doing your daily casts.
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There are two separate things.
Permanent Teleportation Circles which are RECEIVERS. The symbols are there to let you know how to go TO the circle. They do not send you to a specific location.
The spell Teleportation Circle, which does two things, a) send you to an existing Permanent Teleportation Circle and/or b) cast it in the same spot each day for a year then it creates a Permanent Teleportation Circle in that new location (and/or send you to another pre-existing Permanent Teleportation Circle.
The symbols you see always indicate the current location you are in before you teleport.
RAW, we don't know anything about what the symbols used when teleporting with the spell mean, because the description doesn't say. Anything else is flavor or DM fiat. The only rules regarding symbols in the spell is that if you study a permanent circle for 1 minute, you now know its address and can teleport to it with an appropriate spell.
Sorry the consume on last casting is from a different spell.
Thanks your description helps me better understand how the casting and sigils can work -- I like the idea that a wizard could seek out sigil sequences in libraries to copy down much like spells.
Well trained wizards never walk from major town to major town/ they use any public teleport circle.
I tend to think that teleportation circles have different sets of send / receive sigils so that both permanent versions of TPC’s can be created, and intensely guarded.
A circle, whether it is to send or receive, might be semi complete and then abandoned for whatever reason, thus depending on how much is completed might well give little to all detail of where one might end up.
The circles created by the spell don't send, only receive. They're not magical gates, just addresses.
The default mode of the spell is "call a cab". If you cast it in the same place for a year, you have established an address that people can now take a cab to, but you still need to call the cab to leave there.
That is just it though, if one were to inscribe the unique sigil sequence of a permanent circle elsewhere in a different location on the same plane of existence, what happens?
You scribe the sigils, the materials required are consumed, and you are sent to the nearest unoccupied point close to the center of the permanent circle.
if I do that for a year straight, wouldn’t that make it a permanent “sending” location to the aforementioned “receiving” circle requiring just the spell and need consuming material just to teleport?
You do not get to choose the sigils. They are determined by the location. You learn the sigils of other locations and use them when casting the spell, but when the spell creates a permanent circle it does NOT inscribe the sigils you used to cast the spell, instead it creates it's own based on the location